Regarding graphics?

Classic Discussion
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04/07/2018 22:15Posted by Pelastus
No toggle please, it might ruin the old models. I want my old models so badly and all that. I cant stand how i look and run in legion. So Classic is saving grace for me


That's why I want an option that needs to restart the client. Not just toggle old models, but also old animations and skeletons.
I want no changes except the graphics. It is just stupid to keep the old graphics when the new ones are so much better. Wow is in !@#$ right now because of its gameplay, not because of graphics, the new graphics being just amazing. I want the old gameplay, not outdated graphics made 20 years ago to run on !@#$ty old computers.
If you really want the old feeling back, than go find some of those !@#$ty 800/600 monitors that you had when playing wow back than. And use also the old computers. You ll keep the graphics at such a low level that you won t even observe the difference...
05/07/2018 01:46Posted by Ashiharademo
If you really want the old feeling back, than go find some of those !@#$ty 800/600 monitors that you had when playing wow back than. And use also the old computers. You ll keep the graphics at such a low level that you won t even observe the difference...


Old graphics has already been confirmed so your arguments are moot at this point.

Classic is not just a remake but a preservation of the original game.
05/07/2018 01:37Posted by Ashiharademo
It is just stupid to keep the old graphics when the new ones are so much better.

It is just stupid to add the new graphics when the old ones are so much better.
05/07/2018 06:48Posted by Агграэль

It is just stupid to add the new graphics when the old ones are so much better.


It is just stupid to re-create vanilla wow when Bubble Bobble was a much better game.
I'd rather have the old visuals, especially when BfA is going to update a lot of creature models in the future (which, if character models are anything to go by, won't remain an option for long if it is one in the first place). I'd be willing to agree that the option is harmless provided it remains just that, but I have no reason to trust that it will remain an option.

We can argue about the visuals being better or worse 'til we're blue in the face, but all I'll say to that is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find the history and charm behind the original art design to hold far greater value over graphical fidelity. Others will disagree. ^^
05/07/2018 08:18Posted by Miylee
05/07/2018 06:48Posted by Агграэль

It is just stupid to add the new graphics when the old ones are so much better.


It is just stupid to re-create vanilla wow when Bubble Bobble was a much better game.


I loved Bubble Bobble too and Sensible Soccer but WoW is a far better game, like I have said before in a post about graphics, it's not about the wrapping paper it's what's inside the box that counts and WoW was always so much more than just a pretty game.

Nearly all MMO competition at the time had better graphics (Guid Wars etc) but the gameplay aspects made WoW hugely successful.
I don't really care either way. If they have a graphics toggle it won't affect me in any way, and so I will waste no energy worrying about it.

All I care about is the gameplay, mechanics, zones, quests, classes and content and this must be as it was during the vanilla period without any attempt at changing, streamlining, or adding of convenience features.
05/07/2018 01:46Posted by Ashiharademo
If you really want the old feeling back, than go find some of those !@#$ty 800/600 monitors that you had when playing wow back than. And use also the old computers. You ll keep the graphics at such a low level that you won t even observe the difference...


Resolution is not the same as graphics is not the same as models.

No changes. Although, if there was a toggle, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I'd just keep it old-style. That being said, I'd prefer there not to be a toggle at all.

In short Old > Toggle > New.
05/07/2018 08:18Posted by Miylee
05/07/2018 06:48Posted by Агграэль

It is just stupid to add the new graphics when the old ones are so much better.


It is just stupid to re-create vanilla wow when Bubble Bobble was a much better game.

Bubble Bobble was actually great tho.
But if I would want to play it again, I wouldn't ask for remastered BUBBLE 3D HD edition.
https://i.imgur.com/hlkuTcI.jpg

Well, you force me again to take part in discussion, while everything is already thoroughly chewed (why toggle is unfair and wrong decision, and why dispute is silly by default).

Let's for a change start with what has already been mentioned above:
They have already said there will be old graphics
That's how it looks, but! they didn't say this, and it doesn't tell us anything about presence of new 'graphics' - these are the only logical conclusions.
They have also said it will be the modern graphic engine
This isn't true, and we have already touched this earlier in relevant thread. What they said didn't concern graphics engine, it doesn't even talk about interface view, only infrastructure (type and organization of databases, conditions and mechanisms of client-server and client-devises interactions). And
Classic is not just a remake but a preservation of the original game.
yes, it's what they promised. That's all we have now.

What follows from this all (without speculations and opinions):
1) old 'graphics' really wants to come back to 'us'
2) fate of new 'graphics' isn't clear.

