My Thoughts - Sylvanas just saved the Horde

General
It is easy to say her unprovoked attack was evil, dishonorable and cowardly, however, I personally feel many have missed the point of why it was essential to do it.

The Alliance has made it clear over the years they could literally wipe out the Horde if needed, and in reality, they have the power to do so.

Can't remember which expansion it was, but Varian once led a siege of the Undercity, the Alliance literally walked into a major Horde city like it was nothing and could have razed it if it were not for Jaina's conscience. (and that is no longer there)

From one of the Novels, when the Dark Irons made a play for Ironforge, the Alliance rolled in there and made them fall in line or die.

When Garrosh push to far, Alliance took care of that problem. Yes the split horde helped, but the end result was the Varian's Blade at Garrosh's neck.

Looking at some of the other pivotal points in Azaroth's history:

WC3: Mediev - A human united the factions against the invasion.
Northrend - Bolvar, a Human took the throne.
WoD - Khadgar and the Draenai were at the forefront.
Legion - Khadgar a Human, and Ilidan (NE), Alleria and Turelyon all Alliance by race, if not by allegiance led the charge led the change with Drenai technology.

Whilst these points don't impact the actual war, it does feed into the minds of both the Horde and Alliance that history shows which side stands on top in nearly every major event.

Looking at alternative factions in Azaroth:

Kirin Tor - Although neutral, if they had to choose a side, it would likely be Alliance over horde.
Dragons - same as the Kirin Tor, given the history with both factions. (Orcs enslaving red drakes, and the War of the Ancients where they gave the NE immortality)

Other key points to note is that the most powerful mage in Azaroth's history were human.

The Narru and now the void are with the Alliance. Both literal god like powers.

The Horde have witnessed the might of the Alliance, and the hard truth is the Horde know they would loose if the Alliance really wanted to wipe them out.

Without a common enemy to keep everyone in a state of ceasefire, it is only a matter of time until one warmonging person from the Alliance realizes the massive advantage they have over the Horde and forces a confrontation.

With this possible future, Sylvanas had to send a message - the Horde are not to be taken lightly; and this brutal attack is a message that says this.

Although it triggers a war no side wants, it catches the Alliance off-balance before they get a chance to regroup after the legion war. This new war will likely result in skirmishes, a lot of losses, and an eventual cease fire. But as the horde sent a message which the Alliance will never forgive them for, but more importantly, they won't forget. They
Alliance have lost something big.

Even though the Alliance will win the war in the end, how many Teldrasils will the Alliance be willing to give up to achieve this? This is the message Sylvanas just sent very loudly, and very clear.

Ultimately, the short term war should result in a stalemate that keeps the Horde around.Also, it unifies the Horde internally, solidifying Sylnavans' position as Warchief, as nothing unites people like a common enemy.

So while we call her attack evil, it is in reality a huge tactical move to ensure the Horde are not wiped out by the Alliance once the Alliance regroups and consolidates all their new and old forces.

Just my thoughts on the matter :)
very interesting point of view.
She literally burnt the tree cause some random Sentinel gave her sass. This is just garbage writing.
31/07/2018 22:14Posted by Wutever
She literally burnt the tree cause some random Sentinel gave her sass. This is just garbage writing.


literally that `s why she brought all her forces there and all the catapults because of the one sentinel....
You would typically bring siege equipment to break an entrenched position like Darkshore. Even freaking Nathanos was like "Wait what?" when she gave the order. This didn't look planned and there is 0 reason to do it. Darnassus was unguarded. They could just sail in there and loot it for free. Instead of taking free sh*t she burned it.

Sylvanas is supposed to be a pragmatic and cold leader. This is not pragmatic, it's just evil and spiteful.
31/07/2018 22:21Posted by Wutever
Sylvanas is supposed to be a pragmatic and cold leader. This is not pragmatic, it's just evil and spiteful.


It is pragmatic tho. No more long ears on our shores.
All that might be true when VARIAN was king. He had his trouble trusting the horde and had his struggles with being hot tempered, which only Anduin could talk him out of.

Now Anduin is king, and has since he was a little boy proclaimed nothing but peace for both sides.

