I am not a purist, change my mind.

Classic Discussion
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07/04/2018 13:26Posted by Gantor598C5B
Another moron with nothing to contribute, lol "Troll infiltrator" grow up idiot everyone doesn't have to agree with you to be a "true" fan.


Actually I would argue that you're the one with nothing to contribute.

There is nothing that needs changing or tweaking in Vanilla WoW except bug fixes and if you even think that something needs to be changed you are absolutely NOT a fan of Vanilla WoW because Vanilla WoW is a time capsule and should be kept as it was back then.

No ifs, no buts. That's that. And if you don't like it you know what you can do.
Thats your opinion and you've said nothing to back it up other than "Waaaa waaa waaaa this is what i want waaa waaa waaa"

I played Vanilla from day one, stopped at Wrath and never went back to the game because it got terrible. Im not sure im a "Fan" of anything cause i think blind obsession with things like video games is a bit dumb but i know what Vanilla WoW was and i know what i would like from a re-release of it.

You will never get a true recreation of the original experience, you are chasing a ghost. Apart from all the technical differences today everyone's idea of where in Vanilla was "true" WoW is different and my point that if it starts at 1.12 the game will be a faceroll is valid. You cannot ever have the experience we had back in the day in some magical time capsule forever it was an organic thing that evolved over time. You could try to recreate the patch progression i guess but then what? You will just get to 1.12 eventually and people who like the older PvP are screwed it will never be the same as it was and i dont think you even understand why it was so great in the first place if you think the changes we are talking about would "ruin" it.
07/04/2018 13:43Posted by Gantor598C5B
Thats your opinion and you've said nothing to back it up other than "Waaaa waaa waaaa this is what i want waaa waaa waaa"

I played Vanilla from day one, stopped at Wrath and never went back to the game because it got terrible. Im not sure im a "Fan" of anything cause i think blind obsession with things like video games is a bit dumb but i know what Vanilla WoW was and i know what i would like from a re-release of it.

You will never get a true recreation of the original experience, you are chasing a ghost. Apart from all the technical differences today everyone's idea of where in Vanilla was "true" WoW is different and my point that if it starts at 1.12 the game will be a faceroll is valid. You cannot ever have the experience we had back in the day in some magical time capsule forever it was an organic thing that evolved over time. You could try to recreate the patch progression i guess but then what? You will just get to 1.12 eventually and people who like the older PvP are screwed it will never be the same as it was and i dont think you even understand why it was so great in the first place if you think the changes we are talking about would "ruin" it.


I really don't care about your little stories. NO CHANGES. NONE.
07/04/2018 12:50Posted by Gantor598C5B
07/04/2018 11:52Posted by Flayed
Maybe even some talent tweaks like giving Ret paladins Crusader Strike as their 31 point talent, so they don't feel like the doofy, awkward class that just stands there doing nothing while waiting for auto attacks.


To be honest i think the actual class balance wasn't as bad as a lot of people think by the time we got to 1.12 and im not sure i would want much in the way of mechanical changes to the gameplay. I really think liek 80% of the problems hybrid classes and offspecs faced was itemization and not the class itself (it wasn't perfect but not as bad as folks remember). Like i mentioned in my OP if you wanted to be a tank Druid you had to use a lvl49 BoE blue staff which was absurd, Druid tanks couldn't hit the defense cap so they could never ever be used in a raid. This is why i think something like Heroics is a nice idea because it opens up a massive avenue for new items for all classes and builds with almost no mechanical changes to the game.


Me wanting Paladins to have 31 point Crusader Strike was less about changing class balance and more about me feeling that a melee class which lacks any instant melee attack just straight up sucks to play. Paladins actually had Crusader Strike in pre-release, but for some reason it was removed.
Personally I think that one change would just make Ret so much more satisfying to play.
Obviously you'd have to change other stuff to balance, but it's not gonna happen regardless, so there's no harm talking about it.
07/04/2018 13:45Posted by Vezran
I really don't care about your little stories. NO CHANGES. NONE.


Ok little baby, adults are having a chat take your tantrum elsewhere you have nothing interesting to say.

07/04/2018 13:47Posted by Flayed
Me wanting Paladins to have 31 point Crusader Strike was less about changing class balance and more about me feeling that a melee class which lacks any instant melee attack just straight up sucks to play. Paladins actually had Crusader Strike in pre-release, but for some reason it was removed.
Personally I think that one change would just make Ret so much more satisfying to play.
Obviously you'd have to change other stuff to balance, but it's not gonna happen regardless, so there's no harm talking about it.


