Why is Master Loot getting Removed?

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03/08/2018 00:13Posted by Diviníus
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Fair enough, it's been a pleasure having a discussion with a reasonable person.

Think people have just posted valid reasons in these threads so many times and still had the same people come in with the same arguments (all previously refuted) that a lot are just overly frustrated, makes people mean :)


I found recently you have been a very calming person in threads iam greatful for that <3
Couple people in this thread have again acted very silly and obtuse and its great having some on ignore aswell now .
I actually like Jand he/she just needs to calm a little but they do bring up rather good valid points .


Awe, new friends :p

The ignore function is great. It's fairly obvious fairly quickly which people are likely to be reasonable and actually worth replying to and which are just going to argue for the sake of it.

And yep, much love for Jand, been a while since I've been able to have a civil discussion in one of these threads. :)
I can see it now.

Guild player 1 has an item that's 3 iLevels lower than the one that drops, Pug Player 1 has an item that's 15 iLevel below, Guild player 1 gets the item, Pug player 1 complains and gets kicked.

That's how it will go no matter what anyone else says.
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I found recently you have been a very calming person in threads iam greatful for that <3
Couple people in this thread have again acted very silly and obtuse and its great having some on ignore aswell now .
I actually like Jand he/she just needs to calm a little but they do bring up rather good valid points .


Awe, new friends :p

The ignore function is great. It's fairly obvious fairly quickly which people are likely to be reasonable and actually worth replying to and which are just going to argue for the sake of it.

And yep, much love for Jand, been a while since I've been able to have a civil discussion in one of these threads. :)


I know iam hot headed at times and very silly and i can be incrediably annoying and once i get the bit between my teethe i hardly ever let go but all i want is a fair debate and for people to actually read each others view points and even if they cant agree atleast try to be civil.

I do let myself down alot tbh and i should do better but after a recent forum holiday :P a GM just told me not to get to heated or if i do walk away try and calm or failing that place other person on ignore .

Jand does seem nice tbh and pretty open to things and i can see why people hate truely hate ML but it can and does do so much good when used correct .

Anyways time for bed and hot water bottle back ache ftw.
Because many people had negative experiences with it. Removing the possibility of having negative experiences keeps people in the game. (And yes, I do agree that guilds should have the option of using ML).

I am not even concerned about how it will increase RNG and how people will still have social pressure to trade their items etc. I am concerned that removing ML removes the MMO feeling. It is once again a step towards making WoW more single-player where any sort of communication is just a bonus, not a necessity. I think in MMORPGs too much comfort is a bad thing (e.g I think adding flying was WOW at first but hurt the game in the long run)

But I´ll survive.
03/08/2018 00:33Posted by Dottie
I can see it now.

Guild player 1 has an item that's 3 iLevels lower than the one that drops, Pug Player 1 has an item that's 15 iLevel below, Guild player 1 gets the item, Pug player 1 complains and gets kicked.

That's how it will go no matter what anyone else says.


PUG? We're talking about guild raids. If you're talking about guild raids that are in premade group finder, well that's another thing. Didn't even know guilds did pugs anymore, that's just silly unless it's alts and then it's (at least in our case) always PL, no reason for ML in there. Only in our guild runs it is.
https://www.strawpoll.me/16196879
Keep voting
If a guild doesn't have enough people they advertise in trade, those people would have ML. What I am really saying is that guild members would get priority over the one or two players picked up. Only 80% or so have to be in the guild to make it a guild group.
03/08/2018 09:25Posted by Dottie
If a guild doesn't have enough people they advertise in trade, those people would have ML. What I am really saying is that guild members would get priority over the one or two players picked up. Only 80% or so have to be in the guild to make it a guild group.


When 80% of the party is guild members, the party is a guild raid. So pugs that join that raid should comply with the established guild rules.
And if you're talking about them telling you one thing and then scamming people, well thats against the terms of service, and people get their accounts banned for months because of that.
You can just not join Guild groups that pug a few players but are still able to keep ML
or you agree to ML and you know that you most likely wont get any loot

was never a problem, wouldve been never a problem.
02/08/2018 14:52Posted by Kajmak

Pugs CANT use Master Loot, the game doesn't allow it. For a group to use Master Loot it needs to be a guild run (80% of the group needs to be guild members), an at that point you're kind of joining THEIR guild run and are expected to go by their rules.