Let's take a minute to look at this from position that glass is half full. Theoretically, if this new employee handle to make friendship between these specific old data and new infrastructure, then they may also have opportunity to put old models into a new world (I mean actual game) correctly: return a working toggle (what still will be unfair and not suit my friends same as in WoD days) or.. finally make possible for old models become part of character customization, part of game world (as it should be, considering that designers were so unprofessional that they couldn't make true new models - that fully correspond to old ones, failed in their first and main goal), for example using same mechanism that they use to implement allied races. Last one is much more just, effective and most importantly cunning, since it will put some of my acquaintances https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17611973561?page=9#post-164 in a very interesting situation. And I confess without reserve, I would really like to see this. Oh yeah, that would be fun! >:]

..but, return to changed theme. Toggle was always unfair, because it violated game rules (open world MMO, same logic https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2407527-Zone-Phasing-Vs-Dynamic-Respawn-Vs-Population-Cap?p=49677098&viewfull=1#post49677098 because same rule), influenced gameplay (not for all, but still - violates rules of customization and player's rights of independent and effective use of this in-game mechanism which exactly is fair and justified part of gameplay), and in this particular case it also goes against developers promises in relation to Classic. So, you leave me no choice, and I have to quote again what I said earlier (although, as I can see, this doesn't save from thus gifted among underdeveloped people), for example - few lasts by date, in reverse order:
~ https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17620141932?page=1#post-20
~ https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17620191861?page=2#post-27
~ https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17619902243?page=2#post-36
Character models are part of gameplay (customization, for those who really care) not some kind of graphic settings. Better/worse are just opinions that don't have advantages over each other (don't even try, you can't prove opposite; but their complete differenses in style are obvious = change => bad designers' work is a fact; what? you don't agree? then new models are incredibly terrible, lets talk about this here https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17616773605 out of Classic forum). Old models and (even more) absence of toggle are part of classic experience (RP = customization) and part of classic base rules (MMO = same shared world for all (same rule says: no-CRZ and no-phasing)). So as they promised - same classic world rules, same classic experience.. and no individual opinions or wishes.
1) 7th (last), that models - part of gameplay, not g.settings
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17617932428?page=2#post-27
2) that 'toggle'-presence affects certain group of players
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17616976021?page=21#post-404
3) some general explanations, I hope, due to misunderstanding
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17617932428?page=4#post-68
4) about trust and criticism of possible future votings
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17618032940?page=1#post-15
5) a little about cartoonish style
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17618102372?page=4#post-61
So, this
It is just stupid to keep the old graphics when the new ones are so much better. Wow is in !@#$ right now because of its gameplay, not because of graphics, the new graphics being just amazing. I want the old gameplay, not outdated graphics made 20 years ago to run on !@#$ty old computers.
is very much debatable. Given all of listed and quoted above, you will have to agree that game have complex (much more pieces https://i.imgur.com/vn8fr6i.gif, not only in gameplay, but also in consistency of original style) problems and especially in terms of compliance with own rules by developers themselves which leads to a single predictable result - system failure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np1A4AGpqSo >:}

ps So in short, this
option is harmless
isn't true, it's very harmful and has always been so. I witnessed this.

https://imgur.com/gallery/rKFyGv6
[quote]

04/07/2018 19:27Posted by Tiptup
I've yet to see a good argument against having the option in graphical settings - it doesn't effect those who don't want more modern graphics on. Most games give you options when it comes to graphics, and if Classic still defaults to the old graphics and allows people to stick to them whenever they want, then there really is no issue.


Then you haven't bothered reading anything that anybody has said. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that it isn't a good reason.


Yes I have bothered. "I don't see why it's needed" as the person below you put for example, is not a good enough reason. Note also how you didn't even bother to try providing a reason, because you don't have one. Notice how all your words are just whiny, non-substantial drivel. Come at me with some good arguments because I've still yet to see any from you.
05/07/2018 19:02Posted by Tiptup

Yes I have bothered. "I don't see why it's needed" as the person below you put for example, is not a good enough reason.


Selective reading then. Perhaps look in other threads where I've responded to you, and those on your side of this argument.

Since we're pointing at comments from other posters, perhaps you should read the comment above yours?

05/07/2018 19:02Posted by Tiptup
Note also how you didn't even bother to try providing a reason, because you don't have one.


When you repeat yourself as many times as I do, to people not worth your time, you eventually get tired of responding and instead say "read what I've already written".

Which is why, my dear delusional idiotic friend; I will once again say "read what I've already !@#$ing said. There's a 20 page long thread that you've posted in yourself that has plenty of reasons as to why "optunulllll!!!!!!!" is bad.

05/07/2018 19:02Posted by Tiptup
Notice how all your words are just whiny, non-substantial drivel.


Look whose talking, %^-*face.

05/07/2018 19:02Posted by Tiptup
Come at me with some good arguments because I've still yet to see any from you.


And again.... "Selective reading then. Perhaps look in other threads where I've responded to you, and those on your side of this argument."

Honestly; if I had a dollar for every time I've had to repeat myself to fools like you, I'd be wealthy enough to quit my job.