Yeh i kinda agree and there are lots of little class changes like that which could be nice but this is an area where im more in line with the purist types. Once you start making changes to the class mechanics even small ones it can have huge rippling effects, i would advocate extreme caution with mechanical changes to the game and class balance. Going down that path could change how the game "Feels" is that makes sense?
07/04/2018 12:59Posted by Gantor598C5B
07/04/2018 12:47Posted by Shogath
Maybe it should be possible to mod Vanilla in the same way that you could do with Warcraft 2 and 3 and Starcraft. (and im not talking addons here)

That way people could get creative and maybe put a new lease of life on MMORPG's.

There's probably all kinds of stuff wrong with this but it's just a thought.


Im not sure how you could mod a game beyond your own UI/graphics without effecting everyone elses game experience.
I mean like you would be able to make your own modded gameclient and host that on a server.

Kind of (or not) like how League of Legends was based on something out of Warcraft 3 (iirc).

When i see all the different variations people think of based on Vanilla Warcraft i think there might be some nice spin offs in there.
07/04/2018 14:04Posted by Shogath
I mean like you would be able to make your own modded gameclient and host that on a server.

Kind of (or not) like how League of Legends was based on something out of Warcraft 3 (iirc).

When i see all the different variations people think of based on Vanilla Warcraft i think there might be some nice spin offs in there.


Ahh i see what you mean, yeh that would be cool but it would be hard to attract enough players into a modded WoW to make it worth the work. Also isnt that already happening with private servers anyway? Ive never delved much into that world but as far as i understand it they have there own versions of the game client and some of them do make all sorts of changes ect to the game dont they?
07/04/2018 14:11Posted by Gantor598C5B
07/04/2018 14:04Posted by Shogath
I mean like you would be able to make your own modded gameclient and host that on a server.

Kind of (or not) like how League of Legends was based on something out of Warcraft 3 (iirc).

When i see all the different variations people think of based on Vanilla Warcraft i think there might be some nice spin offs in there.


Ahh i see what you mean, yeh that would be cool but it would be hard to attract enough players into a modded WoW to make it worth the work. Also isnt that already happening with private servers anyway? Ive never delved much into that world but as far as i understand it they have there own versions of the game client and some of them do make all sorts of changes ect to the game dont they?
Worth of it depends on how much someone wants to spend his/her time on it. Even if only a handfull of people come to your customized server you'd be playing your own design. And it already works (sort of) on Pservers.

Current Private servers seems more an emulated, gaffer tape approach. For real modding to work Blizzard would have to make the source available under some licence after which people could get cracking. Probably the current Pserver folks would jump in first.

But no i don't have a clue how that work currently and if it would even be possible.

I just think of how you were able to make your own maps and scripts in WC2 and 3 and wondered if something similar would be possible with WoW Vanilla.
I do remember back in the day during Vanilla thinking the game could be modded into a cool 4 player co-op or Single player experience. Theres a huge world there to toy with could kinda gate areas to make progression more methodical, redesign a lot of quests ect and re tune all the Instance/Raid content for solo or small group play.

Something like that could be awesome, fink wouldnt be so impressive now that we have other very impressive open world RPGs on the market tho.
07/04/2018 14:26Posted by Gantor598C5B
I do remember back in the day during Vanilla thinking the game could be modded into a cool 4 player co-op or Single player experience.
Yeah, something like that :)
07/04/2018 14:26Posted by Gantor598C5B
Theres a huge world there to toy with could kinda gate areas to make progression more methodical,
Instanced zones, like Guild Wars 2.
07/04/2018 14:26Posted by Gantor598C5B
fink wouldnt be so impressive now that we have other very impressive open world RPGs on the market tho.
Doesn't have to be impressive in the sense that it should outdo current games. If it's fun enough people will play it anyway.
Yeh your right if it was fun people would play it and it could be made into a great co-op game which would give it something things like Skyrim dont have. I remember talking about modding it into a single player game loads back in the day and everyone in my guild thought i was an idiot for suggesting it :P.

Its a shame Blizz will never release the Source Code :(. Thats always been a huge problem for the PServer community, theres lots of little under the hood differences because they have been forced to use guesswork on loads of the game mechanics. No private server is really authentic, its never been possible to do that without some support from Blizz.
If they made first a exact remake of vanilla, then they could eventually add new servers for progression through new patches or expansions. And you could then move to those new progression servers, but ofc not the other way, it would be a one-way ticket. This way, vanilla people like my self would get what we want, and eventually it would cater to the ones who want different experience built upon classic.