I don't really think this was part if the issue though. The issue was new trials in the guild who didn't get loot, because the loot council just delegated loot to whoever they wanted, which is entirely possible, I have seen it happen many times during raiding.

02/08/2018 14:52Posted by Kajmak
1a. Loot Rules CANNOT be changed during/after the boss fight, the game DOESNT allow it. So no one can Ninja change the rules and steal all the gear even if they are in a guild group.
1b. Breaking verbally agreed loot rules is BANNABLE. If a guild run tells you that you will have a fair chance to roll on gear, and they break that promise they WILL get banned. Read the Terms of Service.

That is fine. But guilds also do it like this, loot council will have the opportunity to delegate gear to anyone in the raid. I was in a guild like this, I was a healer, they delegated gear to those they liked the most, but they did it very carefully to not raise any suspicion, and I didn't see this until they wanted me out, because the other paladin healer did more healing than me as pala healer. I was silently removed from the raid by saying that they were testing new healers, and this happened several times in a row until they didn't want me.

02/08/2018 14:52Posted by Kajmak
2. That sounds like a horrible guild, they obviously wont get anywhere progression wise and they obviously arent your friends if they treat you like that, find a new guild?
It's a horrible guild, but they will get somewhere, even far if they do it right. All they need to do is gear up those they want to gear up, and don't care about the rest, and then they can get other players with already good gear from other guilds to join them and replace those that didn't get the proper gear. Some guilds have inner circles of friends.

02/08/2018 14:52Posted by Kajmak
3. A guild that absolutely ignores trials when it comes to loot and then fails them for not being geared enough is idiotic. If this actually happens anywhere, that guild wont get far. But what is more likely to be happening is you (assuming this is your experience) are performing poorly and that is why they are ignoring you with loot, and that is why you get demoted in the end. It is easy to blame other things for your failures, but at the end of the day, if you dont put enough effort and time into the game to meet a guilds performance standards, they have every right to demote you and ignore you with loot.[/ul]

This is true, but it is also an issue, because not every raid leader is good, we had an issue where I was a healer, and we had maybe 3 other healers I think. One of the leaders would complain about my heal per second compared to others. The issue was that we didn't have any system of what group we would main heal (we had our own main tanks though). So we were all just sniping for heals, and depending on where you were looking, someone else would cast that heal, and while I am midway healing, that target was healed. Which reduced my HPS, however, this only resulted me being slightly below other healers some fight, and other fights I was second place. But explaining these things to a raid and guild leader who won't see the truth is impossible.
So this is gonna be a bit of a rant, but this is how the Three Guilds i have Contact/play with are going to handle the change. 1 Guild has already cut thier roster by 3 players simply because of this change.

The Guilds are going to be tracking looting a boss/items that are tradable. If an item is not tradable then that person will keep the item(obviusly)

If the item is tradable it will go to whomever can get the most use out of it on progress.

Trials will have to give away every single item that is looted by them. If they do not comply with this they will be instantly removed from the Guild. Not looting the boss on purpose will be an instant removal from the Guild.

Trials will not be taken on bosskills. They will be taken on the current progress boss (basicly ending progress untill they are a raider) They will then be substituted for a raider once we are Close to a kill. Farmbosses are just for raiders already in the Guild.

What does this mean for trials in perspective from Before?
1. They will get less loot than with ML
2. They will get less achievements than with ML
3. There will be less spots in Guilds for trials.
4. The demands on trials will go up in terms of experience required.
5. The trial period will last much longer, as raids struggle to do progress and keep track of trials at the same time

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Now there are positives aswell.
1. They will be able to see what raiding realy is the first night of thier trial.

Now it seems to me that the bad sides outweigh the good side of this, but maybe this is what they want.

And i am Writing this as a trial currently. I do not care about loot, that is not why i raid. I care about progress, and i know once i get accepted as a raider i will be showered in gear.

Now how would i fix this issue?

Well there are several ways to do so, but the most obvius one would be to bring ML back.

Another one is to allow Guild Groups to ignore ilvl restrictions on trading gear. This would make the change much less painfull, and would make the most sense to me.

The other fixes involves compleatly overhauling the loot system, so those are more unlikey, so i will not mention those.