Improved graphics and models aren't in the spirit of the classic server. The point of the classic server; the reason so many of us wanted it in the first place, is because the classic version of this game was a masterpiece, a work of art.

When you have old paintings "revamped", you don't ruin them to make them more appealing to a modern audience. You don't ruin them because some idiot thinks something else looks better. You simply prolong their existance, for a wider audience to behold.

I don't care the visual aspect of the game is ruined only for you, I don't care about "hurr toggle". I don't want icecream from an icecream machine that mixes icecream with piss. Even if the icecream I get doesn't look like it has any piss in it.

Your "hurr toggle you dont have to see it" logic can be applied to transmog, it can be applied to shop mounts, it can be applied to other races, it can be applied to friggin' T-morph. The answer is "no, go !@#$ yourself".

Disclaimer: a more polite response would have gone to a more polite poster. If you want respect, you have to be worth respecting. Tiptup is not.
As long as the Vanilla Graphics AND Animation are the default and the rest can be toggled in the option i have no issue
05/07/2018 17:23Posted by Армстронг
Well, you force me again to take part in discussion, while everything is already thoroughly chewed (why toggle is unfair and wrong decision, and why dispute is silly by default).

Your post was very informative and elaborate, thank you. That must've taken quite some work.

05/07/2018 19:02Posted by Tiptup
Note also how you didn't even bother to try providing a reason, because you don't have one.

The post of Армстронг provided a ton of information if you bothered to read any of it. I did and it convinced me to be against a toggle option. The most compelling reasons for me are:

1) In an MMORPG it is important to know how others will see you. A toggle option will take this away for a substantial part of the player base. It might not be important to you, but it is at the very core of an MMORPG.

2) It has been pointed out that there will be differences in how spell animations look, which will lead to differences in how classes are recognized in PvP. This might give advantages to people with/without the toggle activated when facing each other. You might argue that these differences/advantages are small, but "a toggle won't affect you" means no effect, not a little effect.

There are more reasons, but these were the main ones for me, also because they are unrelated to each other.
05/07/2018 19:02Posted by Tiptup
"I don't see why it's needed" as the person below you put for example, is not a good enough reason.

I noticed that this was in reference to me. When I say "I don't see why it's needed", I'm not presenting that as an argument against a toggle function. What I'm actually saying is that you are not providing a good enough reason for a toggle. Old graphics/animations/models and no toggle are the default, so the burden of proof is on you, because you want to change the default. However, most arguments (not all) that I see that are presented in favor of a toggle option are "I don't like old graphics/animations/models" and "It doesn't affect you so you shouldn't be against it". Both are equally unsatisfying arguments.
People that are against the option to toggle between the original old graphics and better graphics have mental issues.

This aint a joke. You really have a mental issue if you're b*tching about something that doesn't even affect you in the slightest or that doesn't change anything in the game other than a checkmark in the settings.

Holy mother of god. Please don't jump off something if Blizzard brings an option to chose between old and newer graphics/models.

I love the old character models. I love the old animations, but the world itself looks trash compared to retail. Thats a fact and if you're butthurt because a person - you don't even know - playing the game on better graphics, you really have issues.
06/07/2018 11:01Posted by Endlesscc
People that are against the option to toggle between the original old graphics and better graphics have mental issues.

This aint a joke. You really have a mental issue if you're b*tching about something that doesn't even affect you in the slightest or that doesn't change anything in the game other than a checkmark in the settings.

Holy mother of god. Please don't jump off something if Blizzard brings an option to chose between old and newer graphics/models.

I love the old character models. I love the old animations, but the world itself looks trash compared to retail. Thats a fact and if you're butthurt because a person - you don't even know - playing the game on better graphics, you really have issues.


I doubt they will redo all the textures of the items and landscapes though, at best you would have the new models running around the old world which would be a bit odd.
It's like an endless re-run of the same argument.
06/07/2018 11:01Posted by Endlesscc
you're b*tching about something that doesn't even affect you in the slightest

06/07/2018 11:01Posted by Endlesscc
the world itself looks trash compared to retail.

Again:
06/07/2018 10:25Posted by Hedhel
However, most arguments (not all) that I see that are presented in favor of a toggle option are "I don't like old graphics/animations/models" and "It doesn't affect you so you shouldn't be against it". Both are equally unsatisfying arguments.

And I don't even care that much about graphics, I'm more concerned with character models and animations.

But:
06/07/2018 11:07Posted by Snookiwooki
I doubt they will redo all the textures of the items and landscapes though,

06/07/2018 11:01Posted by Endlesscc
if you're butthurt because a person - you don't even know - playing the game on better graphics, you really have issues.

My apologies. I didn't realize we needed a deeply personal and emotional bond with a game feature before we were allowed to discuss it. I don't get why you're so upset about people discussing what Classic will look like.

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