Removing addons = PROchange

Classic Discussion
Being for the removal of addons is PROchange.

Don't act like you are against changes, but u want to remove all addons, which include the standard blizzard UI.

Yes a standard installation gives u about 6 addons.

Stop being such a hypocrite for wanting to remove all addons while saying you represent NOchanges.
People that actually played vanilla and for example raided hard did used multiple addons so it's very unlikely that removing addons has anything to with #noChanges, more like #weBeTrollin.
16/04/2018 14:37Posted by Nostalxrius
Being for the removal of addons is PROchange.

Don't act like you are against changes, but u want to remove all addons, which include the standard blizzard UI.

Yes a standard installation gives u about 6 addons.

Stop being such a hypocrite for wanting to remove all addons while saying you represent NOchanges.
Are you so afraid that when less than a handful of people have a discussion about addons you feel the need to make another stupid flamebait thread about it?

You really think Blizzard comes in here once a week to see what items are due for the next developers meeting?

Get a grip already.
If its change so be it. BAN ADDONS.
More interesting question is how will addons work since if they use current API people can make more complex and fancy addons than back in the day.
16/04/2018 19:17Posted by Evilanimals
If its change so be it. BAN ADDONS.


Leave questie alone!
Addons were there from the beginning, they are not evil they just make a lot of the game more bearable.
17/04/2018 09:40Posted by Snookiwooki
Addons were there from the beginning, they are not evil they just make a lot of the game more bearable.

Lots of them are evil and actually are cheating.
17/04/2018 12:49Posted by Агграэль
17/04/2018 09:40Posted by Snookiwooki
Addons were there from the beginning, they are not evil they just make a lot of the game more bearable.

Lots of them are evil and actually are cheating.


The only cheating addons existed back in vanilla.
16/04/2018 19:17Posted by Evilanimals
If its change so be it. BAN ADDONS.


stock UI no thank you ^^
16/04/2018 17:02Posted by Bigkeg
People that actually played vanilla and for example raided hard did used multiple addons so it's very unlikely that removing addons has anything to with #noChanges, more like #weBeTrollin.


Not sure you could even complete some of the harder raids without addon support. At the very least you need a threat meter and UI addons for healers as the base UI is beyond terrible.
The Clickbait is real

(☭ ͜ʖ ☭)
16/04/2018 20:38Posted by Nefara
More interesting question is how will addons work since if they use current API people can make more complex and fancy addons than back in the day.

Well, that's not really an issue since the current API did not exist in Vanilla.
Addons will be limited to use whatever limited API that existed at that time.
18/04/2018 15:10Posted by Daylo
16/04/2018 20:38Posted by Nefara
More interesting question is how will addons work since if they use current API people can make more complex and fancy addons than back in the day.

Well, that's not really an issue since the current API did not exist in Vanilla.
Addons will be limited to use whatever limited API that existed at that time.


That still won't solve the problem. Just look at priavate servers. Sure all of those addons existed back then in some form. But now they are way more polished, much more reliable and provide more information. For example quest helper addons in vanilla were total garbage, half of the quests were not implanted, and locations were screwed up. Now it's working like charm on private servers.

I think it's a much more complicated issue then it seems at first. I personally would like vanilla addons implanted to Classic by default, making them toggable, removing the whole idea of downloading them one by one. It's not exactly like in vanilla, but other solutions would harm the project way more in my opinion.
19/04/2018 17:23Posted by Renesmé
18/04/2018 15:10Posted by Daylo
...
Well, that's not really an issue since the current API did not exist in Vanilla.
Addons will be limited to use whatever limited API that existed at that time.


That still won't solve the problem. Just look at priavate servers. Sure all of those addons existed back then in some form. But now they are way more polished, much more reliable and provide more information. For example quest helper addons in vanilla were total garbage, half of the quests were not implanted, and locations were screwed up. Now it's working like charm on private servers.

I think it's a much more complicated issue then it seems at first. I personally would like vanilla addons implanted to Classic by default, making them toggable, removing the whole idea of downloading them one by one. It's not exactly like in vanilla, but other solutions would harm the project way more in my opinion.

Having things like questhelper implemented by default is pure cancer, that would be an instant game breaker for me
19/04/2018 17:34Posted by Агграэль
Having things like questhelper implemented by default is pure cancer, that would be an instant game breaker for me


Personally I agree. Even tough it existed, I think quest helper addons are completly against the spirit of vanilla, it really annoys me when "purist" youtubers complain about people who want minor tweaks here and there, while they stream on private servers with addons like questie.

