Quel'dorei High Elves as an Alliance allied race

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15/11/2018 05:54Posted by Xelius
14/11/2018 22:45Posted by Türiel
...

It won't because we want High elves. And again blood elves arn't High elves. Else they'll be named that on the character creation screen. :)
The blood elves (or sin'dorei, "children of the blood" in Thalassian — pronounced [ˈsiːndɔraɪ], [siːnˈdɔraɪ] or [siːndɔreɪ]) are high elves who changed their name after the Scourge invasion of Quel'Thalas. They are helfs...


They were High elves*
15/11/2018 11:58Posted by Türiel
They were High elves*


-Are- High Elves. Who now call themselves Blood Elves. I mean that is the Lore behind them.

That quote Xelius posted is from Blizzard.

You are literally arguing against a fact that Blizzard have stated.
Really, can we just drop that point?
No one really argues against the fact that blood elves and high elves are the same race. And the exact term or phrase of how to name it is really not that important.

They *are* the same race, divided by political/ideological matters, that turned eventually into a rift of hatred (Theramore, then the purge, etc).

We refer to them as "high" and "blood" elves mainly as terms of convenience, that make clear about which of the rival factions we are talking. They could be also called "Regency elves" and "Silver covenant elves" as far as I'm concerned.
No. Just no.

No more elves.

I like elves. Probably my favourite fantasy race. Azeroth doesn't need any more elves nor dwarves nor trolls nor humans nor cows.

Allied races = pathetic excuse for your money.

I got the blue belfs and the malnourished nelfs and was instantly disappointed.
The more elves = the better :-P

It will just give more options to the elf playing crowd. Those that dislike elves won't play them anyway and will skitter around with their Vulpara and mecha-gnomes.

P.S: while its your right to think that "better no more allied race" - it's much better (at least in my opinion) to give something already based in the lore, then some Bizarre "cool" anecdote, that hardly 1% will play when the first wave of novelty wears off.
15/11/2018 12:18Posted by Amnastaria
No one really argues against the fact that blood elves and high elves are the same race.


Turiel -Just- did, and has done consistently. I mean that is literally the first post on this page... You can't say 'drop it' when people keep bringing it up and making incorrect statements.. Maybe they should stop making incorrect statements?
15/11/2018 12:36Posted by Brigante
Turiel -Just- did, and has done consistently. I mean that is literally the first post on this page... You can't say 'drop it' when people keep bringing it up and making incorrect statements.. Maybe they should stop making incorrect statements?


If he meant that, then he is mistaken.
But it seems to me that he either meant "They threw their high elf heritage away in favor of a new blood elf heritage which is darker" or "They are not worthy to be called high elves anymore"

Which are both highly subjective perspectives that go not "real" answer. Same as horde loyalists calling the high elves "traitor faction that don't deserve to be called high elves anymore".

Simple fact is - both rival factions are still the same race.

The discussion relevant to the thread is only either the alliance-loyal faction is in need to become playable or not. And its obviously not "who is right and who is the villain in the lore".
Race names are subjective, night elves and nightborne call themselves differently, high elves and blood elves do the same, you even have seperate pages on wowwiki since they're different races nowadays.

Night elves descended from trolls, but they're no longer trolls, they seperated from trolls and changed.

High elf and belf change isn't clear ingame, but there should be a difference, and the fanmade US models are best depiction.
15/11/2018 12:49Posted by Skyrha
High elf and belf change isn't clear ingame, but there should be a difference, and the fanmade US models are best depiction.


Fanmade <anything> isn't grounds for a consensus of it being the case though.

15/11/2018 12:49Posted by Skyrha
Race names are subjective, night elves and nightborne call themselves differently, high elves and blood elves do the same, you even have seperate pages on wowwiki since they're different races nowadays.


Thing is, the night elves and nightborne are different races at this point. The nightborne have been physically altered over the course of 10.000 years. Call it evolution, mutation or regression - whichever the case, theirs is not the same situation as blood- and high elves.
15/11/2018 12:08Posted by Brigante
15/11/2018 11:58Posted by Türiel
They were High elves*


-Are- High Elves. Who now call themselves Blood Elves. I mean that is the Lore behind them.

That quote Xelius posted is from Blizzard.

You are literally arguing against a fact that Blizzard have stated.


