False dichotomy

Classic Discussion
If you want X feature added, it's true you don't necessarily want Legion or BfA. But it is equally true that you don't want Classic either. The 10+ years people asked for Classic and finally got them, they were asking for Classic, not something else. When you want something different from both Classic and Legion/BfA, perhaps the way to go would be to go to the General forums and as there, not ask for Classic to be perverted according to your random specifications.
29/03/2018 08:54Posted by Dumac
X-realm BGs were added in vanilla. Learn your history first, you dead horse-beater.

We know this wont be implemented simply cus of the honor system.

Anything else, miss purist?
Op: I AM FOR CHANGE, idgaf what it is. As long as its healthy for the game and not catered around your '12 year old nostalgia' as you and the purists want. Youre trying to make a war, not a discussion here lmao
28/03/2018 23:52Posted by Felsome
OMG YOU CLEARLY WANT LEGION GTFO

28/03/2018 23:52Posted by Felsome
Any change means you want retail.


Maybe not legion
But you definitely don't want vanilla, especially with statements like this

29/03/2018 23:27Posted by Felsome
I see no point in spending a good 8 minutes just running to my corpse.
30/03/2018 13:11Posted by Exemplis
Youre trying to make a war, not a discussion here lmao

There actually is no point to make a discusion about changes to vanilla. It really has become closer to war and will probably stay so, because some people refuse to understand arguments and just propose various things because "its a forum, i can express my opinion here!" even if ther opinion has nothing to do with classic.
30/03/2018 15:54Posted by Агграэль
30/03/2018 13:11Posted by Exemplis
Youre trying to make a war, not a discussion here lmao

There actually is no point to make a discusion about changes to vanilla. It really has become closer to war and will probably stay so, because some people refuse to understand arguments and just propose various things because "its a forum, i can express my opinion here!" even if ther opinion has nothing to do with classic.
Like trying to build a Classic car from scratch and some people keep insisting on how it can be a much better bicycle (with training wheels). >.<
I can understand why people want perfectly same gameplay. Althought I would prefer decent changes that doesn't hurt core gameplay, flavour and difficulty.

Perhaps the most radical change I would approve is to improve boss mechanics.
In vanilla people more struggled with their own character, rather than against boss.
Most bosses are pretty simple and all you do is check your aggro and mana. The biggest challenge is to get appropriate gear. With access to informations we have, it is more question of time than skill to be succesful vanilla raider.

Still, even if gameplay won't change at all and we get back to 1.1 or some other verion, I will be happy to see vanilla back. What bothers me is why people are so much against visual upgrade? Usually people are happy when their old game get widescreen support or visual upgrade, while half of classic wow community go absolutely nuts.

I don't see any real cons in improved models, animations or in better textures.
All I see is nostalgia cryouts for something that is thing of the past.
31/03/2018 20:11Posted by Mealstorm
With access to informations we have, it is more question of time than skill to be succesful vanilla raider.

The example of retail shows that most of the playerbase doesnt give a !@#$ about "access to information" and often comes to the raid without preparation. I cant remember the last time where all people actually read tactics for boss before progression raids. And i rarely see a pug raid where at least half of people has all of their enchants.
So I can assume a lot of players will use the same approach on vanilla and wont use guides etc.
31/03/2018 20:11Posted by Mealstorm
With access to informations we have, it is more question of time than skill to be succesful vanilla raider.
Because everything has to be put on the raiding weight scale... like it actually mattered to the bulk of the players back then.

31/03/2018 20:11Posted by Mealstorm
I don't see any real cons in improved models, animations or in better textures.
All I see is nostalgia cryouts for something that is thing of the past.
The thing is though that this project IS about recreating a thing of the past.

And your improved models, animations and textures would miss the target of the project by miles.

But i suppose even my bicycle example is too complicated to process for some folks.
30/03/2018 13:02Posted by Redoctober
If you want X feature added, it's true you don't necessarily want Legion or BfA. But it is equally true that you don't want Classic either.

All the time, these predictions and definitions of what Classic is. I don't see how you and so many others can know what a game/server will be like a year or more before it is even released. But go ahead; tell us your great skills of prophecy-making. I really don't see it.

Pay attention now. I'll say this one more time:
All these discussions we're having is about what Classic ought to be. So claiming "oh this is Classic" and "then it wouldn't be Classic" is nothing but silly. You are probably telling this to yourself to make yourself feel better, but telling a lie over and over again only makes it true for yourself, not for others.

But maybe you are right. Maybe it is 100% true that Classic = Vanilla (seriously, there is a long thread on the issue, discuss it there). In that case, there is no need for the forum. Just shut it down and wait for Blizz to implement 1.12 or whatever.

Maybe not legion
But you definitely don't want vanilla, especially with statements like this

Yep. Have you not understood many of the prochangers? They do in fact NOT want Vanilla. They want a Vanilla experience in the form of Classic.
Anything but pure authenticity as far is at all reasonable seems like insanity to me. The real deal is what the Vanilla crowd has wanted for years and what they have already proven to enjoy enough to play for extended periods of time. It is the formula that preserves history and has a guaranteed base. If you go for something else you risk alienating that crowd and the new people you attract might not last.