However I think implanting every addons that existed back then, and making them toggable could still cause the least damage to the project. Because look at the other options:

- Disable all addons: I would not really mind it to be honest, but many people would go nuts, and they could bring up good reasons to support their anger. For example it would totally change how raiding was back then.

- Disable all addons, but implant some important features, like threat meter: Once again I would accept this too, but how do you decide which addons should be removed? Yes, we need threat meters, thats an easy one, but what about auctioneer? Most people don't ever use it, but for a small amount of people it's really fun and important. What about addons that help speed leveling? The list goes on.

- Make it like on private servers: I think it's a pretty bad idea for the reasons I mentioned in my previous comment. Sure, we could install addons just like in vanilla, but the overall effect on gameplay would be so different, and we are not even talking about the possibility of creating new addons, that did not exist.

That's why I don't think there is an easy answer for the addons question, at least right now I don't see a clear winner.
People who think that Addons will make the game easier - just don't know what they are talking about. I guarantee you, 70% of you will NOT reach 60, even. And at least 30% of the remaining crowd will be broken by the grind, or burn out really fast trying to do some raiging (and that means farming A LOT each day. Several hours of grind each day.).

So yeah, I don't see ANY point talking about addons. Mechanics and interface is not what made WoW difficult - it's time/gear requirements. It's the fact that everything was balanced to well-geared and "skilled" growd, as opposed to today where Heroics can be solo-ed 2 weeks after launch, and are generally balanced so that braindead people can finish them by only spamming their basic builder spell. WoW had a single difficulty, and that meant that everything was challenging and there wasn't any training wheels for you.
20/04/2018 11:07Posted by Mirtle
So yeah, I don't see ANY point talking about addons. Mechanics and interface is not what made WoW difficult - it's time/gear requirements.


Technically some addons do make WoW easier. Try to raid without a reliable threat meter. But aside from that: the addon topic is not about the game being harder or easier. It's about how should they implement them. Addon system was a part of vanilla, like other minor things like talent respec costs, raid attunements, and so on. These are not huge parts in the gameplay, but all of them have a part in how we remember the game. Just because most people would get bored of grindig, it doesn't mean we have to ignore addons.
20/04/2018 10:14Posted by Renesmé
19/04/2018 17:34Posted by Агграэль
Having things like questhelper implemented by default is pure cancer, that would be an instant game breaker for me


Personally I agree. Even tough it existed, I think quest helper addons are completly against the spirit of vanilla, it really annoys me when "purist" youtubers complain about people who want minor tweaks here and there, while they stream on private servers with addons like questie.

However I think implanting every addons that existed back then, and making them toggable could still cause the least damage to the project. Because look at the other options:

- Disable all addons: I would not really mind it to be honest, but many people would go nuts, and they could bring up good reasons to support their anger. For example it would totally change how raiding was back then.

- Disable all addons, but implant some important features, like threat meter: Once again I would accept this too, but how do you decide which addons should be removed? Yes, we need threat meters, thats an easy one, but what about auctioneer? Most people don't ever use it, but for a small amount of people it's really fun and important. What about addons that help speed leveling? The list goes on.

- Make it like on private servers: I think it's a pretty bad idea for the reasons I mentioned in my previous comment. Sure, we could install addons just like in vanilla, but the overall effect on gameplay would be so different, and we are not even talking about the possibility of creating new addons, that did not exist.

That's why I don't think there is an easy answer for the addons question, at least right now I don't see a clear winner.


How about not touching addons? After all, even if they somehow ban questie (which I don't think they can without affecting a lot more addons), wowhead still exists. You just need to alt-tab, write the name of the quest and you can see where to do everything.
20/04/2018 13:17Posted by Jaenney
How about not touching addons? After all, even if they somehow ban questie (which I don't think they can without affecting a lot more addons), wowhead still exists. You just need to alt-tab, write the name of the quest and you can see where to do everything.


That's basically alternative option 3 on my list. But to be clear: I don't want to fight against questie (or any other addon), I just think it has a bad influence on the game, but that's just my personal taste, its presence would not be a game breaker for me.

So about not touching addons: sadly it's not that simple either. I'm 99% sure old addons will not be compatible with Classic. If they allow addons, there is a good chance people will have to rewrite every single one from scratch. Which will lead to the problems I mentioned in my previous comments.

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