If they were high elves blizzard would have named them that whenever you click on them but they don't clearly just something they said to keep the horde happy.
15/11/2018 12:36Posted by Brigante
15/11/2018 12:18Posted by Amnastaria
No one really argues against the fact that blood elves and high elves are the same race.


Turiel -Just- did, and has done consistently. I mean that is literally the first post on this page... You can't say 'drop it' when people keep bringing it up and making incorrect statements.. Maybe they should stop making incorrect statements?


No i'm not against that but if those trolls think that blood elves are The Silver Convernent blizzard needs to tell them that or enable horde trolls to be getting a time out.
15/11/2018 12:44Posted by Amnastaria
15/11/2018 12:36Posted by Brigante
Turiel -Just- did, and has done consistently. I mean that is literally the first post on this page... You can't say 'drop it' when people keep bringing it up and making incorrect statements.. Maybe they should stop making incorrect statements?


If he meant that, then he is mistaken.
But it seems to me that he either meant "They threw their high elf heritage away in favor of a new blood elf heritage which is darker" or "They are not worthy to be called high elves anymore"

Which are both highly subjective perspectives that go not "real" answer. Same as horde loyalists calling the high elves "traitor faction that don't deserve to be called high elves anymore".

Simple fact is - both rival factions are still the same race.

The discussion relevant to the thread is only either the alliance-loyal faction is in need to become playable or not. And its obviously not "who is right and who is the villain in the lore".


I know good the sin'dorei are in their own way high elves and sure people may say they're real high elves but to me The Real High elves are the ones there don't side with the horde.
If they were high elves blizzard would have named them that whenever you click on them but they don't clearly just something they said to keep the stupid horde happy.


15/11/2018 13:27Posted by Türiel
No i'm not against that but if those trolls think that blood elves are The Silver Convernent blizzard needs to tell them that or enable horde trolls to be getting a time out.


You see why some people have a hard time taking the Pro-High Elf argument seriously?

They're arguing vehemently for High Elves, and they don't even know the lore of the race or what they are. How on earth are such arguments meant to be taken seriously?
Because there are more then enough high elf supporters that make in-depth claims based upon the lore? enough not to base any counter claim on a single poster that posts subjective opinion that had no real answer about "how is worthy to be called a high elf".

(and I think English isn't his native language anyways, and it makes it harder to get his claim clear - though it seems that he argues against trolls that spam "high elf = blood elf" as a counter argument to the plight to make Silver covenant elves playable).

Anyway - Turiel himself admits:

15/11/2018 13:28Posted by Türiel
know good the sin'dorei are in their own way high elves and sure people may say they're real high elves


But according to his subjective opinion, they are not worthy. Same as horde supporters say the same thing about the silver covenant. But it got nothing to do with objective racial identity.
13/11/2018 10:35Posted by Aerythlea
Note: We will be migrating over any active threads from the last two weeks to allow ongoing community discussions to continue as seamlessly as possible.


That means that this topic will migrate too. But in-case @Leolamin should make a copy of his first post.

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17624563547
Well, fellow high elf supporters!
It was a pleasure fighting side by side with you, fending off the troll tribes that invaded our lovely thread :-P

Cya in the new forums, I guess :-D
15/11/2018 13:32Posted by Brigante
If they were high elves blizzard would have named them that whenever you click on them but they don't clearly just something they said to keep the stupid horde happy.


15/11/2018 13:27Posted by Türiel
No i'm not against that but if those trolls think that blood elves are The Silver Convernent blizzard needs to tell them that or enable horde trolls to be getting a time out.


You see why some people have a hard time taking the Pro-High Elf argument seriously?

They're arguing vehemently for High Elves, and they don't even know the lore of the race or what they are. How on earth are such arguments meant to be taken seriously?


I know the lore the ones there survived the attack by the scourge renamed them selves blood elves sin'dorei in honor of their fallen kin. While those within Dalaran never did to me they're the real High elves.
So i know good they're also high elves but they renamed themselves sin'dorei if they were High elves again why haven't they announced it then that they're no longer blood elves?
17/05/2018 12:46Posted by Leolamin
Last thread capped. (2000 replies)

Alliance High Elves as a Playable Race

Since the April 26th Q&A, the discussion on High Elves has grown heated, fractured, and unproductive. In an attempt to restore a structured course of discussion to continue efforts to show support for High Elves as a playable race, this thread will dissect the response given by Ion Hazzikostas during the Q&A regarding High Elves. By this we hope to not only create reasoned discussion, but focus it within one thread to restore the forums to the more peaceful state it was prior to the Q&A.