Now i Think that the big issue on this topic, and why it is discussed so fiercly is the lack of Communication from blizzard on this. It seems like every single mod or Community manager/Vip have been told to not say anything in these threads, that is my biggest concern.
I don't really think this was part if the issue though


There is no issue... There was never any issue since WoD.

The issue was new trials in the guild who didn't get loot


Bonus rolls! Even if by some unknow to man reason, this is happeing somewhere, to some wolrd 7500th guild, there are Bonus rolls!

I'm tired of this... I'm tired of people pushing their ridiculous agenda that "Loot Council are evil greedy bastards", while completely ignoring that there is an enforced PL system within the game!.
The removal of ML has nothing to do with fairness and equality, but it has everything to do with aritifical gating, taking the form of RNG! Oh, you want that one specific Azerite armor; trinket; weapon that will boost your dps with 7-8%? Ha ha, no no, you have to get lucky, and if you don't, you are stuck on the gear check boss until you do!

because the loot council just delegated loot to whoever they wanted, which is entirely possible, I have seen it happen many times during raiding.


Of course you have "Mr no raid achievements". Come tell me they are on your other account *yawn*.

I was in a guild like this, I was a healer, they delegated gear to those they liked the most, but they did it very carefully to not raise any suspicion


Tricksy little hobbitses giving my preciousssssss to otherssssss. My precioussss!!! Hiss!!!

Maybe you just sucked? Maybe the other healer needed it more? Maybe you're just lying since all the way back to WOTLK you have no current raid achievements?

It's honestly impossible to have a decent conversation when people lie all the time with these vague generalities that sound plausible but can't really be proven or disproven (well this dudes are so bad they can be).

It's fine for you to have an opinion. Whats tiring is the fake CV that always accompanies it to give it some credibility. Just admit you have no experience so I can give your opinion the weight it deserves. ie Zero.
and don't care about the rest,


That wount work in mythic raiding the one that ML really affects and iam curious are you posting on another account or something as you seem to lack mythic and AOTC

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/outland/ihshan/achievements/feats-of-strength/raids.

Iam not trying to belittle you iam just curious at what guilds treated you so bad in mythic even normal/heroic ?
It's a horrible guild

Then leave it? I've been in guild where - exactly during one raid - officer got 2 items from mythic boss for his mage, then he announced to everyone that he changes main to hunter and he doesn't care about anyone's opinion. Lol, me and a lot other people left the guild cause of that.
Bumping the thread with the original question. Why is Master Loot getting removed?

#prayforbluepost

But i guess they are too busy to answer our silly complaints, too busy answering serious threads such as "Can women be Raid Leaders" etc. I had a list of 10-20 screencaps like that on the old thread, the one they deleted.
Speaking of the deleted thread, we're still to recieve an answer to why it was deleted, some LFR hero in blizz staff got offended by us asking questions?
03/08/2018 13:50Posted by Kajmak
some LFR hero in blizz staff got offended by us asking questions?


Iam on your side for getting ML back but your going about it the wrong way ,you want to be taking serious get rid of the attacks and calm down .
https://gyazo.com/148cb1095bf6d621688015e170806ee7
https://gyazo.com/bcdadc8a8c00f2c15edabeab92420382
https://gyazo.com/b86d8e0c083ec42fa4de0648aff2b2b3
https://gyazo.com/4dbe2f87646c0daedf2c430354e9bb91
https://gyazo.com/ff04549dcc4a65860465c7dd9f3ba01e
03/08/2018 13:56Posted by Diviníus
Iam on your side for getting ML back but your going about it the wrong way ,you want to be taking serious get rid of the attacks and calm down .


The thread did get removed, it did not break any of the forum rules and there was no notice as to why it was removed. I think it is a fair thing to be angry about.
03/08/2018 14:00Posted by Kajmak
03/08/2018 13:56Posted by Diviníus
Iam on your side for getting ML back but your going about it the wrong way ,you want to be taking serious get rid of the attacks and calm down .


The thread did get removed, it did not break any of the forum rules and there was no notice as to why it was removed. I think it is a fair thing to be angry about.


You can be angry but in an adult manner and construtive manner calling blizz employee's LFR hero's isnt either and makes you look niave and silly.

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