Class balance changes and why

Classic Discussion
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21/05/2018 21:18Posted by Nightangêl
As a paladin main in vanilla .. i had to heal heal heal which !@#$ty heals and had to be a buffbot .. i still raided at first it was fun then it got boring and i dumped my paladin after raiding upto aq40 .. rerolled a rogue atleast i can have fun in both pve and pvp with this class.

Should make Ret/prot paladin viable should make Shadow priest more viable .. Enh/ele shamans should be viable .. why cant they? .. it doesnt take anything from your experience or are you %^-*!@ fury warriors afraid of Ret paladins taking all your dps gear?.


How do you propose buffing specs like Ret pala and Ele shaman to a raid viable state without making them immensely broken for PvP?

The point is that changing specs to make them raid viable would be a huge change to the game, and each change would cause loads of other issues. Its better to just leave the game as it is.
21/05/2018 21:21Posted by Flexidia
How do you propose buffing specs like Ret pala and Ele shaman to a raid viable state without making them immensely broken for PvP?

By buffing their raid utility.
21/05/2018 21:18Posted by Nightangêl
Should make Ret/prot paladin viable should make Shadow priest more viable .. Enh/ele shamans should be viable .. why cant they? .. it doesnt take anything from your experience or are you %^-*!@ fury warriors afraid of Ret paladins taking all your dps gear?.


No, they shouldn't. All of this belongs to an hypothetical WoW2, where you can have all the changes you want. Did you really hope that it would stop there after pleasing only you? Nono, since you got it your way, then everyone else needs to have their change implemented aswell, or maybe do you think your opinion has more value than any other on this subject?

Imagine the thing you would like the least added to Classic. Now that you're imagining it, I'll be advocating for it constantly. Results:
1 - You are not happy because a change that you don't like might/will get implemented.
2 - I am not happy because a change that I don't like might/will get implemented.
3 - Many more people will definitely not be happy because of both changes.
4 - More changes.

Do you have any actual reason why they should make those specs """viable""" other than "it doesn't take anything from your experience" (plot twist: it does), "it's for the sake of the game"? Because if not, then I guess I could just take the easy path aswell and advocate for the changes that I would like by making them look like they are "needed" for the sake of the game.
21/05/2018 21:42Posted by Trelonicus
21/05/2018 21:21Posted by Flexidia
How do you propose buffing specs like Ret pala and Ele shaman to a raid viable state without making them immensely broken for PvP?

By buffing their raid utility.

You have nice actual wow where everyone has buffed utility everywhere. And no unique buffs, nothing unique at all. No unique roles. No no no. Everyone is viable in any spec everywhere.
ENJOY ACTUAL. What are you doing in this thread?
Hybrids can do equal dps to viable classes in vanilla and there was always class balance , ppl had lesser knowledge which made some classes look weird due to many changes back in the day.

The reason you believe hybrids can't be top dps and can't be mt is mainly because of garbage scripted pservers based on nonsense developers where none of classes and bosses are how they were back in the days.

Wrong mechanics and abilities,wrong hp, resistance,stamina values, missing boss spells and scripts etc , incorrect patches gear vs skills etc...
22/05/2018 00:40Posted by Killerduki
Hybrids can do equal dps to viable classes in vanilla and there was always class balance , ppl had lesser knowledge which made some classes look weird due to many changes back in the day.

The reason you believe hybrids can't be top dps and can't be mt is mainly because of garbage scripted pservers based on nonsense developers where none of classes and bosses are how they were back in the days.

Wrong mechanics and abilities,wrong hp, resistance,stamina values, missing boss spells and scripts etc , incorrect patches gear vs skills etc...


Paladins still cant tank.
15/05/2018 06:38Posted by Lapislazuli
How amusing that Nochangers never mained a paladin/druid/shaman and never plan to main them. But go full rage mode when the people that do want to play them ask for only fair changes made to them.

b4 lies about playing them, no I don't believe u.

I'd welcome some class changes for the better of the game.
i heard BFA has some sweeping changes. Go play that.
22/05/2018 01:48Posted by Flexidia
Paladins still cant tank.

Unless boss will mana burn them or they will OOM on a long fight.

22/05/2018 00:40Posted by Killerduki
Hybrids can do equal dps to viable classes in vanilla and there was always class balance , ppl had lesser knowledge which made some classes look weird due to many changes back in the day.

