Class balance changes and why

Classic Discussion
Prev 1 3 4 5 8 Next
16/05/2018 17:37Posted by Flexidia
16/05/2018 17:03Posted by Crighten
...
https://youtu.be/tX65FOyWCiY?t=6m9s

Yep totally intended. Two weeks from server start? C'mon.


Ok. So a guild composed of top notch players having spent over a decade theorycrafting the best way to maximize the performance of their characters kill Ragnaros after two weeks.

How does this have anything to do with private servers? Or let me rephrase. Why do you think this would not be possible on an actual classic realm? As far as I can see, you made no attempt to explain what this video is supposed to show.


I wouldn't bother wasting my breath on these cretins Flexidia.

They don't have the faintest idea and think that nerds will just forget everything they learnt the last 10 years when official Vanilla servers launch.

Laughable really. It takes a special kind of stupid to deny that there are some really well scripted servers out there. Not everyone eats the garbage Blizz throws them, is it then so hard to believe that some people might work really hard on emulating what they and other people like.

^^
16/05/2018 17:03Posted by Crighten
16/05/2018 16:32Posted by Flexidia
You would have to look very hard to find any instance in which a part of the emulated game differs from the real thing in any meaningful way.

https://youtu.be/tX65FOyWCiY?t=6m9s

Yep totally intended. Two weeks from server start? C'mon.


AAAHAHAHA oh my GOD these people are FUNNY, comparing vanilla to 10 year of experience, knowledge and consumables they use it's RIDICILOUS.

and TOTALLY undermime the EFFORT these hardcore guilds puts into these first kills, it's really hilarious.

but thanks for once again, proving that people have NO idea of REAL difficulty of vanilla wow, let me give you little hint : Moltencore is tuned to be SUPER easy raid, it's really ridicilous, our guild managed to kill several bosses and eventually ragnaros in real vanilla with DISASTER of a guild, that is By modern standard not even casual, but JOKE, that is literally scrapped together By 40 first people who wanted to join, without any requirments at all.

i played wow from ever since beta in vanilla, i'm talking out from experience.

if ragnaros is NOT killed within 2weeks in classic wow, i know for fact it's not going to be anything like vanilla, in difficulty.

if 40man hardcore raid, that literally plays game over 20hours / day, has ALL consumables possible for EVERYONE ( that's about 300g-1000g worth of consumables used during 1 raid, for each person, so multiply that x40, literally no one did this in vanilla. ), all possible world buffs, the most optimal raid setup using only cookie builds, best classes, best in slot gear preraid etc, NOT being ABLE to kill ragnaros in moltencore, it's literally not vanilla.
2004: 40 people with no idea how to play their class properly using partially greens, partially dungeon tier 0 set, going into molten core with no clue how anything works.

2017: 40 people who knows every detail of their class go into Molten Core with gear that lets them do 5x the DPS, with every healer having 400+ bonus heal as opposed to 0+ bonus heal, properly geared tanks with defense cap and 2000 more HP and everyone using every consumable available to them while knowing the best place to position every mob and the most effective way to deal with any mechanic.

Who will clear first?
16/05/2018 13:55Posted by Geronîmoo
In vanilla it wasn't about getting from 1 to 60, but the journey getting there
Which are both one and the same thing. Or else what do you mean by 'the journey getting there'.
16/05/2018 13:55Posted by Geronîmoo
and from 60 the journey to clear content released in patches, where you'd clear content in one patch and prepare for the next content patch.
Yes. the journey... i get it... i said it.

But in a dead end scenario that is to be repeated until the end of time your patch sequence is out of place. The whole bloated 2 year cycle scheme is idiotic and only serves the wet dreams of a bunch of elitist raiders that are already dreaming of their personal chance of eternal glory.... F that!

They can easily put everything in at once and gate with a whole slew of tricks and it would still be Vanilla AND always available to start and continue whenever someone feels like it.
16/05/2018 13:55Posted by Geronîmoo
But who am i kidding, right? Talking to you folks on this forum is like bashing your head against a brick wall. The only thing you end up with is a major headache.
You are one of the 'folks' and just as much a 'brick wall' as the rest. :)
15/05/2018 06:38Posted by Lapislazuli
How amusing that Nochangers never mained a paladin/druid/shaman and never plan to main them. But go full rage mode when the people that do want to play them ask for only fair changes made to them.

b4 lies about playing them, no I don't believe u.

I'd welcome some class changes for the better of the game.

