False dichotomy

Classic Discussion
And whose personal experience will that be, then?

I'm glad you're comprehending the complexity of the issue. I don't have a good answer. Isn't that what the forums are for? To let us speak out.
01/04/2018 14:46Posted by Felsome
Pay attention now. I'll say this one more time:


You can say it 100 times, it doesn't change a thing. Brack already made it crystal clear (unless you are too stubborn to get it) that what is in question about Classic is what variant of things that were changed at some point during the original WoW's lifespan will be used, and that nothing that wasn't at some point a part of it except for "under the hood" things like the engine or database management will be new.

As he said, we can discuss what size should UBRS have, if there should be an 8 or 16 debuff limit on enemy units, if Maraudon or Warsong Gulch should be in the game from the start, and other things like that. But discussing if LFR should be in the game or other "small changes" is both inflamatory and pointless.
I hope the Classic servers will include a few Changes, meaby they release a few different Classic servers, one with 0 Changes and some with Changes. I already did the grind back in the Days from level 1 to clear half of naxx and rank legionare if i dont remember wrong. I know the grind and there is no way i will do this grind again, i have a Life now unlike back then.

But playing legion is so unforfilling. Yeah the combat and classes are awsome. Also everything is so convenient. No need for quivers or Arrows, no pet loyalty, no reagents for some abilies, having 3 hs with 0 cd, teleports everywhere, autotravel to dungeons or raids through LFR is very very convenient.
Leveling is a joke and the hunt for specifik legendaries are also a joke. The cathc up system makes every effort prior the catch up patch worthless.

And yet i like them both somehow. The easy mode relax casual friendly legion is a great way to enjoy the game. I dont need to farm for hours to be viable to join a raid or a dungeon, heck i have pretty much all classes at top gear Before i unsubbed and started on private servers.
But playing on private servers makes me wanna /wrist cause its to time consuming, but there at least i get challange, depth and the complexity of so many things removed in retail.
The challange is that mobs are stronger, flee when they reach low Health and one has to be careful how to pull or what abilites to use when.
Agro range is crazy, graveyards are few and many times one need help from other players unless playing with pet or demon.

But heartstone on 1 hour cd, running for miles and doing a billion quest to just take one stinking level is too slow. I recently got a class quest on my level 20 shaman in Southern barrens to get to tarren mill, thats unacceptable.

Heck im conflicted. I really only want to go back in time and play my druid prepatch TBC, it was the best and I was the best. Hoping for a good solution from blizz on the Classic server but preparing for a huge disapointment with both Classic and BfA....FML
28/03/2018 23:52Posted by Felsome
You want Classic to be exactly like Vanilla? Good.
You want a small change? OMG YOU CLEARLY WANT LEGION GTFO

That makes so much sense people. If you want crossrealm BGs, more GYs, updated graphics/skins, L/UBRS 15 man, or guild banks.... you want BfA. Because there is nothing inbetween. Any change means you want retail.

MMKAY


1 word for you.
God
#nochanges
No changes.
These "wishes" to change lead us the casual crap we have now.

Some PPL cannot realise why we don't want changes. It's not really about vanilla WoW now. It's about MMORPG. We want classic without change because nothing else left. As wow started to turn away from MMORPG into some time consuming version of LOL, many started to look around. So many games came out, promise it will be a new MMORPG redemption - turned out to be a money pump one after another. A lot of us play wow now because no real alternative - except Pservers, but those also all about money sucking (ppl spend more there than on retail...). Still works for them, since gives an old, not deformed MMORPG feeling.

A classic wow needed not because we enjoy the suck what vanilla means. We need it because all today MMO games soulless money robbing products (and not the worst, look the phone game industry), all lost in the process. We want simply the lost MMORPG feeling back, and yes, it means all the bad sides of vanilla, but we ok to accept it for the reward.
02/04/2018 19:43Posted by Felsome
I don't have a good answer. Isn't that what the forums are for? To let us speak out.


If you have something to say.

You are stating you want changes but don't see what those changes should be or what they should do. Just that there are some changes that should be there because you like them... probably.

When I ask you to think about what it would mean to make what kind of changes and for whom, you bail. I'd say that's quite pointless then.
03/04/2018 14:37Posted by Angelsoul
No changes.
These "wishes" to change lead us the casual crap we have now.

Some PPL cannot realise why we don't want changes. It's not really about vanilla WoW now. It's about MMORPG. We want classic without change because nothing else left. As wow started to turn away from MMORPG into some time consuming version of LOL, many started to look around. So many games came out, promise it will be a new MMORPG redemption - turned out to be a money pump one after another. A lot of us play wow now because no real alternative - except Pservers, but those also all about money sucking (ppl spend more there than on retail...). Still works for them, since gives an old, not deformed MMORPG feeling.

A classic wow needed not because we enjoy the suck what vanilla means. We need it because all today MMO games soulless money robbing products (and not the worst, look the phone game industry), all lost in the process. We want simply the lost MMORPG feeling back, and yes, it means all the bad sides of vanilla, but we ok to accept it for the reward.