I think making classic with changes to what vanilla wow was like would be a big mistake, then it is better to make new servers entirely for that purpose and still keep true vanilla servers as that is in my mind the true heritage of world and warcraft.
07/04/2018 15:32Posted by Åóðinn
If they made first a exact remake of vanilla, then they could eventually add new servers for progression through new patches or expansions. And you could then move to those new progression servers, but ofc not the other way, it would be a one-way ticket. This way, vanilla people like my self would get what we want, and eventually it would cater to the ones who want different experience built upon classic.

I think making classic with changes to what vanilla wow was like would be a big mistake, then it is better to make new servers entirely for that purpose and still keep true vanilla servers as that is in my mind the true heritage of world and warcraft.


Part of the point i have been trying to make is that you will never get an authentic "Classic" experience no matter what you do, thats an illusion. Is 1.0 real vanilla or 1.7? lots of people think 1.12 is the real deal but it was a very different game then than it was when it was released and this doesn't even take into account the various technical differences between then and now. Trying to recreate some sort of patch progression seems like madness and doesn't fully solve the problem either, we cant go back but we can have a great game that re captures the "Feel" of classic WoW.
07/04/2018 13:53Posted by Gantor598C5B
Yeh i kinda agree and there are lots of little class changes like that which could be nice but this is an area where im more in line with the purist types. Once you start making changes to the class mechanics even small ones it can have huge rippling effects, i would advocate extreme caution with mechanical changes to the game and class balance. Going down that path could change how the game "Feels" is that makes sense?


Yep, I get that point. I think one of the things people like about classic is that classes genuinely feel unique, with meaningful differences. As opposed to today where all classes are completely homogenised, with the same abilities under different names and visuals.
I still absolutely hate not having at least one instant attack on a melee class though.

Warrior has Mortal Strike/Bloodthirst as their main damaging instants alongside others.
Rogue has too many to bother naming.
Feral druid has loads too.
Enhancement even has Stormstrike, and they are primarily a caster class with 2/3 specs.
Hell, even Hunters, a RANGED class have instant melee attacks...

Feels bad man, lol.
I would play a Paladin with that one change, but without it there's just no way. It's so boring to just stand there like a dummy waiting 3 seconds for an auto attack.
I miss hunters having an actual rotation that took skill to master, you had to work hard to make your class shine back then. Im no expert on Paladins because i never really played one, no instant casts does kinda suck but retri pallies did seem to do well in PvP.
07/04/2018 19:37Posted by Gantor598C5B
I miss hunters having an actual rotation that took skill to master, you had to work hard to make your class shine back then. Im no expert on Paladins because i never really played one, no instant casts does kinda suck but retri pallies did seem to do well in PvP.


Yeah, like I said, it wasn't an issue of balance but one of the general feel and enjoyment of playing the class. Obviously that's subjective, but I think it's a legitimate point. Paladins are the only melee spec in the game without one.
You basically just ran after people and tried to stay in melee range, occasionally refreshing Seal of Command after using a Judgement. It was by far the most boring class to play, imo.
Yeah, leveling paladin it was like Judgement and Seal again, rest of damage was done by auto-attack.
Enhancement shaman was just a little bit better. Untill level 40 it's like auto-attack + flame/earth shock and maybe searing totem. After 40 you had finally your only melee strike ability..

I am no big fan of non-stop button spam we have in legion, however something more than watching your toon doing aa's all time is nice ^.^
08/04/2018 01:49Posted by Mealstorm
Yeah, leveling paladin it was like Judgement and Seal again, rest of damage was done by auto-attack.
Enhancement shaman was just a little bit better. Untill level 40 it's like auto-attack + flame/earth shock and maybe searing totem. After 40 you had finally your only melee strike ability..

I am no big fan of non-stop button spam we have in legion, however something more than watching your toon doing aa's all time is nice ^.^


Agreed. I think the current games takes it too far. There's a pretty big margin between vanilla Paladin style of sitting there like a plank and the current style of non-stop keyboard mashing.
31 point Crusader Strike is just one of a few things on my "Never Going to Happen" wishlist, lol.
Ya never know, they might do some slight class re balancing after its out.
Ok little baby, adults are having a chat take your tantrum elsewhere you have nothing interesting to say.


Did you make a macro out of that?

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