The difference between DPS and DMG meters

Dungeons & Raids
I just don't get it: someone can be first on dmg done, but only third or even fourth on dps. What am i missing here? i mean if you are first on dps you should also be first on dmg done, right? If you are eleventh on dps you should also be eleventh on dmg done.
Yesterday in LFR i ended on fifth place on my dmg matters but when i checked dps, i was on eight place. How is this possible? I would understand if i would die in the middle of the fight and dps will remain almost the the same while dmg would drop significantly, but that was not the case.
So, my question is: what is more important: dps or dmg meters? I guess it is dmg?
There're some damage meters like recount that have this "feature" that they show you your "active DPS" values. Meaning that the time not doing anything is ignored. You could burst really hard at start of fight, get insane active DPS and then just do nothing for the rest of the fight. You'd be at the top of this "active DPS", but in reality did nothing worth mentioning.

DPS in traditional sense and damage are both values that can be converted to other just by multiplying with fight length, or divided by fight length. Use skada or details! addon instead of recount.
If order of people differs between damage and DPS meters, it means that your meter is configured to calculate DPS based on active time, rather than time in combat. This means that the best way to do great DPS is to: a) pop your cooldowns and do tons of damage, b) do nothing *at all* until your cooldowns are up again.

This is also why combat log pages use combat time, not active time to calculate DPS for rankings and stuff.

I'm pretty sure Details! uses combat time by default just like logs. I don't remember how it is with Skada, and I never could stomach Recount and it's insistence on having a single window.
13/04/2018 13:16Posted by Cendi
There're some damage meters like recount that have this "feature" that they show you your "active DPS" values. Meaning that the time not doing anything is ignored.

Not sure about other meters but in Details this is configurable. I have it configured to calculate "active DPS" because it's still an useful information, e.g. to roughly gauge potential for those who died prematurely. Outside of that use, I rely on total Damage Done more.
High DPS but low damage usualy means they failed at mechanics and died.
13/04/2018 21:11Posted by Mukuro
to roughly gauge potential for those who died prematurely

I feel like this would be more misleading than helpful. One thing is how bursty many (most?) specs are, which means that their actual effective DPS heavily depends on timings. The other thing is how useful is that "potential" damage if they're going to die to mechanics?
16/04/2018 11:00Posted by Kalinte
The other thing is how useful is that "potential" damage if they're going to die to mechanics?
If you're going to kick people for dying to mechanics anyway there's no need to even look at the damage meter, is there. If not, you can use the active time based DPS to see if they seem to be doing good damage and might be worth keeping, or might be worth rezzing if the fight has gone on for long and you regained a CR charge. Or, you know, they might not have died to their own fails.
13/04/2018 13:16Posted by Kalinte
This means that the best way to do great DPS is to: a) pop your cooldowns and do tons of damage, b) do nothing *at all* until your cooldowns are up again.
Correct, and we both know people don't do this.
If you're going to kick people for dying to mechanics anyway there's no need to even look at the damage meter,


Nobody said anything about kicking people (I think).
I think what the guy you quoted meant is that let’s say you are pushing a timer (enrage, Argus P1 before 8th rage ...).

If you miss your timer and you have one person dead you may try to estimate what would have happened if the person was alive.
It’s not about kicking, it’s qbout gauging if the current tact / comp have a chance to beat the thing with good play or if it’s just a waste’ of time.
In the second once people are used to mechanic you just call it and come back with an other comp / tact / reset.
18/04/2018 06:50Posted by Predlùlz
If you miss your timer and you have one person dead you may try to estimate what would have happened if the person was alive.
Precisely, that's one thing it's good for. Great for. But Kalinte was calling it misleading.
It is potentially misleading unless you really know what you're doing, and in my experience most people don't. If they have to ask about difference between active and effective DPS, they definitely don't (yet?).

Imagine a MM hunter dying early in the CD cycle vs an affliction lock. MM hunter will show as having much higher active DPS, but that's just because of the bursty nature of the spec, whereas the warlock might actually do much more damage in the end.

In this situation ressing the hunter later on might be a good idea because of the burst being available again, but that only works if they died early in the CD cycle. If they died late, their active DPS might be lower than the warlock one, but ressing them might actually be more beneficial, because they will be able to burst more before the fight ends, contributing more throughout the rest of the fight (even outside of MM hunter's execute mechanic).

(This is particularly interesting consideration, if you think how dots ticking during bridge phase on Imonar will affect warlock's active DPS vs the hunter that will be considered inactive during that time.)

18/04/2018 02:37Posted by Bloodglass
Correct, and we both know people don't do this.

BTW, quoting prior unrelated post, out of context, in response to a different one in this way just looks disingenous. Additionally, I do *not* know that people don't do that. I'm happy to hear that your log analyses showed that they don't. That's how you figured it out, right?

To be sure, I'm not your cynical, bitter random person that goes around claiming everyone AFKs and so on and so forth. But I don't make assumptions in the other direction either.
Do you PUG?

Most assuredly PUG's would have way more problems handling strict DPS than active DPS on a meter. With active DPS you can roughly see if someone was sucking before they died or not. You are correct that it has problems, especially with DoT's on bosses like Imonar/KJ. But it overall allows better judgment calls than strict DPS.

And for the second one I will repeat my opening question. Why would anyone do it? You won't look good on logs, because as you said, logs use strict DPS. You may look good on DPS, but you will not look good on damage. And people look at damage primarily. DPS is used as a redeeming metric if you died. Certainly some give DPS undue weight but I don't think even those players would keep you in the raid if you did something as silly as only DPS during your cooldowns. Not a PUG and definitely not a guild.

"Hey Bloodglass, you did some really nice DPS but your damage is awful. And you handled mechanics so you can't have been DC'd. Are you some kind of super moron? Get out of my raid."
13/04/2018 13:16Posted by Kalinte

I'm pretty sure Details! uses combat time by default just like logs. I don't remember how it is with Skada, and I never could stomach Recount and it's insistence on having a single window.

I dont understand why this isn't the default behavior for all damage meters... it might help at least sone people to understand just how bad it is to die while tunneling for DPS.
13/04/2018 12:42Posted by Onu
So, my question is: what is more important: dps or dmg meters? I guess it is dmg?


As a general rule I'd take damage over dps. That said, when you want to start analysing meters there are plenty of other factors to take into consideration, damage done to targets so you can tell who's effectively killing any add spawns or not, interupts so you know who's actually interupting important mechanics. Even damage taken can be helpful to see who's avoiding damage/using their defensives properly.

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