Quel'dorei High Elves as an Alliance allied race

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18/05/2018 20:40Posted by Moritz
18/05/2018 20:08Posted by Valarìel
I think this thread/topic would be better of closed right now, to be honest. In the last thread there was just a lot of toxicity.

Lasts nights convo lead to me making concept art.
Surely that goes to show not everything here is toxic

Oh that's awesome!
You got a picture of the concept art you made? I love to see what people can come up with.
18/05/2018 21:13Posted by Dudas
18/05/2018 20:20Posted by Итилион
You mean, like blaming all members of the alliance for the decisions of one general who didn't even represent the entire faction and led a small group of survivors? That's a similar nonsence.


Nope but we can blame or at least judge the other Kirin Tor surviving human mages and archmages that were there and haven't lifted a single finger or said a single word to defend the elves that Garithos wanted to hang.


What were they gonna do? Kill the last surviving humans in North Lordaeron? Dalaran had just been majorly junked by Archimonde, I think they had enough to think about other than how Garithos behaved. Arthas was still running around Lordaeron whiping out any human on sight after all.
Besides, why blame those alive who were in a busy position when you can blame the people that actually followed Garithos. They're forsaken after all. Everyone of them apart from Garithos himself should really be forsaken unless they have all died as forsaken.
Theres alot of nipicky nonsese one can get into with that topic lol.
Just wanted to voice my opinion about high elves.

Please no? We have enough Thalassian elves as is.
18/05/2018 21:54Posted by Valarìel
18/05/2018 20:40Posted by Moritz
...
Lasts nights convo lead to me making concept art.
Surely that goes to show not everything here is toxic

Oh that's awesome!
You got a picture of the concept art you made? I love to see what people can come up with.

It was only mount ideas but it's a few pages back.
I also made a version of it combined with someone else's concept art I felt when well together :)
18/05/2018 21:59Posted by Kaldryn
Just wanted to voice my opinion about high elves.

Please no? We have enough Thalassian elves as is.


We have just as many Thalassian elves as we have Darnassian elves though don't we? Or doesn't nigtborne count because they're "Shalassian"?
And don't you think we'll get a 3rd tauren and dwarf in the future? We're getting a 3rd human right around the corner, and the chances to get a 3rd troll are high.
The demand is so high for high elves so why not add another thalassian elf? It is the original thalassian elf after all. Why limit the game to just two of each?
We can all have out opinions, but I disagree, I don't think we have enough thalassian elves.
So hyped for high elves wooo!!!!
18/05/2018 20:08Posted by Tìtus

By implying that they are not to be trusted because they can go mad you are basically saying that no? If not then why have any doubts about anythung Umbric says?



Yes, they cannot be trusted because we don't know if their minds are their own, or if their minds have already been addled by void (and if they are, we don't know to what degree). That's why Umbric can't be trusted. Unless they can either fully control or get rid of their void infusion, void elves will be overwhelmed and go insane. For the third time, I'm saying that we will never see this happen to player characters because of gameplay reasons.

18/05/2018 20:08Posted by Tìtus

We don't see humans or anyone eat for that matter. A human character doesn't have to eat in the game but we can assume it happens, just like we can assume that the forsaken replace their bodyparts.
That does not in any way mean we can assume void elves are slowly going crazy and losing control, we don't have any indication of that. Maybe we'll see something int he future, but it will never be some big thing that happens to all or even the majority of them for gameplay reasons.


18/05/2018 20:08Posted by Tìtus

We do kind of see that since shadow priests kill themselves regularily in the game, but they're also not a faction. You can't show something happening to the player alone.


We've seen what happens to characters who tried to use/control/manipulate void through the run of WoW, at first partial, then complete loss of sanity is the only thing at the end of that road. We've seen Alleria, who is a student of Locus-Walker and presumably has the best control over void (at least for a mortal), causing a void portal to open on the Sunwell and letting void aberrations loose. Alleria unwillingly causes this to happen and this happens within mere minutes after Alleria comes close to the Sunwell. If someone with this much training has such little control over void, then what chance do Void Elves, who became what they are now because of their backfired experiment, have?

18/05/2018 20:08Posted by Tìtus

Are you saying the faction will one day all go crazy, but you the player will still walk around as the only void elf left? Or are you saying it's so far in the future that we'll never see it anyway?