If the horde is afraid of the alliance, war might not be the best answer. It was the best time to negotiate a peace-treaty but for unknown reasons, this is not the path Sylvanas has chosen for the horde.

And besides, what you suggest would require depths to the story. I like it! - but this is blizzard. If you go to the bathroom, throw a plot up and down and do a flush, you have the next expansions.
31/07/2018 22:12Posted by Scryed
Even though the Alliance will win the war in the end


mate calm down with the "alliance is so powerful, bow down horde"

other than that its an interesting point
31/07/2018 22:26Posted by Fes
31/07/2018 22:21Posted by Wutever
Sylvanas is supposed to be a pragmatic and cold leader. This is not pragmatic, it's just evil and spiteful.


It is pragmatic tho. No more long ears on our shores.

Raiding an undefended capital city, slaughtering everybody and raising them as undead would be pragmatic. Fortifying it would be pragmatic (how the hell would Alliance ever take it back with even a moderate garrison? It's a !@#$%^- tree in the middle of the ocean). Pretty much anything would make more sense than this.

It's is like finding a wallet on the street and instead of taking it to the police or taking the money for yourself you go out of your way to find the nearest river and toss it into it just cause you didn't like the person's ID photo.
31/07/2018 22:14Posted by Wutever
She literally burnt the tree cause some random Sentinel gave her sass. This is just garbage writing.

No, this is typical Sylvanas. She has always been like that.
And I personally do like the fact that because some random Nightelf (who wasn't so random because it was the captain of the Darnassus city guard: Delaryn Summermoon) couldn't stop feeling entitled even when facing death, Sylvanas made a pretty clear point about who's the lion in this mess.
That wouldn't make any sense. If Sylvanas starts targetting the few World Trees that's left on Azeroth, she'll not only piss off all the dragon aspects, all the Druids on Azeroth would most likely try to murder her aswell. Even Druids of the Horde would desert her. BAD move.
Don't take what you read as there actual power level if so sylvanas is literally able to freeze demons with her scream and dragons are scared of it.

31/07/2018 22:12Posted by Scryed
The Narru and now the void are with the Alliance. Both literal god like powers.

Not true. but you can believe it if you want to.

31/07/2018 22:12Posted by Scryed
Kirin Tor - Although neutral, if they had to choose a side, it would likely be Alliance over horde.
Dragons - same as the Kirin Tor, given the history with both factions. (Orcs enslaving red drakes, and the War of the Ancients where they gave the NE immortality)

Kirin tor have over and over been neutral so prob would not choose a side but yes if they did it would prob be with the alliance.
The dragons you should not be so sure about first each dragon flight could choose differently. Also NE was not part of the alliance when that happened and only came in to the alliance when WoW started.
The blue dragonflight potentially but the rest would depend and also do remember that Thrall former horde big dog, took over the role that Nefarian had.

Again i will say this be careful in what you believe a decent amount of it depends on what side you are looking at it from.
And btw we have proof that the narru is not godlike at all in legion. (at least not all of them)
All of this talk about a pre-emptive strike and hurting the alliance would be fine if that's actually what the alliance did.

So far every time the Alliance gets put in a place of power they squander the opportunity.

The alliance is in an advantageous position to force the horde into submission after SoO but doesn't use it.

The horde has the opportunity to whipe theramore form the map? done.
Jaina then has the opportunity to return the favor and destroy Orgrimmar but gets told that "destroying cities is bad mmkay" and decides not to do it.

The whole pre-emptive strike reasoning would be easier to swallow if the Alliance actually did anything. The only Alliance character who actively seeks confrontation is Genn, and even that is limited to his vendetta against Sylvanas.
31/07/2018 22:37Posted by Niayra
31/07/2018 22:14Posted by Wutever
She literally burnt the tree cause some random Sentinel gave her sass. This is just garbage writing.

No, this is typical Sylvanas. She has always been like that.
And I personally do like the fact that because some random Nightelf couldn't stop feeling entitled even when facing death, Sylvanas made a pretty clear point about who's the lion in this mess.

Oh she made a point alright.

