Open Horde discussion on Sylvanas

General
i do not care about slyvanas , but she is better than anduin
01/08/2018 22:33Posted by Totemystic
i do not care about slyvanas , but she is better than anduin


Though Anduin had some pretty good character development moments. I hope they won't screw him, because he has potential. He went from a character that was blunt to a complex one. The worst character we have in the leader position right now is Baine. He is just straight up stupid. You would imagine that son of Cairne would be a bit better.
The problem is that the Horde is a bunch of randomers who don't have much in common. They used to have Thrall uniting the New Horde but that's long gone.

A quick run down:
Tauren - both variants - are good guys. Pretty universally, of the ones you don't kill anyway.
Orcs, Trolls, Goblins can be good, can be bad. They tend towards a cliche and are perfectly capable of going "morality, that's a thing for other people" Orcs - case in point Saurfang - have to do the whole Worf on a bad day - axe to the face okay, axe to the back bad. Goblins have to obsess about money & explosions, Trolls do the Loa and occasionally eat people.
Blood Elves were very bad, but became good (sort of?) due to the Light at the end of TBC (I think?). Really despite attempts its never been totally clear what they are doing. I think... Lothremar(?) got some story back in Pandaria, but meh.
Nightborne got added to the Horde in a literally 2 minute scenario (how lazy are you Blizz?) and really just seem to be there because Tyrande dissed them. We know from Legion the Nightborne are not all sweetness and light.

Finally the Forsaken and Sylvanas have been pretty explicitly evil from day one of Vanilla.

I can understand why this sort of screws with playing say an upstanding Tauren Druid or a Panda anything (but then frankly you are bad and should feel bad).

I can however understand complaints that the writing kind of sucks. It does. Sylvanas should have had a better reason for her actions. Maybe it comes over better in books or something, but it wouldn't be a bit hard to have something more in game than "lol magic rocks in Silithus".
Finally someone should have realized that "Burn the tree because a dying elf dissed me" wouldn't come across as cool or menacing, but kind of childish and pathetic.

If you want to show Sylvanas going mad with power she should have raised Summermoon (or whoever) as a Banshee. Would have been a cool cinematic, good tie in with Arthas. Then have the tree burning be due to something else that is at least a bit more up in the air.
01/08/2018 21:35Posted by Uncertainity
01/08/2018 20:37Posted by Jandi

Last time a Horde leader destroyed a city, a civil war ensued.

But I guess that's ok, cuz she got big mama boobs.


Maybe that's because he openly wanted to commit genocide on the races of the Horde? Exiled some, killed a faction leader (consequences doesn't matter since he went to Mak'gora with intent to kill him), tried to kill another one and used Kor'kron against the Horde.

No, it was not Theramore that sparked the civil war. And comparing Theramore to Teldrassil, well, nope.


You're right, a lot more died in Teldrassil. Sylvanas has also killed Forsaken, and Calia Menethil, Arthas' sister.

You're right, she's nothing like Garrosh, she's worse cause she has no qualms about killing Forsaken, Garrosh at least didn't butcher Orcs for lulz.
01/08/2018 22:51Posted by Jandi
You're right, a lot more died in Teldrassil. Sylvanas has also killed Forsaken, and Calia Menethil, Arthas' sister.


A victory for the Horde, not something that would spark a civil war, right?
I was explaining this a lot, check my posting history if you want to look into it.
What's wrong with killing her?

01/08/2018 22:51Posted by Jandi
You're right, she's nothing like Garrosh, she's worse cause she has no qualms about killing Forsaken, Garrosh at least didn't butcher Orcs for lulz.


Didn't he now?
02/08/2018 00:37Posted by Uncertainity
01/08/2018 22:51Posted by Jandi
You're right, a lot more died in Teldrassil. Sylvanas has also killed Forsaken, and Calia Menethil, Arthas' sister.


A victory for the Horde, not something that would spark a civil war, right?
I was explaining this a lot, check my posting history if you want to look into it.
What's wrong with killing her?

01/08/2018 22:51Posted by Jandi
You're right, she's nothing like Garrosh, she's worse cause she has no qualms about killing Forsaken, Garrosh at least didn't butcher Orcs for lulz.


Didn't he now?


Since you don't even understand the significance of the World Tree to the world itself, I see no reason to bother arguing with you at all.

Bye.
get rid of her, make saurfang or thrall warchief, hell id even take lorthemar at this point atleast he knows that burning a strategic base / port is idiotic.
Someone had to start this war. I think that Sylvannas was going to strike regardless and the perfect time would be after Legion, just when the Alliance thinks that things are calming down and there is finally peace.
02/08/2018 04:43Posted by Jurgenhan
Someone had to start this war. I think that Sylvannas was going to strike regardless and the perfect time would be after Legion, just when the Alliance thinks that things are calming down and there is finally peace.

Exactly. Someone had to start it and Sylvanas is the character to do it. I felt like they could have explained it better/more thoroughly, but no matter how they chose to do it, it would have been shocking. And that seems to be the entire point by Blizzard - to shock the playerbase and question Sylvanas and the Horde. I cant wait to see what happens in the future.
I stand with my Warchief.

She seized the opportunity to ensure Horde dominion as true warlord should.

Nothing wrong here, all you crybabies can go and play sims, if you want game without blood, conflict, war and controversal decisions.

Regards,
Imm
01/08/2018 21:13Posted by Vez
01/08/2018 20:55Posted by Suffering
She basicly said that the horde is important to her and worth saving.


