Nerf Legion flying?

General
17/08/2018 11:08Posted by Sclarf
17/08/2018 10:40Posted by Lluvia
Actually, it's not vindictive at all. People worked hard during Legion to earn their flying, so why should you get the easy way out?

Seems pretty vindictive to me xD

Also the argument doesn't really make much sense. So what if people had to earn it during Legion? It was current and relevant content. Expecting people to go through that when the content is no longer current is pretty unreasonable.

I earned flying during Legion, and I would have no problem with Blizzard making it purchasable from flight trainer.

Same here.
I find this whole argument against easing the old pathfinders is similar to someone saying it is not right for the price of a ps3 console to drop over time, especially after ps4 came out cause he got his ps3 when it had just came out so everyone should pay the same price.

Revered is to high for dead content that is only for good for leveling now
Why stop at flying, people have worked hard farming old content for pets, transmogs, reps, recipes, etc etc

Old content should be given once a level is reached.

Hit level 60 - vanilla is now old content
- All vanilla transmogs gifted to me
- All vanilla mounts given to me
- All vanilla pets given to me at level 15 (i think)
- All vanilla achievements marked as completed
- All vanilla quests still to complete are marked as completed and gold given as reward
- etc

Hit level 80 - TBC and WotLK is now old content
- All TBC and WotLK transmogs gifted to me
- All TBC and WotLK mounts given to me
- All TBC and WotLK pets given to me at level 25
- All TBC and WotLK achievements marked as completed
- All TBC and WotLK quests still to complete are marked as completed and gold given as reward
- etc

Hit level 90 - Cata and MoP is now old content
- All Cata and MoP transmogs gifted to me
- All Cata and MoP mounts given to me
- All Cata and MoP pets given to me at level 25
- All Cata and MoP achievements marked as completed
- All Cata and MoP quests still to complete are marked as completed and gold given as reward
- etc

Hit level 100 - WoD now old content
- All WoD transmogs gifted to me
- All WoD mounts given to me
- All WoD pets given to me at level 25
- All WoD achievements marked as completed
- All WoD quests still to complete are marked as completed and gold given as reward
- etc

Hit level 100 - Legion now old content
- All Legion transmogs gifted to me
- All Legion mounts given to me
- All Legion pets given to me at level 25
- All Legion achievements marked as completed
- All Legion quests still to complete are marked as completed and gold given as reward
- etc

Sorry, but the "it's now old content" doesn't fly (no pun intended)
How are the reputations less useful? They give the exact same rewards in Battle for Azeroth as they did in Legion.
17/08/2018 09:18Posted by Yaranldor
For people who have never played Legion its very time spending to unlock the Legion flying.


That hasn't changed. You could argue it's easier, but it doesn't necessarily take less time because of the time-gating preventing you from progressing in some instances.

17/08/2018 09:18Posted by Yaranldor
You have to grind a lot of rep for factions who are useless now on BfA.


But are useful for achievements, which I will be going for when there's content droughts, I've reached the end of my personal progression or when I'm bored.

It'd be great if everything was useful at all levels all the time, but despite my suggestions for years to improve the experience for all levels, attempts have been unsuccessful.

17/08/2018 09:18Posted by Yaranldor
There should be some catch up for players who skipped a expansion to make it easier. If you have played the hole expansion its easy to unlock the flying for WoD or Legion.


You'll find it easier by default when you reach level 120. It was more convenient, but when I did Draenor Pathfinder at 110 I found it easier because I was pulling less mobs, which in turn meant less dazing, and I could kill things faster for reputations such as the Saberstalkers. But still there were dailies, and in the case of Legion, it's every few hours when you can continue progress in certain ways. I suppose you're stuck between a rock and a hard place when choosing between which to go for next; the certainty of 24 hour resets, or the guessing game of Legion's WQ and emissary chest spawns.

What nerfs would you suggest? Mine would be to allow people to farm Fel-Corrupted Apexis Shards and hand them in after doing the daily for a greater amount of rep for that day, or change it from a daily to a repeatable quest so people can go more at their own pace. For Vol'jin's Headhunters, applying a reputation points gain per mob and more to rares. I think that'd encourage group forming, similar to the Saberstalkers. I had quite a pleasant time doing that one when people communicated!

In the case of Legion, as has been suggested multiple times elsewhere, the reputation numbers could just go up, applying reputation to mobs and rares for the faction appropriate in that area, and letting people reroll/choose their own emissary chest reward but placing it on a cooldown.

17/08/2018 09:18Posted by Yaranldor
It will take around 3 weeks to unlock it i guess, if i do that i am behind on the BfA content.


Then don't do it. My intention is not rudeness, it's sound advice: do the things you enjoy doing. If that's BfA content, do BfA content. You paid £50 for it, and you're paying a tenner a month to gain access to the bleeding thing.

I can understand if you've got alts that are stuck in Draenor or the Broken Isles and you want to get them to the max level to play in BfA, but you've got to make the choice. That said though, I wouldn't complain if there were more means of getting reputation like a weekly event ("Snorelord of Draebore (Weekly Buff): Gain 25% extra reputation with all Draenor factions. Seven days remaining, etc).