Years from now when Classic too is old, then you talk about possible changes. People who are still around will then know exactly what changes are for the good of the game long term. Most of the people talking about this now will quit before they hit level 40.
29/03/2018 05:18Posted by Johnwanne
There's nothing wrong with wanting more stuff - for example, I'd like an LFD tool.... but I also want the vanilla class balance, talent trees, WPvP and Alterac Valley.


There's nothing wrong with it, but it completely contradicts the motion of wanting vanilla. Classic wow is not a remaster. They're not trying to reinvent the wheel. They're simply trying to offer an older version of the game because there is demand for it. NOT a remaster.

The fact is, we have no idea what effect the changes you people are suggesting will have. We DO know that the vanilla recipe is successful. Why in the world should Blizzard start adding changes for the minute possibility that it will make the game more appealing to a few more people, when it also entails huge risks for the current target group?

You don't HAVE to like classic. Most people won't, and that's not the goal for wow classic either way. Don't try to alter the game to make it somewhat appealing to you if you in fact prefer the retail version of the game.
31/03/2018 22:15Posted by Агграэль
31/03/2018 20:11Posted by Mealstorm
With access to informations we have, it is more question of time than skill to be succesful vanilla raider.

The example of retail shows that most of the playerbase doesnt give a !@#$ about "access to information" and often comes to the raid without preparation. I cant remember the last time where all people actually read tactics for boss before progression raids. And i rarely see a pug raid where at least half of people has all of their enchants.
So I can assume a lot of players will use the same approach on vanilla and wont use guides etc.


You have wrong example for several reasons.
I am talking about succesful vanilla raider, not about mr. Idontcare.
Also in retail you can go "full tourist" mode. What do you expect? It's not same in vanilla.

Because everything has to be put on the raiding weight scale... like it actually mattered to the bulk of the players back then.


Considering here I specifically talk about changes to raiding I don't really get your point here. Sorry

01/04/2018 01:14Posted by Shogath
The thing is though that this project IS about recreating a thing of the past.

And your improved models, animations and textures would miss the target of the project by miles.

But i suppose even my bicycle example is too complicated to process for some folks.


I don't want bicycle. I just want back my old classical car with fresh new paint....
01/04/2018 14:46Posted by Felsome

All the time, these predictions and definitions of what Classic is. I don't see how you and so many others can know what a game/server will be like a year or more before it is even released.

Because the definition of what classic is was made long ago, right when TBC came out.

01/04/2018 14:46Posted by Felsome
But maybe you are right. Maybe it is 100% true that Classic = Vanilla (seriously, there is a long thread on the issue, discuss it there). In that case, there is no need for the forum.

I wonder will ppl even understand how silly they look when they try to deny that classic and vanilla are synonyms. Of course classic is vanilla, there is nothing that points otherwise. And no, it doesnt mean there is no need for the forum. Its just that 90% of ppl discuss wrong things like stuff from retail, instead of things between 1.1 and 1.12
01/04/2018 16:17Posted by Mealstorm
I don't want bicycle. I just want back my old classical car with fresh new paint....
There you have it... in a nutshell. You don't get new paint. You get old paint... made from scratch.
No, i have to post before i go to sleep, but you are at error OP,
It is not a false dichotomy because if we want game *how it was back then*, then changing things would make it not like it was *back then*
It is a really simple logical conclusion.
01/04/2018 19:39Posted by Xsul
No, i have to post before i go to sleep, but you are at error OP,
It is not a false dichotomy because if we want game *how it was back then*, then changing things would make it not like it was *back then*
It is a really simple logical conclusion.


You might need to read OP again.

Let me point you:
28/03/2018 23:52Posted by Felsome
You want a small change? OMG YOU CLEARLY WANT LEGION GTFO
01/04/2018 16:43Posted by Агграэль

I wonder will ppl even understand how silly they look when they try to deny that classic and vanilla are synonyms. Of course classic is vanilla, there is nothing that points otherwise.

This thread has 8 pages so far. Give it a read.

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17617113129?page=1
(Dear Blizzard: "Vanilla" or CLASSIC?)
01/04/2018 23:32Posted by Felsome
01/04/2018 16:43Posted by Агграэль

I wonder will ppl even understand how silly they look when they try to deny that classic and vanilla are synonyms. Of course classic is vanilla, there is nothing that points otherwise.

This thread has 8 pages so far. Give it a read.

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17617113129?page=1
(Dear Blizzard: "Vanilla" or CLASSIC?)

The guy speaks of classic gameplay vs classic experience and proposes some changes so that game feels new.
I seriously doubt blizzard would spend time on retuning raids, changings tactics etc to appeal to some player's view of "classic experience'. It just doesnt look logical to do so much work when most of people cry for no changes.
01/04/2018 14:49Posted by Felsome
Yep. Have you not understood many of the prochangers? They do in fact NOT want Vanilla. They want a Vanilla experience in the form of Classic.


30/03/2018 11:31Posted by Vunde
And whose personal experience will that be, then?

"Vanilla" wow is not defined by changes or no changes, it's defined by history. It already exists and its boundaries are basically everything from the start up to TBC. That's already a lot of different ideas (to discuss).

Asking for changes that never happened during vanilla, though, is either trolling or being really selfish. What makes you think your experience is status quo?


Would love to get an answer to my first question.

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