You missed the whole part about destroying Life. Horde is now only the tool for her to exact revenge on the Old Wolf and the living. Which is also the most of the Horde. If she managed to destroy Alliance next would be internal targets - orcs, trolls and so - to kill them and ressurect. She cares nothing about the Horde. It's a tool. She went from interesting leader to silly stupid another end game boss.[/quote]

The destroying life part is a quote from the night elf. Its not Sylvanas words. NE said "you are at war with life and this war you cannot win. You can kill me but ypu cannot kill hope".

So Sylvanas burned the tree to kill hope. And she is not at war with all life. Many times has she tried to save the horde. Its just that her plans are yet unrevealed and she does not explain at all when sending her troops at a mission.

If you think about it Sylvanas is tthe one most interrested in a strong horde. Now more than ever. Anyone wants the forsaken dead. Noone trusts them (because of countless trecheries like wrathgate). She needs allies and horde is the only allies she has (they still does not trust her, because she still operates without explaining).

BUT she is right about honor. Its no honor to die here when you can die a much more meaningfull death for the horde.
Vol'jin had a vision before he died and he said in the cinematic:
"I have never trusted you.. Not would i have ever imagined in our darkest time that you would be the one to save us.. The spirits have granted me clarity.. A vision.. They whisper a name.. Many will not understand. But you must step out of the shadows and lead. You must be warchielf.."

There are so many who have forgotten this. So if you dont trust Sylvanas, then trust Vol'Jin's vision. This whole thing might seeems one sided, but there are things going on that is beyond our understanding.
Yeah, the story went waaay over the heads of the average wow gamer, just too complex for them to grasp.
Maybe the story writers are the one who got corrupted by the old gods and they will be the end boss?
02/08/2018 08:36Posted by Suffering

So Sylvanas burned the tree to kill hope. And she is not at war with all life. Many times has she tried to save the horde. Its just that her plans are yet unrevealed and she does not explain at all when sending her troops at a mission.

[/quote]

Interesting point. From strategic point of view she is doing what best general would do - consolidating power where it counts - whole Horde on Kalimdor and this is also the place where azerite is in abundance. But I think that her reminscenes of her 1st death were explaining thing a bit different. It was like saying that there is no hope and salvation in Life and Death is the only way.
For one i hope Horde will keep the warchief for more than expansion. That would be new. On the second note i really like the idea of the sinister and bit evil Dark Lady. If it is like you say then the Nelf dialogue was weak way to explain burning of Teldrassil. And she should also kill Saurfang for insubordination. Or turn him Undead.
01/08/2018 20:39Posted by Lucaan
A lot of people doesnt get that the horde are savage brutes going for might makes right.


If they were, Garrosh wouldn't have been dethroned.
02/08/2018 08:36Posted by Suffering
The destroying life part is a quote from the night elf. Its not Sylvanas words. NE said "you are at war with life and this war you cannot win. You can kill me but ypu cannot kill hope".

So Sylvanas burned the tree to kill hope. And she is not at war with all life. Many times has she tried to save the horde. Its just that her plans are yet unrevealed and she does not explain at all when sending her troops at a mission.

If you think about it Sylvanas is tthe one most interrested in a strong horde. Now more than ever. Anyone wants the forsaken dead. Noone trusts them (because of countless trecheries like wrathgate). She needs allies and horde is the only allies she has (they still does not trust her, because she still operates without explaining).

BUT she is right about honor. Its no honor to die here when you can die a much more meaningfull death for the horde.


Sylvanas won't save the horde coz she cares about them, it's only coz they are shield and a tool to keep herself safer. The forsaken are the same, just a tool to keep her protected through their unquestioning loyalty.

That is how you need to see her, just as someone who is in it for herself and that alone. All her actions just need to be asked like "how does she benefit from this?" and then things become clearer. The burning of the tree shows this, it's not a strategic decision, it's a personal one.

Seems to me she want's to unify everyone in undeath... If that isn't a war on life itself then I don't know what is. It would make sense, how much safer can she be than if she makes everyone like her?

Her motive for this is simple, to escape the punishment she knows is waiting for her when her time is up. More protection = less chance of using up her lives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzooSzyq9B8 think explains pretty well that nothing has changed she was always a evil bastard and shes doing exactly what shes always doing she never owned the horde any form of loyalty which made her appointment to warchief all the more stranger
01/08/2018 20:31Posted by Egil
Hi Horde!

So I've seen alot of these posts where horde are arguing between each other about being "evil" or "good".

I gotta admit that I did'nt think there would be so much negativity (NA/EU forums, who knows how China is doing.?)
And twitter messages (hench WoW story writer getting threats sent to her" etc.

I feel that we all should have a group meeting or something with those of you who doubt, not having these alliance rats jumping in every now and then just to cause more disturbance.

Long story short:
Our next mission is BFA, Horde vs Alliance, the best vs the scond best, David vs Goliath - the list goes on forever.

Conclusion
SOMEONE, had to be the first faction to take the bullet to start it all, and most of us knows that we (the horde) don't care that much if we're the one throwing gas on the fire.

Sure, Sylvanas killed some people with a cold heart. but......
C'mon, really?
You're suprised that Sylvanas, S-Y-L-V-A-N-A-S burnt down a city? "cold hearted"?
really?

I say S**t happends, lets make the best out of it.

EDIT: If Sylvanas become a raid boss then yes, I would be mad because that's pushing it to far.
BUT I've heard (what I believe to be solid rumours) Sylvanas will not become a raid boss. The Old Gods are gonna sweep the carpet at the end.


Sylvanas didn't start it. Genn did. He attacked in Stormheim while still under a truce. Sylvanas merely saw a means of payback (via Azerite). Po'ing Sylv is never advised.

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