Depends on state of the game and gear you have available. Like Enhancement Shaman with Nightfall Axe isn't something totally off the charts... yet Hunter can benefit even more from this weapon. Very hardcore guilds will be very hostile to such "non meta" toons, while everyone other won't care.

The reason you believe hybrids can't be top dps and can't be mt is mainly because of garbage scripted pservers based on nonsense developers where none of classes and bosses are how they were back in the days.

Well, it's rather boredom of people on those servers that they start to optimize "underdogs of raiding". How and when to go Boomkin or Elemental and so on. Sill even non-hybrid classes aren't equal to each other in vanilla. Still Boomking will OOM way easier than a mage, and Elemental Shaman won't benefit from Lock curses and won't do extra damage out of them.
21/05/2018 21:21Posted by Flexidia
21/05/2018 21:18Posted by Nightangêl
As a paladin main in vanilla .. i had to heal heal heal which !@#$ty heals and had to be a buffbot .. i still raided at first it was fun then it got boring and i dumped my paladin after raiding upto aq40 .. rerolled a rogue atleast i can have fun in both pve and pvp with this class.

Should make Ret/prot paladin viable should make Shadow priest more viable .. Enh/ele shamans should be viable .. why cant they? .. it doesnt take anything from your experience or are you %^-*!@ fury warriors afraid of Ret paladins taking all your dps gear?.


How do you propose buffing specs like Ret pala and Ele shaman to a raid viable state without making them immensely broken for PvP?

The point is that changing specs to make them raid viable would be a huge change to the game, and each change would cause loads of other issues. Its better to just leave the game as it is.


Well , like most of the people on this forum, he is a freaking carebear that doesn't PvP at all and therefore can't think beyond "balancing" classes around raiding.

These players can't grasp that this would destroy other aspects of the game.
Or they simply don't care cause they only think about their own experience.
15/05/2018 06:38Posted by Lapislazuli
How amusing that Nochangers never mained a paladin/druid/shaman and never plan to main them. But go full rage mode when the people that do want to play them ask for only fair changes made to them.

b4 lies about playing them, no I don't believe u.

I'd welcome some class changes for the better of the game.


Please prove that "nochangers" have never mained a pala, druid or shaman. Or at least come up with something that make this broad and quite frankly ridiculous assertion plausible.

Anyone can make up whatever "facts" theyt want to support their case, but when it's not true it makes you look weak and desperate. I have two druids and two paladins on Lights Hope that I have mained. I am more than happy to actually log on there and show you myself, but for some reason I suspect you have no interest in that as it would make you reconsider your beliefs.

And no, I dont want the classes changed.
22/05/2018 00:24Posted by Ллаит
You have nice actual wow where everyone has buffed utility everywhere. And no unique buffs, nothing unique at all. No unique roles. No no no. Everyone is viable in any spec everywhere.
ENJOY ACTUAL. What are you doing in this thread?

Noone has utility in actual. Stop strawmaning and get out.
22/05/2018 14:27Posted by Trelonicus
22/05/2018 00:24Posted by Ллаит
You have nice actual wow where everyone has buffed utility everywhere. And no unique buffs, nothing unique at all. No unique roles. No no no. Everyone is viable in any spec everywhere.
ENJOY ACTUAL. What are you doing in this thread?

Noone has utility in actual. Stop strawmaning and get out.


I never understood why people think they can win an argument by stating blatant lies. There's an endless list of utility in Legion. Although it could be that you are simply talking about a different game called "actual", I dont know.
Well most people want classic to be like nost did and do not want progressive patches.

What do you think is going to change / be better?


People who want Nostlike, does not want Classic, it's that simple.
27/05/2018 02:39Posted by Geronîmoo
Well most people want classic to be like nost did and do not want progressive patches.

What do you think is going to change / be better?


People who want Nostlike, does not want Classic, it's that simple.


Correct, people who want Nost-like want Vanilla (Blizz-like). Dunno what this Classic thing is that you are talking about.

Btw, Nost did do progressive patches, the only thing they left static were the talents and all released BGS (with the exception of AV) at the start. Was everything perfect? No. There were some bugs and and a few things that were introduced at the incorrect time (items or consumables that were introduced at the incorrect patch). However this is to be expected from a pserver.