That's how I picture it as well. Guessing most of them play mage, rogue or warrior. Maybe priest.
16/05/2018 16:32Posted by Flexidia
No serious server runs stock Mangos. The spell batch system is very much working on any server I have played on, thus mages can poly each other and rogues can both open on eachother with Cheap Shot.


That's not what I was talking about, I don't know a single (released) server that has actual spell batching implemented, not nost, not Ely and not LH. Why? Because that would require some major rewrite of code that spans multiple 10k lines ;)

16/05/2018 16:32Posted by Flexidia
They simply do not know what they are talking about as they obviously have not actually played said servers


I didn't just play on pservers, I'm also on the dev side, so I know how some things work... or not work. The current notable pservers are by no means bad, but don't be fooled, they are still not a perfect emulation by far. Some things can't even be implemented perfect because there simply is no(t enough) info available.
funny thing with ppl saying no changes, because all thru vanilla alot of changes and class changes were made Rogue as the last one in patch 1.12.1 for talent and major changes.
Blizzard cant make a " pure vanilla", honestly all i want is that they fix Raid loot, think its so stupid that some blue items u replace in naxx or aq 40, and most of tier 1 sucks, add better bonuses for the sets, maybe add new sets so there r bonuses for all builds and "then" the "bad" builds got a chance to be more viable than they were in vanilla, vanilla had some bad designs with items etc.
And would love if shamans got ATK from AGI but that just me :D
16/05/2018 22:48Posted by Tsùnade
funny thing with ppl saying no changes, because all thru vanilla alot of changes and class changes were made Rogue as the last one in patch 1.12.1 for talent and major changes.
Blizzard cant make a " pure vanilla", honestly all i want is that they fix Raid loot, think its so stupid that some blue items u replace in naxx or aq 40, and most of tier 1 sucks, add better bonuses for the sets, maybe add new sets so there r bonuses for all builds and "then" the "bad" builds got a chance to be more viable than they were in vanilla, vanilla had some bad designs with items etc.
And would love if shamans got ATK from AGI but that just me :D


Yup, vanilla itemization is very odd indeed. I wouldnt want to change it though, since I think its part of the charm. But look at these items:

Robes of the Exalted. Drops in Stratholme, a 5 man dungeon you can do upon hitting 60.
https://classicdb.ch/?item=13346

89 Armor
+11 Spirit
+5 Intellect
Durability 80 / 80
Requires Level 58
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 68.
____________________________________

Robe of Faith. Priest T3 Chest. Reward from 4 Horsemen in Naxxramas.
https://classicdb.ch/?item=22512

138 Armor
+21 Spirit
+27 Intellect
+26 Stamina
Durability 100 / 100
Classes: Priest
Requires Level 60
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 64.
Equip: Restores 5 mana per 5 sec.

It makes no sense why the first is so good.
16/05/2018 22:48Posted by Tsùnade
funny thing with ppl saying no changes, because all thru vanilla alot of changes and class changes were made
I would advise you to do some reading before making statements like that.

You may find that 'no change' really means 'no outside change' while everything between patch 1.1 and 1.12.x is fair game, including bug fixes and needed technical upgrades.
16/05/2018 23:47Posted by Shogath
16/05/2018 22:48Posted by Tsùnade
funny thing with ppl saying no changes, because all thru vanilla alot of changes and class changes were made
I would advise you to do some reading before making statements like that.

You may find that 'no change' really means 'no outside change' while everything between patch 1.1 and 1.12.x is fair game, including bug fixes and needed technical upgrades.


LoL think u should read some more on forums ppl dont want grafic changes etc and only want patch 1.12.1 but the game changes alot in vanilla, i gotta ask what if they add KArazan for classic server, now dont say it wasnt in vanilla but it was and blizzard was going to make it for vanilla but change their mind because they wanted to make TBC insteed, Grim Batol was meant to be a vanilla dungeon as well
16/05/2018 23:34Posted by Zintrix
16/05/2018 22:48Posted by Tsùnade
funny thing with ppl saying no changes, because all thru vanilla alot of changes and class changes were made Rogue as the last one in patch 1.12.1 for talent and major changes.
Blizzard cant make a " pure vanilla", honestly all i want is that they fix Raid loot, think its so stupid that some blue items u replace in naxx or aq 40, and most of tier 1 sucks, add better bonuses for the sets, maybe add new sets so there r bonuses for all builds and "then" the "bad" builds got a chance to be more viable than they were in vanilla, vanilla had some bad designs with items etc.
And would love if shamans got ATK from AGI but that just me :D