To begin with, the question and reply:

Question: When deciding on Allied Races, why did you choose Void Elves when High Elves seemed more of an organic and popular choice?


Answer: So, Blood Elves kind of are High Elves with different eye colors and backstory in terms of their relationship to magic in the Sunwell. But if you want to be a fair-skinned, light, blonde-haired, tall, majestic, elf... That is a Blood Elf.

Giving that race directly to the Alliance would have blurred a lot of the lines between the two factions, but also there isn't a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group which remains in Azeroth. There's a couple... We just met Alleria again... But they're not out there in the same way. When we add an Allied Race, there's a desire to have things be even more distinct especially between the two factions with the faction conflict being so prominent. And so, the Void Elf angle, as it tied into the story of Argus, the powers of Alleria awakened and was able to train others to harness, was able to give something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf but had a unique flavor of its own to the Alliance.

That said, obviously I understand you would love Alliance elves... You're an Alliance player, and want to be a fair-skinned, light-haired, blue-eyed elf. Sorry? The Horde is there and waiting for you. Eye color is not quite the same but maybe contact lenses in the future, you never know? Anything is possible in the future, but no plans in the near-term to add High Elves as an Allied Race.


We'll look at the first part of the answer to begin with.

PART ONE:
BLOOD ELVES ARE HIGH ELVES


So, Blood Elves kind of are High Elves with different eye colors and backstory in terms of their relationship to magic in the Sunwell. But if you want to be a fair-skinned, light, blonde-haired, tall, majestic, elf... That is a Blood Elf.


This is nothing new, though the nature of the reply leaves much to be desired. It is widely acknowledge by all players, those in favor of High Elves and against, that the different eye color and relationship to the Sunwell is at the heart of the difference between Blood Elves and High Elves. No one disputes this, nor is it a point that needs to be disputed as it is the similarities between the two races which makes their unfolding story of conflict with one another both organic, and interesting.
That said, there is a clear logical fallacy in the words, "But if you want to be a fair-skinned, light, blonde-haired, tall, majestic, elf... That is a Blood Elf."

This is like saying, "If you want to be a purple-skinned, muscular, white-haired, tall, majestic elf... that is a Night Elf."

As one can immediately surmise, that description also applies to Nightborne, a Horde allied race. Did the Alliance have a monopoly on that appearance as this reply would seem to suggest the Horde has a monopoly on the appearance shared by High Elves and Blood Elves? The answer is no.

Why should the Horde be given this preferential treatment over the Alliance? Why should the Alliance lose it's night elven aesthetic to the Horde, but the Horde maintain a monopoly on the Thalassian aesthetic?

There will never be an answer to that question which will be acceptable. The box was opened with Nightborne. It cannot be closed. The Horde has no right to preferential treatment over the Alliance. The scales may not always be balanced between the two factions, but in this case, there is no reason to leave them tilted.

PART TWO:
THE BLURRING OF FACTION LINES


Giving that race directly to the Alliance would have blurred a lot of the lines between the two factions, but also there isn't a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group which remains in Azeroth. There's a couple... We just met Alleria again... But they're not out there in the same way. When we add an Allied Race, there's a desire to have things be even more distinct especially between the two factions with the faction conflict being so prominent. And so, the Void Elf angle, as it tied into the story of Argus, the powers of Alleria awakened and was able to train others to harness, was able to give something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf but had a unique flavor of its own to the Alliance.


First and foremost it must be stated clearly: Players do NOT want Blood Elves, when they're asking for High Elves. Players want the Silver Covenant, the Highvale Elves, the Alliance Expedition High Elves. They don't want Magister Umbric or Archmage Aethas, they want Vereesa Windrunner and Auric Sunchaser.

High Elves have been a part of the Alliance's story for so long that there is no blurring of the lines between the two factions with their addition. If anything Void Elves blurred the lines by taking the edginess thematic of the Blood Elves and serving it to the Alliance with an actual group of former Blood Elves, rather than the Alliance's own loyal High Elves.

