Some boss abilities shouldnt hit pets.

Classic Discussion
Now before everyone comes at me with nochanges like an idiot let me explain my self.

Pets are a unique part of the hunter class and in some fights you simply cannot use them. I am not talking about fights that you can pull them out from an aoe and then sent em in. Thats actually good gameplay and rewarding for good players.

However bosses like shaz or kel thuzad or shaphs frost aura just dont allow the hunter to use a pet. Its not like 100 dps from the pet is the end of the world but it feels wrong. Pets should be able to handle all fights with proper play.

Hunters are such a fun class but this detail always annoyed me.
From a practical point of view, this seems reasonable but does it not the defeat the point of pets? The reason why I preferred Hunters when I joined the game was because they felt like a companion, with loyalty and meaningful consequences of letting them die (they progress slower, DPS takes a noticeable hit, etc). The last time I played a Hunter (late MoP/early WoD) they felt like a DoT. I'd rather not dismiss my pet during some of the most important parts of my character's career. Then again, because I didn't play Vanilla I don't know what Hunters can or can't do to keep their pets alive or eke out the most DPS before dying and resurrecting.

I reckon I've said this enough times for everyone who reads this forum on the regular, but I lean toward #NoChanges because of the problems Vanilla had. I want to see the imbalance and the quirks just as much I do the awesome settings and quests I've never experienced. That and if one player is listened to it's unfair to listen to another imo. If Blizzard's required changes are too many for me to consider it as accurate a representation of Vanilla, then I'll change my thinking to what will make the game more fun for me.
14/04/2018 02:08Posted by Holyvita
However bosses like shaz or kel thuzad or shaphs frost aura just dont allow the hunter to use a pet.

Maybe u could explain for the hunter-noobs here?
14/04/2018 08:12Posted by Nostalxrius
14/04/2018 02:08Posted by Holyvita
However bosses like shaz or kel thuzad or shaphs frost aura just dont allow the hunter to use a pet.

Maybe u could explain for the hunter-noobs here?


Shapphiron has a frost aura that ticks for 600 every 2 seconds before resistances. That pretty much means pet is dead in like 20 seconds.

Kel Thuzad has that aoe frostbolt ability that hit son average 3k . 2-3 hits from it and pet is dead without any healing.

Shazzrah has that huge aoe arcane blast burst that kills every pet it hits in like 2-3 casts.

People reading this must this its just hunter noobs that can not keep pet alive or that I am asking for avoidance pets like we have today. I totally disagree with that design since I believe pet management should be a part of the gameplay of a pet class.

I enjoy for example pulling my pet in and out at Ragnaros...eve spending some time mending it to keep it alive, or dismishing it when stacks get high at Magmadar and then heal it and sent it back in etc, or pull it back before a fear in nefarian so it doesnt get accidentally in front of him and gets owned by a breath or even dismishing pet before he comes down at the balcony. That stuff requires skill knowledge and proper timing and separates noob hunters from the good ones and above all THEY MAKE the gameplay fun and engaging.

However on like 30% of the fights pets just dont have a chance and that "FEELS" bad...in the sense that its the only thing I dont like about vanilla hunters. And believe me hunters have other annoying things too but its vanilla I can live with them. Everything else is good about that class. So yet some boss abilities shouldnt hit pets.

For example like Thaddius. Pets dont get positive or negative charges. You can leave em outside of the big hitbox for the whole fight.
14/04/2018 08:12Posted by Nostalxrius
14/04/2018 02:08Posted by Holyvita
However bosses like shaz or kel thuzad or shaphs frost aura just dont allow the hunter to use a pet.

Maybe u could explain for the hunter-noobs here?


Pets in vanilla dont have a reduced damage to aoe effects like was added later. Because of this, any boss that does aoe damage in melee will tear your pet to shreds in seconds.

Because pets are such a huge part of the hunter's DPS, this leaves the hunter permanently on the bottom of the charts for multiple bosses because you just cannot keep your pet alive unless you leave it on 'Stay' behind a corner.