17/08/2018 09:18Posted by Yaranldor
The agrument that you will "enjoy" the zones better is invalid since noone is still playing the older contents.


I've never seen that argument before, but to each their own. Still, I agree. The fun I get out of rep grinding is a constant stream of chat with guildies and mindless choppin', and sometimes that's all you need.

In all, I've no complaints. I'm not vindictive enough to tell you off because I did it and you should too, but I think there should be some requirements for these things. Otherwise, when do you stop? Presumably when something replaces Pathfinder (which would be nice as this is the third expansion to use it now).
17/08/2018 11:45Posted by Goresh
Why stop at flying, people have worked hard farming old content for pets, transmogs, reps, recipes, etc etc

Old content should be given once a level is reached.

Hit level 60 - vanilla is now old content
- All vanilla transmogs gifted to me
- All vanilla mounts given to me
- All vanilla pets given to me at level 15 (i think)
- All vanilla achievements marked as completed
- All vanilla quests still to complete are marked as completed and gold given as reward
- etc

Hit level 80 - TBC and WotLK is now old content
- All TBC and WotLK transmogs gifted to me
- All TBC and WotLK mounts given to me
- All TBC and WotLK pets given to me at level 25
- All TBC and WotLK achievements marked as completed
- All TBC and WotLK quests still to complete are marked as completed and gold given as reward
- etc

Hit level 90 - Cata and MoP is now old content
- All Cata and MoP transmogs gifted to me
- All Cata and MoP mounts given to me
- All Cata and MoP pets given to me at level 25
- All Cata and MoP achievements marked as completed
- All Cata and MoP quests still to complete are marked as completed and gold given as reward
- etc

Hit level 100 - WoD now old content
- All WoD transmogs gifted to me
- All WoD mounts given to me
- All WoD pets given to me at level 25
- All WoD achievements marked as completed
- All WoD quests still to complete are marked as completed and gold given as reward
- etc

Hit level 100 - Legion now old content
- All Legion transmogs gifted to me
- All Legion mounts given to me
- All Legion pets given to me at level 25
- All Legion achievements marked as completed
- All Legion quests still to complete are marked as completed and gold given as reward
- etc

Sorry, but the "it's now old content" doesn't fly (no pun intended)


This.

It's a bad path to start down if they just give things away. Eventually you'll just log in, press a button and BAM game completed. Then you'll be here crying there is nothing to do.
I disliked the rep grinding part of it. If by doing the questing you ended up exalted it would make more sense. As in: either quest or grind to get it. Options you know, they are great.

The way Blizz does it: its all about wasting more of your time.

Just because I spend quite a bit of time on it doesn't make me too stubborn to change it. It is content on life support after all.
In all honesty, I don't see why they can't just give out a Tome of xxx flying once the new expansion is out or have been out for X months. It's not current content any more, and for returning players it's rather annoying having to grind out flying for a dead area.
17/08/2018 11:45Posted by Goresh
Why stop at flying, people have worked hard farming old content for pets, transmogs, reps, recipes, etc etc

Old content should be given once a level is reached.

Hit level 60 - vanilla is now old content
- All vanilla transmogs gifted to me
- All vanilla mounts given to me
- All vanilla pets given to me at level 15 (i think)
- All vanilla achievements marked as completed
- All vanilla quests still to complete are marked as completed and gold given as reward
- etc

Hit level 80 - TBC and WotLK is now old content
- All TBC and WotLK transmogs gifted to me
- All TBC and WotLK mounts given to me
- All TBC and WotLK pets given to me at level 25
- All TBC and WotLK achievements marked as completed
- All TBC and WotLK quests still to complete are marked as completed and gold given as reward
- etc

Hit level 90 - Cata and MoP is now old content
- All Cata and MoP transmogs gifted to me
- All Cata and MoP mounts given to me
- All Cata and MoP pets given to me at level 25
- All Cata and MoP achievements marked as completed
- All Cata and MoP quests still to complete are marked as completed and gold given as reward
- etc

Hit level 100 - WoD now old content
- All WoD transmogs gifted to me
- All WoD mounts given to me
- All WoD pets given to me at level 25
- All WoD achievements marked as completed
- All WoD quests still to complete are marked as completed and gold given as reward
- etc

Hit level 100 - Legion now old content
- All Legion transmogs gifted to me
- All Legion mounts given to me
- All Legion pets given to me at level 25
- All Legion achievements marked as completed
- All Legion quests still to complete are marked as completed and gold given as reward
- etc

Sorry, but the "it's now old content" doesn't fly (no pun intended)

This massive strawman does not fly either.
Your massive strawman does not fly either.


No, because he's made of straw and is not suited for flight.

Edit:
It's people perception and what they like and do not like to do.

Unlocking flying to some is a chore but they want to fly so they complain it should be easier.
Players want X mount but the drop rate is 0.000001% so they complain and say it should be easier.
Players want X rep for reason Y but don't want to grind the rep so they complain the rep either needs dropping or rep gains boosted.