The main thing is Blizz-like.
Why? All classes (k maybe not full disc) was optimal, but wasnt brought simply cus you needed to farm x10 the consumables than anyone else would, just to keep up. Its 2018, people have done the math and if you know your !@#$, whats stopping you? Other than the neysayers whining 'feral isnt viable'
PLEASE.
22/05/2018 01:48Posted by Flexidia
22/05/2018 00:40Posted by Killerduki
Hybrids can do equal dps to viable classes in vanilla and there was always class balance , ppl had lesser knowledge which made some classes look weird due to many changes back in the day.

The reason you believe hybrids can't be top dps and can't be mt is mainly because of garbage scripted pservers based on nonsense developers where none of classes and bosses are how they were back in the days.

Wrong mechanics and abilities,wrong hp, resistance,stamina values, missing boss spells and scripts etc , incorrect patches gear vs skills etc...


Paladins still cant tank.


Watch my YouTube channel killerduki and you will see how wrong you are.

Unless you decide to ignore and put a blind eye with intention to troll.
22/05/2018 01:48Posted by Flexidia
Paladins still cant tank.

Unless boss will mana burn them or they will OOM on a long fight.

22/05/2018 00:40Posted by Killerduki
Hybrids can do equal dps to viable classes in vanilla and there was always class balance , ppl had lesser knowledge which made some classes look weird due to many changes back in the day.

Depends on state of the game and gear you have available. Like Enhancement Shaman with Nightfall Axe isn't something totally off the charts... yet Hunter can benefit even more from this weapon. Very hardcore guilds will be very hostile to such "non meta" toons, while everyone other won't care.

The reason you believe hybrids can't be top dps and can't be mt is mainly because of garbage scripted pservers based on nonsense developers where none of classes and bosses are how they were back in the days.

Well, it's rather boredom of people on those servers that they start to optimize "underdogs of raiding". How and when to go Boomkin or Elemental and so on. Sill even non-hybrid classes aren't equal to each other in vanilla. Still Boomking will OOM way easier than a mage, and Elemental Shaman won't benefit from Lock curses and won't do extra damage out of them.


Unless boss will mana burn them or they will OOM on a long fight.


Thats why you have judgement of wisdom and seal of righteous that will double proc the judgement and all these mana issue is just proven as nonsense from you. Demonic runes and mana pots makes your fact drown in garbage.
For me all this talking about class changing is about making every single class the same. In Retail version every class is equal in everything so basically talking about classes have no sense because only difference between them is colour of the spell. I’m not even talking about it that every race can be enybody right now (holly cow sic!) In vanilla every class was unique. You knew that priest was better than pall in healing and you was ok with that because that was obvious! You knew that rouge have best dps and you didn’t waste time to trying to overpower him with your retro pall. That’s exactly what was great in vanilla. It’s like in real life where everybody are not great in everything. People are usually good at one thing and suck in another and that’s diversity is what’s marking life beautiful. Classic is not about making everybody equal in everything like in those sports days at school where everybody gets a medal at the end of the day. Every class and every spec have their place in this world so let’s just move on with this. I guess I’m #nochanges right now or something.
15/05/2018 01:46Posted by Luminnar
all in all as a druid only player, the class (along with paladins) simply sucked for EVERYTHING, with leveling being the only good thing,

I am sorry but this is complete garbage. I only ever mained a druid, mainly in Vanilla and BC and they are incredibly good at so many things. They are awesome in PvP, all three specs; ferals are great tanks in dungeons, oftentimes even better than warriors, if only slightly; resto's are great healers for raiding and just fantastic for dungeons; feral dps does fall behind compared to rogues in raids but that's because of their itemisation, they are so good in dungeons. I can go further into detail regarding these what some people consider outrageous claims, and I will if anybody wants me to, but that would take a whole druid guide.

I read someone else here claiming nobody who mained a hybrid would ask for no changes. But I do. Druids take a lot of skill to master correctly. To be able to fully utilise the enormous range of abilities that you have at your disposal, is a gigantic task. There are just too many people that don't know how to play a druid and therefore get frustrated. Watch pvp druid videos on youtube, some of them are just indestructible. That challenge is what appeals to me.
How amusing that Nochangers never mained a paladin/druid/shaman and never plan to main them


Evidence?

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