One day? Yes, they will. Players controlled Void Elves will still stay perfectly sane no matter what direction their lore takes. Too far in the future? No way for any of us to know, though they might show Void Elf npcs completely losing the control, like some demon hunter npcs do in Valsharah questline and Vault of the Wardens.

18/05/2018 20:08Posted by Tìtus

If anything, a void elf will not eventually go crazy, they will eventually go ethereal like other creatures eventually supposedly did. Thats my udnerstanding of it atleast.
That is something I'm all for, imagine Ethereals as an allied race. The Alliance would get the void ones because void elves, and the Horde would get the arcane ones because Ley Lines. Wishfull thinking, but it sounds awesome.



I'd much rather have Blizzard retcon the unavoidable insanity part and let void elves either completely master or suppress negative effects of void, and to let them forge their own destiny. That's just personal preference though.

18/05/2018 20:08Posted by Tìtus


And what makes you think they don't just have the same opinion as her?


Because High Elf civillians have no reason to get involved with politics. Unless Kirin Tor took extra effort to feed their propaganda to every single High Elf within their reach of course.

18/05/2018 20:08Posted by Tìtus


They're already in the Alliance.


Playable High Elves are not, unless you finally decided to admit that, like Blood Elves, Void Elves are High Elves as well.



He was the leader of the Horde at the time. And I doubt they blame the Tauren for it, but the leader of the Horde and the blood elves were directly involved, so it's not weird they get blamed too.
I'm not saying they should get blamed, we sit here with gods view of the situation, the characters don't.



Indeed, which is why its also absurd to assume that Alliance characters (High Elves and the rest) would know of mana bombs to be invention of Blood Elves.

18/05/2018 20:08Posted by Tìtus


Garithos was the Leader of the Remnants of Lordaeron. Just like you say the first Horde had nothing to do with this Horde, Garithos had nothing to do with this Alliance. Actually, Sylvanas turned most of Garithos's men into forsaken, meaning that those racist people are now in the current Horde.
What reason other than a now forsaken group of remnants did Lor'themar have to not join the Alliance?


Garithos and his actions was hardly the last of the enemity Blood Elves have received from the Alliance. Alliance was sending spies in disguise of dwarven prospectors to gather intel on Blood Elves and sabotage them. Night Elf forces were attacking Silvermoon citizens because reasons. Kicking someone when he is down is one thing, but Night Elves had literally no reason to attack Blood Elves, yet they've loaded their troops to ships and sent them across the ocean to attack Blood Elves, who were still busy defending their ciy against remnants of the scourge and amani tribes back then.

18/05/2018 20:08Posted by Tìtus


I doubt the Tauren would get pissed at all. But all that is just versus the blood elves. If the Blood Elves had joiend the Alliance they would have had the backing of the Alliance forces and likely the Darkspear temporarily. Garrosh wouldn't stand a chance, and neither would the Forsaken if they stood in the way.


Darkspear siding with the Silvermoon that freshly joined the Alliance? What manner of wild fantasy is this? And getting the Forsaken out of the way? Had Sylvanas so much of caught the idea of a Blood Elf assault on the Undercity, she'd plague bomb Silvermoon until even animals and plants would've been deteriorated by plague.



Thats pure head-canon.


And claiming that every single High Elf would hate Blood Elves and blindly accept decisions of Vereesa and Silver Covenant isn't? Mmmkay



In Suramar they are described in text as being there with an army. And we know that they outnumber the void elves, the void elves are a literal team, they're a small group living in tents. The high elves populate alot of Dalaran, they populate a fort/town/garrison in outland, and they populate the Quel'danil lodge, on top of that they are spread all over the place.
Blizzard can't hope to say they're fewer than the void elves because everything int he game goes against it.


In Suramar the entire Silver Covenant representation consist of 3 people, Vereesa and her 2 bodyguards. You might say that was because of game limitations, but we haven't seen a single Silver Covenant soldier in the Suramar assault scenario either.



No, theres a quite obvious difference. Just like there is between void elves and blood elves. All their biology is very simular, but thats the same with green and brown orcs aswell, same with lightforged and draenei, same with highmountain and normal tauren.