Players always complain about what they want but can't be bothered to get.
17/08/2018 09:18Posted by Yaranldor
For people who have never played Legion its very time spending to unlock the Legion flying. You have to grind a lot of rep for factions who are useless now on BfA.

There should be some catch up for players who skipped a expansion to make it easier. If you have played the hole expansion its easy to unlock the flying for WoD or Legion.

It will take around 3 weeks to unlock it i guess, if i do that i am behind on the BfA content. I see a lot of people complaining a bout this, why not a system as MoP?

The agrument that you will "enjoy" the zones better is invalid since noone is still playing the older contents.

I once felt this way, after I first received Legion, but then I started to play each zone and get into the story. While it may seem like quite a bit to unlock flying, all you have to do is quest the zones, do World Quests, complete your class Hall and you will have flying. It took me about a month or so, because I cannot play for many hours each day, but it is doable. Not to mention that when Legion first came out the requirements were far more than they are now. You can do it, just create a plan and go at it.
I did not play much during Legion content and therefore I do not have Legion Pathfinder yet. I am not looking forward having to grind for the needed Loremaster/rep.. BUT I want flying, and therefore I´m going to do what I have to in order to get that Pathfinder achievement.
I remember doing the WoD Pathfinder - it felt GOOD once it was completed :-)
(and it is account wide, not a bad thing)

I do not know if this reply makes any sense.
17/08/2018 13:27Posted by Goresh
Your massive strawman does not fly either.


No, because he's made of straw and is not suited for flight.

Edit:
It's people perception and what they like and do not like to do.

Unlocking flying to some is a chore but they want to fly so they complain it should be easier.
Players want X mount but the drop rate is 0.000001% so they complain and say it should be easier.
Players want X rep for reason Y but don't want to grind the rep so they complain the rep either needs dropping or rep gains boosted.

Players always complain about what they want but can't be bothered to get.

What about people who have it but still want others to get it easier? We are not unicorns.

Also please look into what a strawman argument is if you do not know (if you do know then please do not make them if you can)
17/08/2018 13:38Posted by Tusneldah
I remember doing the WoD Pathfinder - it felt GOOD once it was completed :-)
(and it is account wide, not a bad thing)

"This !@#$ is finaly done."
Yes, really good feeling.

Flying has become a Pita for Blizzard because theyve lost the touch to design zones that accomodate it.
But they cant remove it without losing half their subs.
So they gate it as much as they can.
And in Legion they even had the balls to then introduce Argus, making the flying that you finaly unlocked become useless for the rest of the expansion.
"Take that playerbase" for not enjoying the game the way Blizzards deems worthy.
As someone who does not yet have Legion flying, I would say that it is too soon to nerf it. I'd be in favor of nerfing it 6-12 months from now, but we are still fresh into new content and Legion's content is still quite relevant in some ways, especially for reputations.
I agree. I returned ~1 week ago and have never played WoD nor Legion. I really enjoyed leveling 90-100 in the Wod area's, however I am struggling in Legion area's due to having not the ability to fly.
So I wanted flying in WoD as I knew I'd enjoy it when levelling alts.

Guess what I did.

I went and got the requirements for it. Not once did I complain about it. Also i got it maybe a few months ago. How have we arrived at a situation where things should just be given out just because?
17/08/2018 12:03Posted by Shopkeeper
I disliked the rep grinding part of it. If by doing the questing you ended up exalted it would make more sense. As in: either quest or grind to get it. Options you know, they are great.

The way Blizz does it: its all about wasting more of your time.

Just because I spend quite a bit of time on it doesn't make me too stubborn to change it. It is content on life support after all.


I wouldn't call the Legion reputations grinding. The Draenor ones where all you could do was kill the same mobs in a small area until Exalted, those were grinding. Having to repeat things like world quests, which are equivalent to dailies, isn't grinding, it's just earning reputation.
17/08/2018 13:22Posted by Dornisus
In all honesty, I don't see why they can't just give out a Tome of xxx flying once the new expansion is out or have been out for X months.


I know it's a waste of time, what else is a waste of time is old raids!

Once they are no longer relevant they should just turn the final boss into a vendor selling the mount & transmog, I shouldn't have to run old stuff with a 1% drop chance mount when for everyone is it was a guaranteed drop.....
17/08/2018 15:59Posted by Eosferon
Also please look into what a strawman argument is if you do not know (if you do know then please do not make them if you can)


If you're were trying not to sound condescending you failed. I do know what a strawman argument is and you clearly missed the point.

I'll try and explain better using a fictitious thing called Achievement A which take a lot of effort to do. To this there are three types of players

1 - Those who will just go and do it (either quickly or slowly over time)
2 - Those who don't care about doing it
3 - Those who want it without the effort of doing it.

The problem are the number 3 players and we see it on the forums all the time
Allied Races - either the content is old or the grind is too hard
Flying - either the content is old or the grind is too hard

But we've seen the same posts about other things like drop rates for mounts / pets / recipes / rare spawns / transmog drops etc

If these players got their way then we would get what I posted and everything old just handed out on the cheap for no effort. It's not the same players wanting everything, i.e. somebody who is a #3 with flying maybe a #1 with allied races etc.

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