We do have a clear example of who or what the High Elves are as a larger group which remains in Azeroth. The Silver Covenant has been the face of the High Elves since Wrath of the Lich King. If the Developers feel this is not enough, then it is time to focus on that identity until it has reached a point of satisfaction. Many players are satisfied with High Elves as they exist right now. If Blizzard isn't, then it is upon Blizzard that the quality is brought up to the point they desire.

It has been noted in this reply that distinction between the two factions is important, especially with faction conflict being prominent. There is no greater symbol of the conflict between the Horde and the Alliance than that of the Blood Elves and the High Elves. Orcs vs. Humans may be the core of the conflict as the major identities of the Horde and Alliance, but Blood Elves vs. High Elves represents the spirit of it. They epitomize this conflict in ways both artful and subtle. Despite having so much in common, there is a brutal shared fear, paranoia, and even hatred which is based entirely in the perspective of each side, which perfectly mirrors that of the greater Horde and Alliance factions. There could be no better race to make playable in an expansion about faction conflict than the High Elves considering this.

The conflict between High Elves and Blood Elves has reached such incredible relevance that it's become the ideal analogy, as powerful an image of the conflict as the ages old Orcs vs. Humans. One could go so far as to say the absence of the High Elves neuters the quality of faction conflict. Horde players have complained they feel no real attachment to the upcoming conflict, that they feel like villains rather than protagonists. Through these forums alone we see the conflict already between factions, just on the topic of High Elves. Horde players express their desire to wipe them out, Blood Elf players describe them as traitors, bringing up the Purge of Dalaran. It's the ultimate expression of faction conflict condensed to one single, easy to add Allied Race. High Elves have done more to galvanize faction conflict than any other Allied Race could. At this point it is criminal to leave them out for any reason.

If you won't add High Elves for the Alliance, at least do it for your Horde players to finally have a target they feel legitimized in attacking.

PART THREE:
THE HORDE IS WAITING FOR YOU


That said, obviously I understand you would love Alliance elves...you're an Alliance player, and want to be a fair-skinned, light-haired, blue-eyed elf. Sorry? The Horde is there and waiting for you. Eye color is not quite the same but maybe contact lenses in the future, you never know? Anything is possible in the future, but no plans in the near-term to add High Elves as an Allied Race.


Considering how the previous part of the answer raised the issue of faction blurring, this reply is singularly self-defeating and antagonistic. The Horde should not be waiting for players wanting to be High Elves. The Horde should be sharpening their knives in anticipation of facing these players. By suggesting players seeking to play as High Elves should instead join the Horde, this reply is encouraging a blurring of the faction lines.

Not only that but the reply is insulting and once again, brings up the question raised from the first part of the reply. "If you want to play a purple-skinned, white-haired, tall majestic elf, the Alliance is waiting for you." Except its not. The Horde has those very same options. The Alliance doesn't have a monopoly on them. Why should the Horde have a monopoly on, "fair-skinned, light-haired, elves?"

It shouldn't.

CONCLUSION:
ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE IN THE FUTURE


The final words of this response are perhaps the most legitimate. Anything is Possible in the Future. High Elves are possible in the future. Well, they should be more than a possibility. They should be guaranteed. The Horde has no right to monopolize a specific aesthetic anymore than the Alliance does, and the fact this was alluded to as an acceptable answer to the matter is nothing short of ludicrous.

Speculation can be offered on the nature of this highly unsatisfactory answer. Perhaps the most probable is that it is too early to simply state that High Elves will come. Other races haven't yet received Allied Races to expand on their own customization (Gnomes, Worgen, Forsaken, Goblins, Night Elves, and Blood Elves), and Void Elves still need to find their place in the narrative. Certainly discussing adding High Elves right now would marginalize players who genuinely approve of Void Elves, and players waiting to see what is in store for them and their favorite races which haven't yet received new customization through Allied Races.

The above having been said, there were better ways to answer the question, but at least it ended with a kernel of hope for players still awaiting High Elves. Perhaps the greatest criticism about this answer, however, lays in how uninformed it is in regards to discussions had by players in what they would like to see with a High Elf Allied Race.
In short this post shall conclude with a question to those working on World of Warcraft at Blizzard themselves:

Why ask we, the players, what we would like to see for Allied Races, if you will reply as if you never listened?