[/quote]

There is no difference between High Elves and Blood Elves beside the colour of their eyes and the political differences between their leadership.
18/05/2018 21:59Posted by Tìtus

What were they gonna do? Kill the last surviving humans in North Lordaeron? Dalaran had just been majorly junked by Archimonde, I think they had enough to think about other than how Garithos behaved. Arthas was still running around Lordaeron whiping out any human on sight after all.
Besides, why blame those alive who were in a busy position when you can blame the people that actually followed Garithos. They're forsaken after all. Everyone of them apart from Garithos himself should really be forsaken unless they have all died as forsaken.
Theres alot of nipicky nonsese one can get into with that topic lol.


Did you read what you just typed?

"you can blame the people that actually followed Garithos. They're forsaken after all. Everyone of them apart from Garithos himself should really be forsaken unless they have all died as forsaken. "
Garithos? Forsaken following Garithos? Dafuq is in your head?
18/05/2018 22:24Posted by Dudas
Did you read what you just typed?

"you can blame the people that actually followed Garithos. They're forsaken after all. Everyone of them apart from Garithos himself should really be forsaken unless they have all died as forsaken. "
Garithos? Forsaken following Garithos? Dafuq is in your head?


He's talking about how everyone who followed Garithos were killed..

And people who died in Lordaeron had a tendency to wake up again if they were infected with the plague.. Some of Garithos' people could have been, especially since they were killed by undead infected with the plague.

Though we don't know for certain..
18/05/2018 22:24Posted by Dudas
Did you read what you just typed?

"you can blame the people that actually followed Garithos. They're forsaken after all. Everyone of them apart from Garithos himself should really be forsaken unless they have all died as forsaken. "
Garithos? Forsaken following Garithos? Dafuq is in your head?


He's talking about how everyone who followed Garithos were killed..

And people who died in Lordaeron had a tendency to wake up again..


Which have nothing to do with Garithos giving the order to imprison and execute Kael'thas and his brethen? And the Kirin tor HUMAN mages that didn't say !@#$ when that happened... Last I check Kael'thas has been part of the council of the six and hasn't done anything bad to these human mages in hundreds of years.

On the contrary he had fights with his own father regarding him being split between Kirin Tor and Quel'Thalas, since the king(that REMOVED the high elves from the Alliance in the first place) considered the prince should be more with his people and not with the humans... And yet Kael'thas stayed in Dalaran and was loyal to the Kirin Tor cause he still believed in the Alliance and has done so until his homeland has been shattered and wiped by the Scourge. And even after that he wanted to work with humans against Arthas.

But hey that's Alliance loyalty for you I guess...
When i heard the first time about Void Elves I thought they would be the remaining Highelves (we are currently talking about) leaded and teached by Alleria to control the void.

But then out of a lucky coincidence there are B11 who are doing exactly the same as Alleria did at the time the Alliance is searching for new allys. Even more absurd: Alleria is already promising Anduin to get those B11 to join the Alliance (even though she is not sure about their existence).

In my opinion this whole discussion might have been avoidable, if the new Void Elves would not have come from the horde B11 but from the alliance High Elves. But there we are nothing whole and nothing half. For the High Elf fans Void Elves are not enough and for the Elf hater they are already too much to accept one more elven race...
18/05/2018 20:08Posted by Tìtus
They're already in the Alliance.


Only the Quel'danil elves really are.

The Silver Covenant are primarily Kirin'tor.

Much like the Sunreavers were Kirin'tor first but still represented the Horde, despite Aethas not being fond of the Horde himself.

Quel'lithien never rejoined the Alliance and were neutral. They did wait for someone to invite them though, but they were killed off before anything happened.
18/05/2018 22:45Posted by Meleron

The Silver Covenant are primarily Kirin'tor.


More like Killin'tor, because thats what they and Silver Covenant do against innocent civillians.
18/05/2018 22:36Posted by Dudas
Which have nothing to do with Garithos giving the order to imprison and execute Kael'thas and his brethen? And the Kirin tor HUMAN mages that didn't say !@#$ when that happened... Last I check Kael'thas has been part of the council of the six and hasn't done anything bad to these human mages in hundreds of years.


We don't know the exact circumstances surrounding what the Kirin Tor did or didn't do or what they did or didn't know.. All we have is Rommath's version of the story, and he hates humans so he might be a little biased..