If it is all about MMORPG, then updated graphics won't hurt right? Because it won't make game any less MMORPG. Same goes for other stuff that fixes some problems and doesn't hurt it's core, then why change is a problem?

So many people claim they know what made vanilla great game and yet they can't get over single change.
10/04/2018 22:49Posted by Mealstorm
If it is all about MMORPG, then updated graphics won't hurt right?
No of course not. As long as everything looks exactly the same as it did back then. I think it can't even run on new hardware anymore if the graphical stuff isn't upgraded.

But that was probably not what you meant. :)

New models and artstyle are that way ------> retail

10/04/2018 22:49Posted by Mealstorm
So many people claim they know what made vanilla great game and yet they can't get over single change.
Or maybe 'so many people' know exactly what they want and changes to the game are not part of that.
New models and artstyle are that way ------> retail


Using your logic. Low resolution textures and low number of polygon models are that way ------> any game 15 years old or older.

10/04/2018 23:25Posted by Shogath
Or maybe 'so many people' know exactly what they want and changes to the game are not part of that.


Well if you want back your nostalgia then you don't belong to group I was speaking about...
11/04/2018 11:30Posted by Mealstorm
New models and artstyle are that way ------> retail


Using your logic. Low resolution textures and low number of polygon models are that way ------> any game 15 years old or older.

10/04/2018 23:25Posted by Shogath
Or maybe 'so many people' know exactly what they want and changes to the game are not part of that.


Well if you want back your nostalgia then you don't belong to group I was speaking about...

Wow. Such arguments. Much logic.
11/04/2018 11:30Posted by Mealstorm
...

Using your logic. Low resolution textures and low number of polygon models are that way ------> any game 15 years old or older.

...

Well if you want back your nostalgia then you don't belong to group I was speaking about...

Wow. Such arguments. Much logic.


Your arguments are also very good. Thank you for great contribution.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Wow. Such arguments. Much logic.


Your arguments are also very good. Thank you for great contribution.

My argument is solid enough: "Vanilla means vanilla" (c) Blizzard
No matter if people asked for dual specs - there were no dual specs in vanilla. That means: vanilla is a game without dual specs. That means it will stay without dual specs. Simple math logic
11/04/2018 11:30Posted by Mealstorm
New models and artstyle are that way ------> retail


Using your logic. Low resolution textures and low number of polygon models are that way ------> any game 15 years old or older.

10/04/2018 23:25Posted by Shogath
Or maybe 'so many people' know exactly what they want and changes to the game are not part of that.


Well if you want back your nostalgia then you don't belong to group I was speaking about...
There is a large multitude of very popular games that use older artstyles. It goes as far back as pixel-art type visuals in, for instance, Terraria and Minecraft... just two from the top of my head.

So as i said, upgraded visuals (graphics, etc..) 100% certainly going to happen. But Legion like artstyle... i don't think so.
Well guys, problem is not with your arguments. Problem is you are not argumenting on point.

If someone says car 'xyz' was good because of it's engine.
And I say if it was engine what made car good, how does the new paint that car didn't have hurts?
Then answer is not I like classic cars.
11/04/2018 13:17Posted by Mealstorm
Well guys, problem is not with your arguments. Problem is you are not argumenting on point.

If someone says car 'xyz' was good because of it's engine.
And I say if it was engine what made car good, how does the new paint that car didn't have hurts?
Then answer is not I like classic cars.

Classic was made good by a lot of aspects. Specialization matters - this is one of them.
11/04/2018 13:38Posted by Агграэль
11/04/2018 13:17Posted by Mealstorm
Well guys, problem is not with your arguments. Problem is you are not argumenting on point.

If someone says car 'xyz' was good because of it's engine.
And I say if it was engine what made car good, how does the new paint that car didn't have hurts?
Then answer is not I like classic cars.

Classic was made good by a lot of aspects. Specialization matters - this is one of them.


And here we go again...
11/04/2018 14:03Posted by Mealstorm
11/04/2018 13:38Posted by Агграэль
...
Classic was made good by a lot of aspects. Specialization matters - this is one of them.


And here we go again...

I agree that this talk is useless. Presenting arguments doesn't help, it just becomes a wall of spam.
Fortunately, we have a short way to express it. #NOCHANGES
11/04/2018 14:16Posted by Агграэль
<span class="truncated">...</span>

And here we go again...

I agree that this talk is useless. Presenting arguments doesn't help, it just becomes a wall of spam.
Fortunately, we have a short way to express it. #NOCHANGES


We can agree on that, awesome.

Anyway originally I just wanted express on these forums that I would welcome new graphics and I am open to reasonable changes in vanilla.

I didn't mean to get stuck in endless flame wars that do mostly consume my free time and nothing else. As such I am out.

I wish you good luck. Carry on.

At the end I would rather play exactly same WoW as I did 12 years back than some garbage with flying mounts and LFR.

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