Healers are also very unlikely to prioritize your pet. They wont even show up on the raidframes unless the healer has installed an addon for it. Maybe it will get the occasional chain heal, but when you are past Molten Core that wont be enough to keep it alive.

Its a thorougly frustrating experience to raid as a hunter because of this, as you are forced to constantly res your pet after every pull.
Couldn't these problems be solved by using a ranged pet?
14/04/2018 13:36Posted by Shogath
Couldn't these problems be solved by using a ranged pet?


What ranged pets?
Dragonstalker's Helm
Binds when picked up
Head
Mail
392 Armor
+27 Agility
+16 Intellect
+8 Spirit
+26 Stamina
+10 Frost Resistance
+10 Shadow Resistance
Durability 85 / 85
Classes: Hunter
Requires Level 60
Equip: Improves your chance to get a critical strike by 1%.

Dragonstalker Armor (0/8)
Dragonstalker's Belt
Dragonstalker's Bracers
Dragonstalker's Breastplate
Dragonstalker's Gauntlets
Dragonstalker's Greaves
Dragonstalker's Helm
Dragonstalker's Legguards
Dragonstalker's Spaulders

(3) Set: Increases the Ranged Attack Power bonus of your Aspect of the Hawk by 20%.
(5) Set: Increases your pet's stamina by 40 and all spell resistances by 60.
(8) Set: You have a chance whenever you deal ranged damage to apply an Expose Weakness effect to the target. Expose Weakness increases the Ranged Attack Power of all attackers against that target by 450 for 7 sec.


With 5/8 T2, such problems should at least contain something.
14/04/2018 14:14Posted by Tamaliera
14/04/2018 13:36Posted by Shogath
Couldn't these problems be solved by using a ranged pet?


What ranged pets?
Hunters could tame ranged pets in Vanilla.

Edit:

Wind Serpents had some form of electric breath debuff thing and there were a few more ranged options in specific pets.
14/04/2018 14:36Posted by Shogath
14/04/2018 14:14Posted by Tamaliera
...

What ranged pets?
Hunters could tame ranged pets in Vanilla.

Edit:

Wind Serpents had some form of electric breath debuff thing and there were a few more ranged options in specific pets.


Great. You listed the only pet in vanilla that has any form of ranged ability. Do you also want to know what happens after the Wind Serpent use the Lighting Breath 2-3 times?

It runs out of focus and goes into melee.
14/04/2018 14:52Posted by Tamaliera
14/04/2018 14:36Posted by Shogath
...Hunters could tame ranged pets in Vanilla.

Edit:

Wind Serpents had some form of electric breath debuff thing and there were a few more ranged options in specific pets.


Great. You listed the only pet in vanilla that has any form of ranged ability. Do you also want to know what happens after the Wind Serpent use the Lighting Breath 2-3 times?

It runs out of focus and goes into melee.


You can still macro that pet and keep it at one spot but all the examples i given cannot be handled that way at all.
14/04/2018 15:21Posted by Holyvita
14/04/2018 14:52Posted by Tamaliera
...

Great. You listed the only pet in vanilla that has any form of ranged ability. Do you also want to know what happens after the Wind Serpent use the Lighting Breath 2-3 times?

It runs out of focus and goes into melee.


You can still macro that pet and keep it at one spot but all the examples i given cannot be handled that way at all.


Yeah. My point was more that just because you can get one particular pet, and you can micromanage it perfectly and maybe have that micro not intefere with your regular DPS rotation, does not mean pets dying is somehow not a problem.
14/04/2018 15:21Posted by Holyvita
You can still macro that pet and keep it at one spot but all the examples i given cannot be handled that way at all.
Oh well, put pet away and be a ranger then :)
Vanilla was an untested mess, and pet survability is one of its issues. Blame it on Afrasiabi and Kaplan's stubbornness when designing classes. In their eyes, a pet should only help you questing, but in a raid environment you shouldn't be playing with animals but with real adventurers.
14/04/2018 02:08Posted by Holyvita
Now before everyone comes at me with nochanges like an idiot let me explain my self.

Pets are a unique part of the hunter class and in some fights you simply cannot use them. I am not talking about fights that you can pull them out from an aoe and then sent em in. Thats actually good gameplay and rewarding for good players.