18/05/2018 22:36Posted by Dudas
On the contrary he had fights with his own father regarding him being split between Kirin Tor and Quel'Thalas, since the king(that REMOVED the high elves from the Alliance in the first place) considered the prince should be more with his people and not with the humans... And yet Kael'thas stayed in Dalaran and was loyal to the Kirin Tor cause he still believed in the Alliance and has done so until his homeland has been shattered and wiped by the Scourge. And even after that he wanted to work with humans against Arthas.


No one here is arguing that the Kirin Tor was right to passively observe Garithos imprisoning Kael'thas and his followers. Provided what Rommath says is accurate.
We don't know the exact circumstances surrounding what the Kirin Tor did or didn't do or what they did or didn't know.. All we have is Rommath's version of the story, and he hates humans so he might be a little biased..


They weren't Horde or anything at that point. Rommath relates those events as their ally. They didn't do anything against Kirin Tor. And that is how their loyalty has been rewarded in times of need. It has nothing to do with biased Horde lmao. He even explains that those events made HIM go towards the Horde in the end, based on how the Alliance and Kirin Tor treated them after years of loyalty.

It has nothing to do with nowadays #red or #blue. And they were sticking with #blue so you can't accuse him of biased on those events sorry.
Yes, they cannot be trusted because we don't know if their minds are their own, or if their minds have already been addled by void


We know though. We the players. Our characters don't, but we know.

Unless they can either fully control or get rid of their void infusion, void elves will be overwhelmed and go insane. For the third time, I'm saying that we will never see this happen to player characters because of gameplay reasons.


But they won't though. Their story is written around the "gameplay reasons". Void elves will never go insane just like the forsaken will never be mind controlled again.

We've seen what happens to characters who tried to use/control/manipulate void through the run of WoW


The void elves are written to be different. Thats the whole point of Locus Walkers existance. A void elf could enver exist in the game before Locus Walker existed based on what we know about the void, but Locus Walker defies that,t hat is why something like the void elves can be playable, they're different and therefore won't lose their mind.

We've seen Alleria, who is a student of Locus-Walker and presumably has the best control over void (at least for a mortal), causing a void portal to open on the Sunwell and letting void aberrations loose. Alleria unwillingly causes this to happen and this happens within mere minutes after Alleria comes close to the Sunwell


It is clearly a physical thing because of two opposites clashing. Thats not any indication that void elves will ever lose their mind, it just shows that bad tears in space can happen when void and light meets.

One day? Yes, they will. Players controlled Void Elves will still stay perfectly sane no matter what direction their lore takes.


No, that doesn't make any sense, they wouldn't make a story about them being to good with the void only to have them be exactly like all other void users, and they would never have made them playable if they were going to kill them all off, that doesn't make sense. If anything they will only be able to control it better and better so that they can do more with them in the future.
I don't belive for a second that they would make a race playable if it was doomed from the start.

I'd much rather have Blizzard retcon the unavoidable insanity part and let void elves either completely master or suppress negative effects of void, and to let them forge their own destiny. That's just personal preference though.


Thats not something they would have to retcon. The whole "all things touched by the void goes crazy" is just old understanding of the void, just like how everything that had anything to do with the light used to be good, but now they show that it's not the case. They're breaking all those old beliefs in the lore itself, they don't have to retcon anything.
I'm still in the "playable etherael" crew. Making armor work on them should in theory be easy since they have the most basic humanoid shapes.

Because High Elf civillians have no reason to get involved with politics. Unless Kirin Tor took extra effort to feed their propaganda to every single High Elf within their reach of course.


Of course they have a reason to get involved, thats nonsense.

Indeed, which is why its also absurd to assume that Alliance characters (High Elves and the rest) would know of mana bombs to be invention of Blood Elves.


Literally no other race could have done it...

Garithos and his actions was hardly the last of the enemity Blood Elves have received from the Alliance. Alliance was sending spies in disguise of dwarven prospectors to gather intel on Blood Elves and sabotage them. Night Elf forces were attacking Silvermoon citizens because reasons. Kicking someone when he is down is one thing, but Night Elves had literally no reason to attack Blood Elves, yet they've loaded their troops to ships and sent them across the ocean to attack Blood Elves, who were still busy defending their ciy against remnants of the scourge and amani tribes back then.


