#NO CHANGES!! .. But.. TMog?

Classic Discussion
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26/05/2018 11:15Posted by Trelonicus

And as you can see from post1 vs post2 showdown, very few actually want this. Why implement something that almost no one wants?
Actually, the idea of getting appearances in modern by playing Classic is very very popular.
26/05/2018 16:18Posted by Exemplis
26/05/2018 14:04Posted by Ashiharademo
Classic should be 100% separated from the other wow versions.

And I say it again: Tmog is cancer.

Can I just ask why its cancer? You and everyone and their mother is using it since it came out?


Hard to explain it to someone who didn t play vanilla and the first expansions to understand how was it back than when every piece of armor really meant something and only the visual of an advanced item or set could make an important impression and inspire respect on the others around or even could scare an enemy player away.

Now, since tmog is out, everyone is roleplaying Lady Gaga. Keep away this !@#$ from Classic and pls no BFA players coming to Vanilla only for unloking more fashion options.
26/05/2018 22:44Posted by Ashiharademo
Hard to explain it to someone who didn t play vanilla and the first expansions to understand how was it back than when every piece of armor really meant something and only the visual of an advanced item or set could make an important impression and inspire respect on the others around or even could scare an enemy player away.
We all looked like Poopy the Clown. We weren't all as impressed by the lack of design as you and others.

Wearing crap looking armor as a badge of honor was literally the only natural autoreflex our brains had to prevent them from exploding in a million colors. Luckily for Blizzard all the sheep swallowed the swill and even started their own cult based on the sad fact that you could recognise people from a mile away by the rediculous pattern of their unmatching eyesore armor.

A Fantasy game where you can't look the part you play without gimping your stats... has to be the biggest mmoRPG gamedesign failure ever.
26/05/2018 22:44Posted by Ashiharademo
Now, since tmog is out, everyone is roleplaying Lady Gaga. Keep away this !@#$ from Classic and pls no BFA players coming to Vanilla only for unloking more fashion options.
Yeah, ofcourse we really can't have all that crap in Classic. It has to be how it was.

But please stop romantisising the fustercluck Vanilla armor design was. Because it was and still is embarrasing.
26/05/2018 16:57Posted by Varleen
26/05/2018 11:15Posted by Trelonicus

And as you can see from post1 vs post2 showdown, very few actually want this. Why implement something that almost no one wants?
Actually, the idea of getting appearances in modern by playing Classic is very very popular.


Maybe it's popular for retail players (let's say that your statement is true) but not for Vanilla players. Guess which one do you think Blizzard is providing Vanilla for.
Since no game elements are changed in the "Classic" game, the opinion of the "Classic" players on this " transmogg for retail " proposal is not particularly important.
It does still affect the game experience though (or rather, it does have a chance to do it), even if it doesn't affect the gameplay at all.

Seriously, the fact that this is even being brought up as a discussion is so disappointing.
If the goal is to get tmogs, I think it would be better if they just restored the appearences in retail.

I don't think it would be a good method for neither classic/retail players. Retail players would be "forced" to play an iteration they would most likely not like, and classic players would most likely suffer from ninja-looting in a not-so-easy-to-get-loot game for the sake of a transmog.

Also, in order to do that, they'd have to alter the looting system from classic. They'd have to add the "Need-only" option when you use the proper class (cloth to cloth users, mail to mail users...) and expand it even more to avoid problems (healing leather available only to resto druids, for example)... I actually don't see it.
26/05/2018 22:44Posted by Ashiharademo
26/05/2018 16:18Posted by Exemplis
...
Can I just ask why its cancer? You and everyone and their mother is using it since it came out?


Hard to explain it to someone who didn t play vanilla and the first expansions to understand how was it back than when every piece of armor really meant something and only the visual of an advanced item or set could make an important impression and inspire respect on the others around or even could scare an enemy player away.

Now, since tmog is out, everyone is roleplaying Lady Gaga. Keep away this !@#$ from Classic and pls no BFA players coming to Vanilla only for unloking more fashion options.

So youre basis of hating tmog cus I didnt play retail vanilla, means im clueless? Sure. Youre using tmog rn and have been since it was released in cata. Hypocrit
25/05/2018 12:48Posted by Zjolnir
"I support no changes"... "Now how about ONE TEENY TINY little change".

No. Changes.

As far as I'm aware, Transmog was introduced because people didn't like the design of newer armour sets. I agree with the sentiment after and including Cata. Personally, I liked the sets up to Wrath.

When you saw a character in T3 armour holding an instantly recognisable weapon, it meant something. You knew that they'd cleared endgame content and you knew that they'd have invested a tonne of time to have that armour. In a sense, endgame weapons and armour were achievements before achievements were introduced.

Yes, we'll look like clowns for 60 levels. But until we clear the most difficult content Vanilla has to offer on our characters, we are clowns.


this is not a change, this is rather a change to the retail version of the game. nothing cahnges in classic
26/05/2018 22:44Posted by Ashiharademo
26/05/2018 16:18Posted by Exemplis
...
Can I just ask why its cancer? You and everyone and their mother is using it since it came out?


Hard to explain it to someone who didn t play vanilla and the first expansions to understand how was it back than when every piece of armor really meant something and only the visual of an advanced item or set could make an important impression and inspire respect on the others around or even could scare an enemy player away.

Now, since tmog is out, everyone is roleplaying Lady Gaga. Keep away this !@#$ from Classic and pls no BFA players coming to Vanilla only for unloking more fashion options.


Everyone is roleplaying their characters who, finally, can have an unified and personal look, instead of looking like a ridiculous missmatched mess. Just search for "vanilla dps warrior look" and laugh.

Also, look at what happened to shamans: do you want to raid in full tier2? Well, you can't because T2 shoulders are horrible, in fact, T1 shoulders are better! Maybe the 8 piece set bonus is worth using...

"When you cast a Healing Wave or Lesser Healing Wave, there is a 25% chance the target also receives a free Lightning Shield that causes 50 Nature damage to attacker on hit."

...nevermind, is trash.
Once you start making concessions to one group of people (like transmogs), others will want changes and before long we will be back to square 1 begging blizzard for classic wow again, and this time we wont get it. No changes means NO CHANGES AT ALL!!!!
27/05/2018 21:34Posted by Varleen
26/05/2018 22:44Posted by Ashiharademo
...

Hard to explain it to someone who didn t play vanilla and the first expansions to understand how was it back than when every piece of armor really meant something and only the visual of an advanced item or set could make an important impression and inspire respect on the others around or even could scare an enemy player away.

Now, since tmog is out, everyone is roleplaying Lady Gaga. Keep away this !@#$ from Classic and pls no BFA players coming to Vanilla only for unloking more fashion options.


Everyone is roleplaying their characters who, finally, can have an unified and personal look, instead of looking like a ridiculous missmatched mess. Just search for "vanilla dps warrior look" and laugh.

Also, look at what happened to shamans: do you want to raid in full tier2? Well, you can't because T2 shoulders are horrible, in fact, T1 shoulders are better! Maybe the 8 piece set bonus is worth using...

"When you cast a Healing Wave or Lesser Healing Wave, there is a 25% chance the target also receives a free Lightning Shield that causes 50 Nature damage to attacker on hit."

...nevermind, is trash.


1) Gear looks awesome. You can tell exactly how much this guy probably means to his guild and you should be able to expect atleast decent numbers.

https://imgur.com/3Jc4v2h

2) You aren't wrong. T2 Shoulders may look cool but the full set is not ideal.

3) 3p T2 is actually a standard setup because "Increases the amount healed by Chain Heal to targets beyond the first by 30%." The 3 parts everyone normally go for are Gloves, Boots, and Bracer. However you may need to use the shoulders anyway if you are not lucky on the drops because the 3 piece is very very strong.

Sometimes this goes up to 5p for the "Improves your chance to get a critical strike with Nature spells by 3%." though it's not advised unless you need some stats.

The BiS early game is Wild Growth Spaulders which will be in high contention since it is generally going to a druid first anyway and it is rare. That being said all shamans should be aiming for T2.5 for the 5 piece anyway.
27/05/2018 22:39Posted by Kagemoth

1) Gear looks awesome. You can tell exactly how much this guy probably means to his guild and you should be able to expect atleast decent numbers.

https://imgur.com/3Jc4v2h


And he looks like a clown. The point is, characters having an unified look is actually more RPG than looking like a 5 year-old colouring book. Also, I sometimes do transmogs that look "mundane". Just look at some classic fantasy heroes: mst of them don't wear flashy colors, overdesigned shoulderpads or brilliant baubles; they wear simple but functional attires. Maybe I don't want my character to look like a christmas tree or Pennywise's daltonic brother.
28/05/2018 01:07Posted by Varleen
27/05/2018 22:39Posted by Kagemoth

1) Gear looks awesome. You can tell exactly how much this guy probably means to his guild and you should be able to expect atleast decent numbers.

https://imgur.com/3Jc4v2h


And he looks like a clown. The point is, characters having an unified look is actually more RPG than looking like a 5 year-old colouring book. Also, I sometimes do transmogs that look "mundane". Just look at some classic fantasy heroes: mst of them don't wear flashy colors, overdesigned shoulderpads or brilliant baubles; they wear simple but functional attires. Maybe I don't want my character to look like a christmas tree or Pennywise's daltonic brother.


In your opinion. You forgot to say in your opinion.

You know what is not an opinion? That you as a player know exactly what you are dealing with before you even get charged and blood thirsted down like a dog.

Being able to perceive people at a glance is a very important ability to have. You deal with it in real life all the time, even if it's just at a subconscious level and it's one of those little mechanisms that help you survive.

From an RPG aspect you can say it helps add to the world you play in. You may be playing in a fantasy world but that world is not a paradise. It's tough because you struggle and fight alongside your friends to bring down bosses but there isn't enough loot to just deck everyone out and you as an adventurer sure as hell are not going to pass off a funny looking magical item if it can protect you better.

In my opinion it looks damn awesome
28/05/2018 01:29Posted by Kagemoth
In your opinion. You forgot to say in your opinion.


Nothing new, it's just the typical "Mmh... I don't like this, so no one else must like it either! I'll force my ideals upon others for their own good!". Report for trolling and move on.
28/05/2018 01:29Posted by Kagemoth
In your opinion. You forgot to say in your opinion.
I think this whole childish 'opinion' discussion stopper mechanism is starting to get a tiny bit annoying, to say the least.

Everything anyone writes down in this forum is an opinion... because it can't be anything else.
So it doesn't really have to be included in every bloody sentence to prevent from having your post rediculed. We are on a forum exchanging opinions with eachother.

So back to the issue at hand....

Even as early as during Vanilla people were of the opinion that armor design was poop in WoW. That some people managed to turn that defect into a function pretty much underlines and confirms that.

In FACT it was of such an issue they eventually gave us Tmog and kept it a thing up until today.

The only ones moaning about it are the people that can no longer guage their PvP opponent at a glance or drool over some stranger's percieved accomplishments.
28/05/2018 09:14Posted by Shogath

So back to the issue at hand....

Even as early as during Vanilla people were of the opinion that armor design was poop in WoW. That some people managed to turn that defect into a function pretty much underlines and confirms that.

In FACT it was of such an issue they eventually gave us Tmog and kept it a thing up until today.

The only ones moaning about it are the people that can no longer guage their PvP opponent at a glance or drool over some stranger's percieved accomplishments.


I have never heard people say the armor design for vanilla was bad.

In FACT (as you so eloquently put it) they ended up giving Tmog so people could mog into that gear. T1-T6 was by far the most mogged gear, along side slutmogs, while I was still subbed. I read recently that this has only actually changed a bit because the updated models and the old gear don't mesh well.

The thing you think is just "people moaning" is actually a big thing. I already said that perception is a very important part of living. You use it everyday, even on a subconscious level, to help you survive and navigate the world. It's one of those little details that make Vanilla feel immersive.
28/05/2018 10:18Posted by Kagemoth
I have never heard people say the armor design for vanilla was bad.
There is a first time for everything. But i agree i probably used the wrong wording to get my message across.

I'll change it.

Edit: Actually... no, it really was poop. I agree there were a few nice sets but bright yellow chests wit blue or pink gloves is really crappy design.

Some of the early armors that came through rewards and drops were nice but then the stats would make sure you could never have a matching combo going on.

And you keep referring to tier sets but the game was a bit bigger than that and most of the time you were running around in awefully mismatched questrewards and random drops.

Personally i always mogged my characters in low level sets from the Vanilla era.
I suppose that's where we differ the most.

I like the fact that a char looks scruffy while levelling. It makes sense that you don't have matched sets of gear since you are travelling all over the place. I also like that your gear doesn't look crazy. Could you imagine that? Killing some trolls for tusks in STV and then getting something that glows and crackles with power as a reward?

Absolutely ridiculous. It's how it is in Legion :D

I also already provided a reasoning in my previous post to the gear you wear to raids. I think it looks cool, but that aside, I already explained that there is practical application as to why transmog takes away from the game. Not adds to it.

Also I think you may be mixing up TBC leveling gear with Vanilla leveling gear. : /
I like how armor in vanilla looks. It looks all different. You have some really ugly armor and some great looking one. It feels more "realistic" in this regard (yes, clown suits are not realistic). And adds some hidden value to the weaker statted, but good looking armor.

This is true that even geared 60's look funny sometimes. Maybe if WoW had today's graphics, it would be possible to make all armor look better. But do you really want that? I think no.

I see no problem with having an RP set for city interactions if someone wants to. There are macros and addons to swap armor with one click. You can even mix armor types this way, unlike what transmog offers you. Transmog just breaks immersion by making looks irrelevant and seemingly was a weak excuse for blizzard to stop making great armor design.

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