However bosses like shaz or kel thuzad or shaphs frost aura just dont allow the hunter to use a pet. Its not like 100 dps from the pet is the end of the world but it feels wrong. Pets should be able to handle all fights with proper play.

Hunters are such a fun class but this detail always annoyed me.


Youre saying youre a Hunter who doesnt understand your pet enough to dismiss it when needed? Or whats the problem?

If a fight doesnt let you use a pet, then dont use a pet. easy
14/04/2018 16:15Posted by Leisapra
Vanilla was an untested mess, and pet survability is one of its issues. Blame it on Afrasiabi and Kaplan's stubbornness when designing classes. In their eyes, a pet should only help you questing, but in a raid environment you shouldn't be playing with animals but with real adventurers.
There was a lot of trouble between hunters and their pets and other group members..

Mostly because of what Gnubbish says above me... knowing when to 'pet' and when not to. Or even just turn off the aggro-grabber on the pet.

It wasn't so much a design flaw as a player character flaw.
14/04/2018 16:25Posted by Gnubbish
14/04/2018 02:08Posted by Holyvita
Now before everyone comes at me with nochanges like an idiot let me explain my self.

Pets are a unique part of the hunter class and in some fights you simply cannot use them. I am not talking about fights that you can pull them out from an aoe and then sent em in. Thats actually good gameplay and rewarding for good players.

However bosses like shaz or kel thuzad or shaphs frost aura just dont allow the hunter to use a pet. Its not like 100 dps from the pet is the end of the world but it feels wrong. Pets should be able to handle all fights with proper play.

Hunters are such a fun class but this detail always annoyed me.


Youre saying youre a Hunter who doesnt understand your pet enough to dismiss it when needed? Or whats the problem?

If a fight doesnt let you use a pet, then dont use a pet. easy


Maybe the idea of the post wasnt clear. Not using a pet and pet dying is the same To me and 9/10 hunters out there a hunter and his pet are ONE. Thats the same reason we hated lone wolf when it came out as the best dps talent.
14/04/2018 16:25Posted by Gnubbish
14/04/2018 02:08Posted by Holyvita
Now before everyone comes at me with nochanges like an idiot let me explain my self.

Pets are a unique part of the hunter class and in some fights you simply cannot use them. I am not talking about fights that you can pull them out from an aoe and then sent em in. Thats actually good gameplay and rewarding for good players.

However bosses like shaz or kel thuzad or shaphs frost aura just dont allow the hunter to use a pet. Its not like 100 dps from the pet is the end of the world but it feels wrong. Pets should be able to handle all fights with proper play.

Hunters are such a fun class but this detail always annoyed me.


Youre saying youre a Hunter who doesnt understand your pet enough to dismiss it when needed? Or whats the problem?

If a fight doesnt let you use a pet, then dont use a pet. easy


The issue is that the Pet is an important part of the hunters DPS, and having the game designed in a way where the hunter has to give up a large part of his or her DPS on several encounters is not in any way fun. Hunters are already bottom of the barrel in terms of DPS, and this makes it even worse.

At least you always need hunters for Tranq shot and certain pulls in raids.
14/04/2018 17:28Posted by Tamaliera
The issue is that the Pet is an important part of the hunters DPS, and having the game designed in a way where the hunter has to give up a large part of his or her DPS on several encounters is not in any way fun. Hunters are already bottom of the barrel in terms of DPS, and this makes it even worse.
No, the issue is that some people don't realise that working together as a group means that you can't do everything you can do when solo.

It is as important for a good Hunter to know when to use his pet as it is when to not use his pet. Just like the use of every other ability with every other Class.

Hunter-Pet synergy doesn't always (have to) work together with other people playing the same part your pet normally does.

The problem became a problem when people started to look at the DPS-scoreboard as the Holy Grail.

14/04/2018 17:28Posted by Tamaliera
At least you always need hunters for Tranq shot and certain pulls in raids.
Which illustrates nicely what i mean.

That is why i said "Hunter puts away pet and becomes a Ranger".

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