I have no idea what you're even talking about here. Are we in TBC now? Because they definately had reasons to spy on the blood elves in TBC. Not only were they fellow enemies on Outland, but they just joined the opposite faction. Thats reason enough.

18/05/2018 22:24Posted by Feldaril
Darkspear siding with the Silvermoon that freshly joined the Alliance? What manner of wild fantasy is this? And getting the Forsaken out of the way? Had Sylvanas so much of caught the idea of a Blood Elf assault on the Undercity, she'd plague bomb Silvermoon until even animals and plants would've been deteriorated by plague.


Yes Darkspear joinign the Alliance, just to aid in the war to overthrow Garrosh, just like they did in the canon universe.
And no, Sylvanas couldn't do anything. Rememebr that I mentioned the whole of the Alliance? The blood elves wouldn't be alone.

18/05/2018 22:24Posted by Feldaril
And claiming that every single High Elf would hate Blood Elves and blindly accept decisions of Vereesa and Silver Covenant isn't? Mmmkay


I haven't said that either. I said that the Silver Covenant probably hates the Horde as much as Vereesa. I don't know what the people of Quel'danil and the outland base have against blood elves, but they clearly have something against the Horde or els they wouldn't have stayed in the Alliance.
Besides, what you said about all high elves hating blood elves is alot less head-canon than a propaganda conspiracy.

18/05/2018 22:24Posted by Feldaril
In Suramar the entire Silver Covenant representation consist of 3 people, Vereesa and her 2 bodyguards. You might say that was because of game limitations, but we haven't seen a single Silver Covenant soldier in the Suramar assault scenario either.


Well we see them in the actual cutscene, and they say it's an army, so yeah I'll go with game limitations being the cause.

18/05/2018 22:24Posted by Feldaril
There is no difference between High Elves and Blood Elves beside the colour of their eyes and the political differences between their leadership.


And culture, as shown by Elisande and the brand new book.
18/05/2018 22:45Posted by Meleron
Only the Quel'danil elves really are.

The Silver Covenant are primarily Kirin'tor.


No. The Silver Covenant is full on Alliance. They're in the Kirin Tor aswell, but they're mainly Alliance.

And theres also the high elves in Outland.

18/05/2018 22:57Posted by Dudas
nd that is how their loyalty has been rewarded in times of need


Remember when they left the Alliance because they threw a hissy fit because the orcs touched their woods? They blamed the humans for not being good enough at holding them back.
Yeah, those poor elves, they have always been so nice, they can't do wrong.
18/05/2018 22:57Posted by Dudas
They weren't Horde or anything at that point. Rommath relates those events as their ally. They didn't do anything against Kirin Tor. And that is how their loyalty has been rewarded in times of need. It has nothing to do with biased Horde lmao. He even explains that those events made HIM go towards the Horde in the end, based on how the Alliance and Kirin Tor treated them after years of loyalty.


Right you are. I forgot that part.

But remember, that was the Alliance of Lordaeron. Which doesn't exist anymore.
Blaming the Alliance of Stormwind for the mistakes of the Alliance of Lordaeron is the same as blaming the New Horde for the mistakes of the Old Horde.

The Kirin Tor are the Kirin Tor of course, but they aren't part of the Alliance of Stormwind.

18/05/2018 22:57Posted by Dudas
It has nothing to do with nowadays #red or #blue. And they were sticking with #blue so you can't accuse him of biased on those events sorry.


This might be just because of my past interactions with you, but I'm reading this in a really, really bitter and angry tone.. Especially that last bit..
18/05/2018 23:19Posted by Alyssa
This might be just because of my past interactions with you, but I'm reading this in a really, really bitter and angry tone.. Especially that last bit..


You can read them as you want. But me saying that 2+2 = !@#$ing 4 won't change the fact. :)
18/05/2018 23:24Posted by Dudas
You can read them as you want. But me saying that 2+2 = !@#$ing 4 won't change the fact. :)


You see, this is the kind of thing that made Moritz write this.

18/05/2018 17:13Posted by Moritz
Dudas?
Not be rude?
Never gonna happen


Are you really angry every time you discuss something on the forums?

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