Nearly every single druid on Azeroth is now pissed, Orcs and a bunch of Horde are probably pissed cause muh honor, Anduin and the Alliance are pissed and will siege the Undercity (and win), Thrall is probably pissed, Jaina is so pissed she crashed a boat into the Undercity.

It's probably more easy to name the people that don't consider this a bad move.
31/07/2018 22:18Posted by Sicarìus
31/07/2018 22:14Posted by Wutever
She literally burnt the tree cause some random Sentinel gave her sass. This is just garbage writing.


literally that `s why she brought all her forces there and all the catapults because of the one sentinel....


Sylvanas said: "secure the beach, prepare for the invasion."

After what the sentinel told her, she changed her idea and burned the tree to the ground. Even Nathanos looked surprised.
A video on YouTube which was a couple minutes long will not, I hope have the full story. Yes we saw her burn the tree because a NE gave her sass, but is there more to it?

Or maybe has she become the monster that Arthas was.
31/07/2018 22:12Posted by Scryed
WC3: Mediev - A human united the factions against the invasion.
Northrend - Bolvar, a Human took the throne.
WoD - Khadgar and the Draenai were at the forefront.
Legion - Khadgar a Human, and Ilidan (NE), Alleria and Turelyon all Alliance by race, if not by allegiance led the charge led the change with Drenai technology.


Medivh was a Guardian, he wasn't part of the Alliance.

Bolvar may have taken the throne as 'a last act of service', but he ceased to be Alliance the second he put on the helm.

Khadgar is a Guardian, which means he's not an Alliance member. He was/is Medivh's apprentice.

Illidan quit being part of the Alliance the second he decided to go off and become a DH.

If you're going to go with the logic "Race decides what faction you belong to", then ALL of the Forsaken belong to the Alliance as well since they're undead Lordaeron humans.

31/07/2018 22:12Posted by Scryed
Dragons - same as the Kirin Tor, given the history with both factions. (Orcs enslaving red drakes, and the War of the Ancients where they gave the NE immortality)
Even though Thrall became Jesus using the Dragon Soul? The Dragons will never pick a side, that's their whole point. They're there to watch over their respective "Elements" and flights, and even if they were to ally then each dragonflight would choose a side on their own, "The Dragons" are not even allied to each other.

31/07/2018 22:12Posted by Scryed
Other key points to note is that the most powerful mage in Azaroth's history were human.
Again, Race does not decide allegiance. Another example of that would be Nathanos? (If you insist on going race, or even character model).

31/07/2018 22:12Posted by Scryed
The Narru and now the void are with the Alliance. Both literal god like powers.
The Naaru are creatures born of Light, they're not the actual light and they're neutral. "The Void" is not a faction, it's an Element just like the light. It cannot ally with anything as it's not sentient. It just is. Void Elves use it as their source of power but that does not at all mean that "The Void" belongs to the Alliance. It's a universal force.

The Horde has Shadow Priests, as well as Holy and Discipline priests and Paladins.

We even get Orc Priests in BFA because of the Shadowmoon Clan who are /Literally/ shamans that became Void Priests.
31/07/2018 22:26Posted by Fes
31/07/2018 22:21Posted by Wutever
Sylvanas is supposed to be a pragmatic and cold leader. This is not pragmatic, it's just evil and spiteful.


It is pragmatic tho. No more long ears on our shores.


Have an issue with blood elves, Nightborne and trolls?
31/07/2018 22:14Posted by Wutever
She literally burnt the tree cause some random Sentinel gave her sass. This is just garbage writing.


I think she was planning to burn the tree to begin with, making a command to burn down a city sized tree would take quite some organisation. If she wasn't planning on burning the tree down it would have gone like this

"Can't I".....

"Three weeks later..... Ok burn down that tree"

I don't know why people say it's garbage writing just because they don't like the outcome. It's just as bad as the people saying the Jaina video was the best writing eva. People are basing the quality of the story on how whether the story plays out in the way they hoped, it's silly.

Obviously I'm not invested and I don't care, just an observation of you folks who are over-invested.
We have our own continent now mon. The horde will no longer have scraps and be treated alien by the alliance mon.
Sylvannas saw this why can't other people mon?

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