Yup, vanilla itemization is very odd indeed. I wouldnt want to change it though, since I think its part of the charm. But look at these items:

Robes of the Exalted. Drops in Stratholme, a 5 man dungeon you can do upon hitting 60.
https://classicdb.ch/?item=13346

89 Armor
+11 Spirit
+5 Intellect
Durability 80 / 80
Requires Level 58
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 68.
____________________________________

Robe of Faith. Priest T3 Chest. Reward from 4 Horsemen in Naxxramas.
https://classicdb.ch/?item=22512

138 Armor
+21 Spirit
+27 Intellect
+26 Stamina
Durability 100 / 100
Classes: Priest
Requires Level 60
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 64.
Equip: Restores 5 mana per 5 sec.

It makes no sense why the first is so good.


nope but like u wrote it gets replace in the last tier, what about tier 1-2 ect, Epiqs from raid should be better than blue gear from dungeons
If you were to buff druids they would broken everywhere else. a feral that has insane utility and versatility that does rogue damage? Why would you play rogue?

Same goes for all the other hybrid classes. They had a role to fill and sometimes it wasn’t topping your Skada meter. You are applying an ideology that just doesn’t fit to what classic is supposed to be.
17/05/2018 01:14Posted by Teslasmite
If you were to buff druids they would broken everywhere else.


Exactly. You could maybe increase feral dmg by 5-15% without making them totally broken in PvP and solo-PvE. But those 15% wouldn't make them (more) viable in a raid, you still would only take as many as you would have before. They still wouldn't be a viable choice for dps slots.

The design flaw in vanilla was that "hybrid taxed" classes didn't bring enough utility, or rather not needed utility, to justify the dps loss in general. But to fix that you'd have to redesign class balance completely across the board, so #nochanges is the only reasonable thing to do.

I wouldn't trust Blizzard to change balance and actually make it better. Them trying to "fix it" is what made classes into that homogeneous crap they are now.
Buffing classes is against the RPG design of the game.

It's a simple no go.

No discussion to be had.
17/05/2018 16:38Posted by Pepermolen
Buffing classes is against the RPG design of the game.

It's a simple no go.

No discussion to be had.


Totally agree.
The whole point is to bring back players that went to private servers. Its a win for Blizzard and a lot more of active subs. If they start balance changes and adding stuff to the game that is currently on Live servers then there isn't really a point of Vanilla is there?

Thing is, they said they want to recreate experience for better and for worse which means all the crap features we had to deal with and all the good ones we experienced.

How is that some ppl want bad things removed and good ones should stay in the game? Thats not what Vanilla was about.

I spent enough time in Classic to know what im asking for. No changes.

If they make changes they will not bring down private servers.
More than that, they will give them even better way to develop them once Blizzard Classic is out. And they are free to play.
So Blizzard has to be very careful if they want to change as much as sounds effects. :P
16/05/2018 18:46Posted by Flexidia

2017: 40 people who knows every detail of their class

Rofl
17/05/2018 20:47Posted by Агграэль
16/05/2018 18:46Posted by Flexidia

2017: 40 people who knows every detail of their class

Rofl


you'd be suprised...

back in the day, i remember we had this mage who ran into melee to cast cone of cold, or whatever that spell was called, and run back to ranged.

yup, not joking, 100% serious.

edit :

and i can admit, i used moonfire as healer in vanilla, didn't stop until some time around end BWL - start AQ.
17/05/2018 21:00Posted by Cai
17/05/2018 20:47Posted by Агграэль
...
Rofl


you'd be suprised...

back in the day, i remember we had this mage who ran into melee to cast cone of cold, or whatever that spell was called, and run back to ranged.

yup, not joking, 100% serious.


hehe, rogues not using SnD. (it doesn't do damage so it can't be useful) xD
So you are telling me 40 ppl lvled to 60 - did the MC tuning questchain - farmed the FR gear needed for raggy (fairly sure its very much needed in the first kill of him) - farmed to revered (i think) with Hydraxian Waterlords to get Eternal Quintessence that 8.. ish ppl need cuz it has a 1h long CD in 2 weeks??

And its possible because they all know the shortcuts and nothing about the above was changed at all plus they are all uber pro at it?

Yhea read some of the comments of that clip (just so you get the feel of that hunters "uber pro" gameplay")and also you just ignored the glaring flaw that they got the kill cuz he bugged up.... kinda the point that was made from the get go.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum