End of Legion Mythic Keystone Focused Feedback

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With Legion coming to a close we thought we might try something a little different and collect some specific feedback on things. While we normally are reading tons of posts players make and sharing the details internally, we want to try collecting focused feedback to ensure your opinions are being heard. We will still keep collecting feedback the usual way but want to see if this can be something we use going forward.

In our first thread of focused feedback we will ask you about Mythic Keystone dungeons! We want to hear everything you would like to share on this feature we introduced in Legion. What you think it does well, what you think it doesn't, ways you'd like to see it go, how did it work throughout the course of the expansion, and so on, and so forth.

Also a friendly note that just because you see it here doesn't mean it will be changed or added - and this topic is not an indication of future feature development.
General Review:
M+ has been the best thing to happen to the game in a while. It gives people like me, who now have demanding jobs, to still be able to do challenging content outside of raiding in a group environment.
While the highest key level i've completed in time so far has only been +20, which is down to me not being able to commit time to forming a stable group or joining one, it still feels good to be able to complete it in time.

Off-putting Factors:

Class Balance - If there's one gripe I have with m+, it's how certain affixes completely nullify some classes in dungeons, or at the very least, keep them leashed for large parts of a dungeon. For e.g WW monks on bursting affix, being locked out from using fists of fury or their artifact ability on pulls like crabs/blobs in eoa, etc. It never feels good to avoid using core rotational abilities just to deal with dungeon affixes.

Scaling - Also, boss or trash mechanics straight out 1-shotting on higher key levels is no fun at all. Some classes, like DK's, have very limited defensives, which effectively locks us out of certain dungeons/bosses if we want a smooth and effective run.

I feel the m+ system will work a lot better if the fortified and tyrannical affixes were scaled differently, rather than where abilities that already are lethal in a +10, are impossible without farming some mid-tier tank trinkets to use for just 1 dungeon boss encounter (which is the current practice observed in keys above 24), as a dps or a healer.

Instead, maybe it would suit the system better if say fortified and tyrannical affected trash/boss haste instead of pure damage scaling, or heck, even a combination of both. That would at the very least add more richness to the experience, rather than equipping prydaz + a tank trinket on a dps just to survive 1 boss ability whilst doing the encounter handicapped because the wrong gear is equipped.

Either way, those were just my 2 cents.
I personally am looking forward to attempting some 23+ keys on this dk before the end of legion. Shout out to anyone interested in doing the same, can hit me up in-game :p
30/05/2018 13:25Posted by Taepsilum
What you think it does well

I think this much is obvious; it keeps the dungeons relevant throughout the whole expac, provides an additional gearing alternative and actually makes them challenging. Also seems to cater well to all characters as my low ilvl alts can enjoy their low keys with pugs whilst this one can enjoy 15+ with premades and all are being rewarded as opposed to it being exclusive to one demographic.

30/05/2018 13:25Posted by Taepsilum
what you think it doesn't

Not sure if it can be helped but it's a bit unfortunate that the higher you go, the worse some specs get to the point you end up needing to play a fotm spec if you want to aim for records.

Some specs are also superior to other for certain affixes so it can sometimes feel like a nuisance if you don't have an optimal setup for them. I don't know how to suggest going around that outside of having multiple affix setups per week but I feel like there could be a little work to equalize them a bit, in the sake of fairness.

The other thing is simply that I feel the loot from them (whether it's end of dungeon chest or the weekly cache) is a bit too RNG dependant because of the vast variety of it. Perhaps a way to target a set of items or even just one item over a long period would be an idea?

30/05/2018 13:25Posted by Taepsilum
how did it work throughout the course of the expansion

No huge complaints from me. They've kept relevant throughout the whole expac with their constant upgraded difficulty/reward scaling. I've had a lot of gear from them throughout my alts/main and a lot of it's been useful, especially on the alts ^^
-As a non-mythic-raider, I felt excluded from high keys until late in the expansion. I liked a lot that gear level was irrelevant for MoP/WoD challenge modes but I suppose that's not going to change.

-Pushing keys requires training, and training on all dungeons simultaneously due to random keys was a dauting task. Give us a way to select our dungeon and our key level for training on a specific dungeon/difficulty.

- "Take a break on Tyrannical weeks, push on Fortified weeks". This needs to go, even if it means removing them both. Also, most affixes punish the healer first and foremost. And please don't make graphical effects-affixes (like sanguine) hidden by terrain.

-High keys put too much emphasis on class/spec choices (hello, blood DKs, bye shadow priests). I doubt there is a way to counter this though.

-It would be cool if "challenging" wasn't the same as "speedrun".
Allow me to first start by saying that M+ is a great addition to the game in Legion, and this is my feedback on its continued development. As such this document will be focused on the M+ system and not how classes interact with this.

This is more of a note for mechanics than M+ feedback in general. Mechanics such as “Sunder” in Neltharion's lair should not be present without a clear indicator of the ability occurring. It’s near impossible to react to this ability, the best you can do is pre-empt it but that isn’t always a viable solution.

Specialisation Changing
With the removal of legendaries from classes being able to change between AoE/Single Target builds is going to be more problematic. You can achieve this somewhat by switching your azerite pieces around. However being able to change your talents in a dungeon would be a welcomed addition as this is not time trialed in the same way that challenge modes were. Alternatively, have the start of the dungeon be an area where you can change talents (similar to when you use the group finder).

In the current rotation there are affixes which are just not very fun to play with.

Skittish - All this affix does is throttle people’s play and doesn’t create any enjoyment, all it does is create frustration. Whilst it does help to promote tanks to play more aggressively, this is not always the case for a majority of the player base and has an adverse effect where DPS players throttle their own play to accommodate for the tank that they are with.
There are threat generation tools for DPS players to use (Misdirect, Tricks of the Trade) however these generate a pathetic amount of threat.

Volcanic - This affix is fine in theory, however the layering of the texture can make it difficult to see at times. If this is brought on a higher frame level to make it more visible, this would be better.

Explosive - Another affix that is fine in theory, however with cleave abilities not working FROM the explosive orb, this makes it very problematic for a lot of classes where their abilities to deal with this affix become severely limited. (Example: as a protection paladin, a lot of abilities simply do not work on this hammer, avenger's shield). If the explosive is your primary target, it should receive damage. Side note: would be great if these could also spawn in targetable locations all the time also.

Necrotic - This affix in my opinion should have a cap on it, to prevent the unhealable scenario from occurring where death is the only option due to fast hitting large packs of mobs on teeming weeks. There is simply not many ways to outplay this affix which leads to scenarios where it just feels boring. With a cap on the -heal amount, this allows you to have the option to try and brute force your way through and then have the option to kite, rather than having kite being the default option once enough of a threat lead has been generated.

In game interaction

Social interactions
With the introduction of M+ the player mindset (as it always is) is to find players who have done the key to the standards required. As there was no in game functionality for this externals tools became the norm (wowprogress and then raider.io). Having a resetting achievement per “season” for keystone master would help to alleviate this as a player is instantly able to see that a player has completed a key at this level this season. Similarly in the group finder tool you could potentially display their highest key completed as this data is logged internally, or if that character has completed said achievements (similar to how proving grounds completion is shown).

As the data is held on the characters, empower the players to be able to view it in game rather than to rely on external tools.

There is also an opportunity to associate the key directly to the player to allow for more API interaction to pull lists of what keys people have, or to have this information displayed in the character window/guild window etc.

Also there is currently a laborious pain to downgrade a key. Could a more fluid way of doing this be implemented? For example a drop down menu with a confirmation box.

Player Incentivisation

This is going to be a large part as with any additional content in the game, there must be a reason to complete said content. The chance for legendaries, titanforged gear and artifact power in Legion was sufficient, however it felt as though it was still lacking as there were many MANY scenarios where you felt as though you just spent a chunk of time completing a checkbox activity to get your weekly chest (once again for the same aforementioned rewards).

There is an opportunity to use this weekly best system further by adding a currency which is scaling based on your highest completed key per week. This currency can be used for cosmetic rewards or disposable rewards. Transmog sets, teleports to dungeons (which are locked behind achievements), satchels, titles (which are locked behind achievements), mount(s), pet(s), toy(s) to name a few examples.

Completion rewards
Currently as I mentioned previously there are plenty of scenarios where you have just completed the dungeon to only get AP, when your weapons are all 75, this is a pretty useless reward. Why not have the boxes contain gear + azerite power OR a satchel + azerite power. This satchel can be akin to the older satchels where they have a chance to contain mounts, pets, augment runes, reputation tokens, gold, war resources, bonus rolls etc.

Class under representation
Potential to use the Mythic+ pane more and in game statistics to notify players which specialisations are underrepresented and to incentivise those who choose to complete a dungeon with these specialisations with an additional satchel.

In time bonuses
Currently M+ is treated as a checkbox activity, get your 15 done for the week and get out there is no benefit if its completed in time apart from 0.2 of an extra item, perhaps add a bonus amount of azerite power as this is a lucrative resource again?

Temporary titles
Similar to how in Mists of Pandaria the current best/fastest group would be given a title that would be theirs until another group came along, this could help to provide an incentive to push higher.
I think that Tyrannical is the only affix which is unbalanced and need to be looked at.

Due to the difficulty of most dungeons, when tyrannical is active the party have to execute the tactics to 100% or they will wipe (or due to the amount of dead players the fight will take too long, so the party choose to wipe). The affix is essentially the breaker of groups when grouped with strangers: As it is so easy to wipe with, most people tend to leave after only a few tries on any boss, regardless of how far you have gone in the dungeon.

The health and damage is simply too high. As mentioned the group have to execute the tactics flawlessly, there are many mechanics where there is no room for failure; it simply one shot anyone. That paired to incredibly high health and it is simply too much.

A more realistic option would be to reduce the health and damage buff on the affix to a more reasonable value.
I think one of the most important thing the m+ system lacks is a proper reward system. At least for me, the reason why I'm not doing as many and as high keys, is because there's simly no reason to.

Why would i do a +25 key, if the reward essentially caps at +15. A lot of people are mentioning an in-game leaderboard, and I've seen there will be seasonal achievements in bfa.

An easy solution for this would be a similar system like in rated pvp. Based on score, in each season the top 0.5% players would get a title, mount or anything that makes being competetive worthwhile.
The Mythic+ system is the reason I am still playing World of Warcraft. It has been the best thing you ever implmented. We have been doing M+ a lot and it have always been fun, some of the best times I had in WoW (except maybe the first kill on Lich King).

Saying this the system is not perfect, I think that some combinations of affixes should potentially be avoided, I do like the randomness of them though as it mixes up gameplay from one week to another.

I do think the chest rewards should be looked into with maybe "bad luck protection" so you get something in the end.

M+ has become my main end game content activity and I could see myself doing this instead of raiding.

It saved World of Warcraft for me.

Mythic+ Feedback
After having done a lot of mythic plus over most classes and all roles ranging from low to high keys I feel confident to have a decent understanding of the system to be able to provide my personal opinion and pointers on where I would like to see improvements.

I love mythic+! But the repetitiveness without much reward makes it hard to justify the commitment of doing more than just your one dungeon for the weekly chest. For me there are a few problems I would like to see addressed going forward:

Gear scaling:
Gear scaling ends too soon in Legion. If you only do mythic+ you will likely end up getting to an item level where you can’t progress further very quickly besides the occasional titanforged piece or loot from the weekly chest. This is due to the low cap of item levels in mythic+. As this is done to protect and incentivise raids I can see that increasing the maximum attainable item level is problematic. I would still like to see it being increased. This could be done in bigger steps the higher the keys. It should be below mythic raid item level. But getting heroic or maybe even 5 item levels better gear from really high dungeons would be appropriate for the level of skill involved. (ie. 20+ on live legion servers atm)

Weekly chest:
I love the idea of working towards a goal for next week. But only needing one dungeon per week is to low work for too much reward. I would love to see a scaling system for the weekly chest that incentivises more play. This could be done by adding a second gear piece after x dungeons. It could be done by adding a few pots, flasks or a bit of food every y dungeons. It would love to get the chance to work for a better gear piece (ie. Titanforging or just higher item level) by doing more dungeons. Overall giving me an incentive to do more dungeons per week would be great.

I am aware that affixes are supposed to spice up your dungeon and make it different every week. This is only true for very few weeks. I would rather see a rotating mythic+ map pool from week to week. This could mean having only 3-4 dungeons per week on a rotation so I have to do different dungeons every week. I know most people don’t want to dungeons like HoV, Seat or Cathedral but only doing MoS every week is way worse! Blizzard tried to do this by forcing a dungeon on every key but that only means some people or groups were ether in a bad spot or forced to do the dungeon they did not like on a lower difficulty to get back to the dungeon they would like to do. I would rather have a free choice of 3-4 dungeons per week than having to look for a 5th random person or crappy alt that has a key with the correct dungeon.

Affixes are supposed to keep mythic+ fresh. Some of them deliver while some do not. I do not like explosive (to many specs can’t properly deal with them on higher levels due to them scaling with dungeon levels!) and skittish (this affix should not exist in a format designed with a timer in mind!). Going with the idea of the smaller map rotating map pools I could see a system where you can freely pick a dungeon and get different sets of affixes on your keys. This might need to be limited to a few to not get the same problem we currently have with unwanted dungeon keys. I would like to see new affixes on a regular basis that ether force us to play differently or change the dungeon with the timer in mind (I don’t think forcing slower pulls in mythic+ is a great idea).

For me the system of a key that has a certain level, degrades next week and is only usable in one specific dungeon is not great. I like the system in Diablo 3 where I can pick the difficulty that I have done + 3. This could be implemented in WoW. IE if you have done a 15, you should always be able to start a 15. If you got +1 you should be able to start 16, +2 for 17 and +3 for 18.
Being forced to use a key in a specific dungeon usually means with the huge amount of keys available that your key is not useable for the week if you roll an unwanted dungeon. Even down grading to a lower level is a bad option and makes it very hard to find people to help you if you do not have a set group of people, in which case you would likely just use the key of another person.

I would like to see seasons in mythic+ maybe with a leader board. This can include achievements, rewards from cosmetics to pets and mounts like in a PvP season. This leader boards and end of season rewards would incentivise more people to play more than just one dungeon per week while putting a higher emphasis on the competitive nature of high end mythic+.

The higher you go on your keys combined with the tyrannical affix the more you understand that the class diversity means a lot of classes just can’t partake in high keys due to design. If you don’t have a defensive trinket, high avoidance or are just a class that can survive nearly anything (looking at you WL!) then you are hard capped very early on. Even while being able to beat the timer dps wise you can’t do the dungeon as some abilities will just wipe you/your group. In my mind this should not be the case. A scaling to make it demanding on the healer is important but one shot mechanics shouldn’t be a thing!

Class balance:
This just means offense class abilities. I hope that with BfA we will get a better balance of classes. In Legion you had a clear winner for tanks, two upper tier healers and a few clearly supreme dps specs. A lot of specs where just not good enough from the get go. Prime example would be a shadow priest that just can’t do any significant aoe damage. The burst amount that clearly dominates mythic+ combined with killings huge packs during a stun/cc/interrupt chain means classes with huge burst potential and stuns/cc/interrupts are highly preferred for a quick and smooth run. In a perfect world every spec would be viable at the top end but that is not possible in a game as complex as WoW. I would still like to see at least 1 spec per class to be viable at high mythic+.

I would actually like to see a talent tree or rather talent choice similar to the new BfA pvp talents. This would give you a bit more customisation for mythic plus. It could also boost some classes that generally struggle to compete.

Overall I like mythic+ and would love to get more reasons to do it than just for passing time or some artificial grind that forces us to do it.
Mythic+ is great. I only have a few things that I'd like to get added / change:

1)Bring affixes closer together so there are no "dead" weeks (meaning weeks that are considerably harder than normal) or give us a way to actually choose affixes. Maybe instead of one combination / week let us choose between 3 different combinations

2)Make it easier to target specific dungeons. If you want to push a specific dungeon you have to get really lucky to get a key for it. Maybe make it so that we get to pick a dungeon after we upgrade our key or at least give us a few options to choose from. This point has been brought up a lot and I think it is a good Idea

3)Give us some form of ingame ranking system. Currently you have to use 3rd party websites such as raider.io / wowprogress to see the mythic+ "progress" of players. It'd be nice if there was a way ingame to see more than the weekly best times for each dungeon

4)Mythic+ seasons. Some of the beta data mining shows that there are already plans for something like that. Mythic+ seasons just like arena seasons would be nice. Maybe give the top 35 / 10 / 5 / .5% of players title / mount rewards just like in arena seasons

5)Incentivise pushing higher keys. Mythic+ Seasons would certainly help with that but maybe there could be some other form of cosmetic reward like a pet / mount / title for doing a 10/15/20 in time. I'm mostly fine with the gear drop rate in mythic+ but if you really want to grind gear it's almost always better to grind 15s instead of trying to push as high as you can. The efficiency of grinding gear pushing high keys vs low keys should at least be roughly the same.
As mentioned above. There is absolutely no reason for someone like me with limited time to push m+ . The reward caps at +15 i'd rather spend my time doing something else challenging like mythic raids than waste time to see a higher number. Going for MDI isn't incetive either because unless you have alot of time on your hands which people do not have it's never feasable and it's a drop down from the start.

The only suggestion i have besides adding a leaderbord and give Unique titles to top 100 per region. On each mythic + season is to divide them by spec. If i play an retri paladin in m+ and you just don't want to make us top dps i should not be locked out of a reward. Make top 100 per region per spec. Not class but spec. Top 100 retribution paladins in the region ,top 100 protection paladins ,top 100 frost mages etc. So on so forth,the problem with an arena type system is you have no ideea how to balance the classes ,proof is the MDI 100% bdks tanks,100% ww usage. This way if i am the 100000th player on the leaderboard i can still earn top 100 titles because 99998 players in front of me are FOTM windwalkers/affli locks etc.

Other than that please look at realeasing new dungeons with a more appropriate difficulty. Different to other games new dungeons should be easier than current ones so people want to do them and buff them in difficulty later in the patches and people won't feel the difference that much cause they have trained them already.

Lastly one-shot mechanics,it's been said over and over that the higher you go the problem is the mechanics doing to much dmg not you doing less dmg. My best bet is to add a Handicap affix,not kidding with the name,it's reminescent of W3.

Essentially what it does is that after m+20 let's say all keys have handicap affix by lowering the DMG of the entire group by 5% then rising. Somewhere at +25 there should be already the problem of people not being able to complete the keys unless they do ungodly pulls or play really well.
The other way you could fix this is add an affix that does constant dmg,like a chain lighting affix to bosses. Let the scaling go slow so you can never get oneshot,but the affix will wear your healers mana down way more faster ,makes you think if you want to bring 2 healers from a certain point like early COEN.

Overall the system has been really good overall in legion and it has not let me a sour taste of not being able to benefit it from all of it. I do not want in the future to change and in order to benefit the system you have to spend insane amount of hours( this can happen by !@#$ting on the drops,making them irrelevant with the drop chances,or adding a stric leaderbord that a non fotm cannot achieve).

Hope you fiind good ideeas and feedback in the thread and Please listen to EU as much as US after all majority of mythic + competition happens here.
M+ overall is one of the better additions in Legion, I personally enjoyed m+. At the points I took more pleasure doing m+ than any other activity in the game. However there are some drawbacks too.

Incentives for higher keys are not there
There is no good incentives to do dungeons past +15. Additional items you are showered with for completing higher level m+ are not appropriate reward for completing much more difficult dungeon. In-game rewards such as titles, transmog, mounts, teleports etc would be more appropriate. In addition, I would love to see PvP-like seasons with rewards at the end.

Class balance is not there
Disparity between some classes filling the same role are way too big at the moment. You rarely ever see any healer besides paladin or druid; tank besides DK or DH is a rare sight. Inviting shadow priest into m+ group is considered a charity. Differences between utility, survival and burst damage potentials imposes very strict group composition rules.

While there will always be specs that are better for m+ than others, no class should be shadow-priest-level-bad in m+ for the entire expansion.

Affixes that discourage play
Early in the expansion raging-x-fortified combo was removed from the game due to insane spikes in damage intake levels. Right now people outright dont want to play m+ on tyrannical weeks or weeks with bolstering-explosive affix. Most of m+ activity happens on "easy" Fortified weeks, when it is fun.

Please do revision for affix combos more often. E.g. seeing that people tend to play less on tyrannical, make the other 2 affixes easier on tyrannical weeks.

Seat of Triumvirate/COEN
Dungeons introduced later in expansion cycle should be easier, not harder than the rest. This makes new dungeons more inviting; people more likely to try them in m+. As player knowledge increases, new dungeons can receive slight adjustments to bring it in line with others.

M+ pugging relies on raider.io addon
People are now using external addon in order to see how good other people are in m+. This is very similar to gearscore situation. Is it time to make similar in-game system? This should also help with PvP-like season system I talked about earlier.
Just a few small suggestions, as most things (affixes/class balance/rewards/ranking in-game) have been previously mentioned and I agree with most of them.

QoL improvements: being able to search a dungeon by key levels, as well as by the dungeon. Whilst at the moment you can kinda do it by typing +10 in the search bar, this also sometimes includes random noise like dungeons that would say +910 only etc. It's a very small change but would be nice to filter results by a level range^^

Another suggestion maybe not necessarily m+ only related, but adding ability to make talent sets. The way you have a gear set atm and you can switch, I would personally love to see the same option for a few talents set-ups. This would still require a tome or a book to use to change them (or to be in a city w/e) but at least you wouldn't have to do it manually. I would especially love to see this if changing talents while in a m+ will become allowed.

Finally, someone else mentioned this, but a practice mode for m+ dungeons. I like the thought of being able to do a test run before jumping into dungeon. Normally I'd do it anyways by doing a lower level key first, but this would let you practice the level you're about to do. Obviously, practice runs would have no reward in terms of gear/ap etc and perhaps(but not necessarily) could be locked to some levels (e.g. if highest you ever did was a +10 you could try anything between a 0 and maybe a + 13-14)
M+ is great overall and its defo one of the best features that have been added but there are a few issues though.

1st: Balance specs. I know it would add another factor to making classes balanced since they'd need to be tuned for PVP raids AND M+ but there are various ways to do it. Adjusting spec abilities is just one way of doing it but you could make trash/bosses/affixes in certain dungeons to do something that prevents overperforming. Anyway you probably noticed the issue during MDIs and ranking where you MUST have a blood DK and resto drood/Hpala and other obvious things.

2nd: Some people (not me) find it pointless to push higher than +15 which makes sense so if titanforging is staying maybe it would be good to increase the chance of it when you complete something higher than +15.

3rd: Dungeon bosses (probably dungeons as a whole) need to be balanced especially on high keys with tyrannical. Its ridiculous when you compare tyrannical second boss in neltharion's lair at +18 with Hyrja. Moreover you MUST pay attention on the mythic plus versions of new dungeons you add through expansion or the dungeon will be dead on arrival for a long long time. It took a whole patch (if not longer) to resurrect CoEN and Seat is kinda dead to this day.

4th: it would be cool if you could target what keys you are going to get but if so dungeons would need to be extremely balanced.

5th: Similar to 3rd point. Something needs to be done with one shot mechanics.

6th: affixes could use more balancing overall. Moreover a certain set of affixes affects different dungeons in different ways, keep that in mind. Bolstering would be good example of that.
Incentives for higher keys are not there
There is no good incentives to do dungeons past +15. Additional items you are showered with for completing higher level m+ are not appropriate reward for completing much more difficult dungeon. In-game rewards such as titles, transmog, mounts, teleports etc would be more appropriate, as well as PvP-like seasons with rewards at the end.

This. A good reason to push high keys is really needed.
Everything was fine except punishing leavers, trolls and every other griefer.

Dungeon deserter should be implemented for m+, lasting through offline.

Instead of ruining a key for others or having bad encounters, bring back the reset function from MOP.

Also some kind of improved group finder tool would be really helpful. Nowadays we have these

3rd party websites that increased the gap on the pugscene.

You have to be really lucky to do a +15 way in time or 3+ without Raider.io and Mscore.
They do happen still but very rarely.

We didnt need them at the start of Legion we most certainly shouldnt need them now!
As someone who's been wanting hard dungeons ever since the end of TBC I have to say I don't like Mythic+. Or rather specifically I don't like the implementation of it.

The issues I have with Mythic+ are mainly the time limit, the weekly reward chest and the power of the gear you can get from them compared to raiding.

The Time Limit:
Firstly, the time limit often turns the run into a frantic dash to the end. Not the series of calculated and steady pulls I was hoping for. I find the looming countdown and the gameplay it encourages just makes the experience an unpleasant and rather hollow speedrun, but it also often leads to groups disbanding when they realize they won't make the timer they want. I would much rather have even harder dungeons without a timer.

Another major problem is that the item level of the gear is simply too high. Unless you're a full-time mythic raider the quality of gear you can get from Mythic+ generally exceeds what you get from the difficulty of raids you're running. For example if you're raiding Heroic and regularly running high-level Mythic+ as well, the items you're getting from raiding are generally inferior to your dungeon gear. Without Tier Armor in BFA this is going be exacerbated even further.

Aside from making raid gear nigh-obsolete, this makes running Mythic+ dungeons practically obligatory, for some guilds even mandatory. As a result of choosing not to grind Mythic+ in addition to full-time raiding I have consistently been 10 or more item levels lower than the rest of my guild throughout Legion, despite having the highest raid attendance.

It is simply not acceptable to have dungeon gear outstrip raid gear.

The Weekly Chest:
One dungeon a week doesn't sound like a lot but I don't enjoy logging on with my limited time and being faced with the same choice every single week: either complete a high-level dungeon that I have no interest in or lose out on significant rewards. You're not doing Mythic+ because you want to or because you enjoy it, you're doing it because you have to. This is often true for Mythic+ in general.

When I play Mythic+ or any other part of the game I will do it when and if I choose to, not because I have a weekly quota to fill! In fact this is more likely to deter me from playing it at all.

I like affixes, they add an extra layer of challenge and rotating each week helps keep things fresh and exciting. But I feel the dungeon's difficulty relies on them too much. I want the mobs and bosses to be more tactically difficult with fewer and less impactful affixes.

Having such impactful affixes, and the combination of those, makes the difficulty of even the same dungeon swing wildly from week to week. Shifting difficulty to the mobs will make it more consistent.

To Summarize:
I dislike the time-trial portion of Mythic+, I don't feel it really adds anything but an annoyance and a source of drama.

I think Mythic+ gear should be capped at the ilv of the highest difficulty raid you've cleared.

The weekly chest should go away.

Affixes should be toned down and mobs & bosses made harder instead.

Leavers should definitely be penalized.
It was my favorite thing about the legion expansion. The only problems for me were that runs of the same dungeon were not really different when ran on the same week. I also think when the gear is at most the same as heroic raids there is some room for more wacky and fun stuff in the mode.

I would really like to see some aspects, boss abilities or trash packs maybe having some random generation aspect to them. Weekly chest was also a bit too much of a driving force and it was pretty easily obtainable throughout, and the rewards going past it were very minimal.

I would also like to see some "keystone"-like items dropping randomly with more wild modifiers than the weekly ones without timers. While running against the clock does require a certain skillset and offers a challenge, it would be nice from time to time just try some wild version of a dungeon and try to figure out just how to beat it. For example double bosses, all murloc trash etc.
I saw many in the us thread complaining about tyranical becoming impossible at push keys. While it may be a problem, id hate to loose the feeling of an actual boss you get in tyranicall, even before very high keys, which is lost on fortified weeka where bosses ussualy dont even finish all their mechanics.

I also think its a symptom of a wider, but easily fixable problem: the dmg/health scaling in mythic+. As far back as vanilla player power that isnt tank related progressed in dmg more then in player health. Thats non an issue most of the time, but in mythic+ the dungeon scales evenly in dmg and mob health, while players power is much more focused around dmg (for comparison, i remevee hc raiders doing around 400k dps in Emerald Nightmare, whereas now they do five to six times that, but i doubt health levels increased to five times as high as it was back then). This means that the keys that will inevitably kill you wont be because things outlive you (since your dmg scales well) but because their own dmg one shots you (because your health scales poorly).

I think blizz is aware of this, seeing as how they made tyranical/fortified increase health much more than dmg, but its not enough. A very simple solution would be to have mythic key scale in health more then they do in dmg (for example, instead of the 8% scaling of dmg and health per key level we have today, you could have 8% more health and 6% more dmg per key, or any other scaling blizz sees fit).

This will stop dmg from being one shotty on bosses unless youre really not supposes to be able to do the key, alleviate the need for fortified/tyranical, and allow bosses to survive enough to actually feel like bosses even in keys below 16, which is a big part of the fun for me when doing weekly runs.
Thanks, you moved the threat post on EU.
M+ are insanly good idea which i hoped for a years (from WOTLK where dungeons died so fast). No doubt about it. I think the way how it was implemented to the game is big success becouse of its premiere some issues were inevitable.

1.I wish more dependancy on healers in M+
2. I realy dont like Explosive. Idea isnt bad, but the way how its currently working its terrible. Be outplayed by RGN isnt the fun
3. Skitish ok but not on bosses pls.
4. Class balance in Mythic+ needs to be done, BFA will be better i hope. (blood DK, WW Monk, Affliction Lock, Holy paladin and another WW Monk (sometimes Balance Druid) I think its borring for all of us :D.
5. The buffs in BFA could be a huge problem in M+
6. I dont have problem with Teeming currently but when you nerf AOE overall and tanks self sustain then this affix will be way to the hell.
7. Get rid off the kitting in the way how it works now pls, its stupid and terrible looking at. Mobs which cant use their abilities becouse of kitting will never be fun.
8. Make rewards for high M+ keys better please (+15 equivalents as the max ilvl peaces is just to low.)
9. Give an opportunity to the pug groups to reset dungeon, leavers are inevitable anyway
10. unavoidable One-shot is not about difficulty, its cancer,tie the groups most likely about timer then about luck.
11. Let Seagul affix comes to real :D, realy can you sometimes do an crazy affix as event for voluntiers. Out of ranking but rewarded as motivation to try it. (my option is istance were all critters are bloodthirsty elites which are using the pet battle spells agaist the players, we are very often knows a sh it about the pet battles anyway, so this would be perfect advertisment and fresh expirience for us).

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