EXTERNAL LINKS

High Elven discord Legacy of the Quel'dorei
https://discordapp.com/invite/jsfDcZx


Wowhead Weekly #159: Perculia and Anniefuchsia about the Ion's answer to High Elves
https://youtu.be/jSsby5vE3nc?t=1h21m35s


Wowhead article about the High Elven discussion
http://www.wowhead.com/news=283929/the-discussion-surrounding-high-elves-as-an-allied-race


Taliesin & Evitel Do Games - "How BfA Is Ruining EVERYTHING: High Elves, GCD & Personal Loot"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVxAb5pYug0


The Alurna Manifest of High Elves
https://www.facebook.com/notes/legacy-of-quelthalas/the-alurna-manifest-of-high-elves/1772785739696244/


Destiny of the Quel'dorei survey (vote)
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc714dMOI8cIIlInMDq3jcD_nSqPdWTGHTQ93gmz8F9usBqfw/viewform


Destiny of the Quel'dorei survey (results)
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc714dMOI8cIIlInMDq3jcD_nSqPdWTGHTQ93gmz8F9usBqfw/viewanalytics


Compilation of the High Elven fan-made arts to customization options
https://legacyofqt.tumblr.com


All versions of the OP are saved in this Google Drive folder
goo.gl/SGqvnP


High Elven Community FAQ
CLAIM:There aren’t enough High Elves left, I thought?[quote]

The Silver Covenant, the militarized organization of Dalaran High Elves (which have recently been clarified as being more numerous than once thought), have been present for many of the Alliance’s military operations in the past several expansions and have consistently fielded numbers that would suggest there are plenty of them left.

Similarly, Quel’Danil lodge in the Hinterlands and the Allerian Stronghold in Outland both show other independently organized High Elf forces that are not suffering in numbers.

In addition, Stormwind has its own High Elf population. There is more than enough evidence to suggest High Elves have enough numbers to be appropriate for an Allied Race, especially compared to what has been shown as appropriate for other examples such as the Lightforged or the Void Elves.

Source: In-game representation, out of game official canon text such as Chronicle Vol 3

CLAIM: I don’t want to see any more elves in this game!”
This is a subjective opinion, and a valid one, but not a reasonable argument against other people’s ability to ask for what they would also subjectively like to see.

CLAIM: Void Elves are the substitute
Void Elves were specifically and deliberately set up as being recent exiles from Silvermoon among the Blood Elf population. Their presence does not continue the separate High Elf story in any way and thus is not a reason for them not to be added.

{b]CLAIM[/b]: High Elves = Blood Elves = Void Elves
Both the in-game lore and the out of game official canon texts have very clearly set up the Thalassian elves as a split people, and the themes of mutual High Elf and Blood Elf resentment for each other is what led to the creation of the Silver Covenant in the first place. Furthermore, Chronicle has drawn further attention to the fact on some level this split was in the process of happening before Kael’Thas even renamed those who followed him to Blood Elves: tensions existed between the High Elves who chose to live in Dalaran and those who lived in Silvermoon, the latter considering the former to prefer the company of humans over the love of their own homeland.

Sources: In-game representation and lore as presented through Alliance questing, as well as out-of-game official canon text such as Chronicle Vol 3.

CLAIM: High Elves will cause population bleed on Horde side.
Considering Allied Races have so far required extra steps, such as having a max level character on the appropriate faction and gating behind reputations, along with the fact that Allied Races also have restricted class options (Death Knight and Demon Hunter are both very popular classes and would likely not be available), this outcome is unlikely. Adding to that, the fact that Horde edges out Alliance population-wise slightly at max level, and the fact that Void Elves, which brought the Blood Elf model to the Alliance to begin with, did not impact overall faction balance, and this is very likely not a very serious concern.


This text was created by Alurna@Moon-guard and had it's HTML changed by Pontifice@Azralon.

Edit: Title was changed from
High Elves as an Alliance allied race to
Quel'dorei High Elves as an Alliance allied race


in -case if they do not migrate whole topic just last two weeks posted, will be easier for |@Leolamin re-post it
15/11/2018 14:02Posted by Amnastaria
Well, fellow high elf supporters!
It was a pleasure fighting side by side with you, fending off the troll tribes that invaded our lovely thread :-P

Cya in the new forums, I guess :-D


But the tread isn't over is it?

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