[H-RP] The Talanri (Zandalari Military Guild)

Argent Dawn
20/08/2018 13:20Posted by Oakuatl
I'm not looking at OOC Game Mechanic class


17/08/2018 01:30Posted by Kargroth
Pa’kura
Patron Loa: Pa’ku
Game Class: Hunters and Rogues


you've kinda gone against what you're saying. i'm agreeing with zullin here and saying that these sorts of things seem a bit ??? when talking about which class is representative of what loa, or what not

arguably, you can tie some classes to the loas, but because there's so many loas you can't really be like "yeah, you're a druid ooc so you're a gonk follower IC", a druid can get away with being a follower of kimbul, for instance (with the balance of power cat form), or even a follower of pa'ku (winds), EVEN worshipping elune as part of the lune'alai or whatever they're called, and a shaman can settle with akunda (who heals and deals damage with lightning even though the blessing looks 'holy') or pa'ku e.g.

it may be better to let people decide what loa they want to follow rather than forcing them into those roles. some people might want to play a warrior or rogue who follows bwonsamdi, after all
21/08/2018 06:54Posted by Carvian
you've kinda gone against what you're saying.


Not at all, its important that the quote you referenced is used in the context of the sentence it was in though.

When planning the guild I'm not looking at OOC Game Mechanic class, I'm looking at the units shown to be in the army ingame, and then pairing them class which can 1) Do the same role when it come to RP-PVP, 2) wear the same armour so our theme is consistent.


When I sat down to design the structure of the guild it was through the course of the quests in Zandalar, with particular attention on the army and its units. I saw three groups: Torcalin, Pa'kura and Raptari. Those three are the foundation of the guild idea. Those units play specific roles, have patron Loa from whom they received empowerment and have game-class equivalents that fit the role which would translate to both RP-PVP and ability to adorn the same armour. Game Class has been included in the information on the units so people unfamiliar with the Zandalari army and its units are aware of equivalents to give them idea of role and what would be needed to join a specific unit.

21/08/2018 06:54Posted by Carvian
it may be better to let people decide what loa they want to follow rather than forcing them into those roles. some people might want to play a warrior or rogue who follows bwonsamdi, after all


It is already explained in OP that people may have personal Loa they still honour in their private lives while still following the patron Loa of their unit in order to receive its blessing.

It is important, above all else, to keep in mind that when you join The Talanari you are, firstly, joining a military guild as a career soldier of the Zandalari Army and secondly one is joining a specific unit within that army. Can a warrior (game class) or rogue (game class) worship Bwonsamdi, sure. Would they be Torcalin or Pa'kura? No. Torcalin worship and receive their boon from Torcali, Pa'kura receive their boon from Pa'ku. The guild is made of Torcalin, Pa'kura, Raptari and Akunda not Warriors, hunters, druids and shaman. As said before, that information on class is included in the OP so people not familiar with the lore understand their equivalents.

This is the crux of the guild adhering faithful to the precedents set ingame and established though the lore: you're not joining The Talanri as a Rogue, Feral Druid or a Warrior; you're joining as a Pa'kura, Raptari or Torcalin who have clearly defined military roles which are enriched by following their patron Loa.

Does this mean an individual character only pays lip services to the Patron Loa of their unit? No, as already stated in the OP. I used an example before: Your character may have lived rough, had to scavenge to get by at one point and so they have a deep connection to Jani. You may still honour that, but Jani is not going to be much use to you as a Torcalin when you're daily work is fighting in the vanguard of an army where your strength and ability to hold the line will come from your units patron Loa and namesake.

I hope this has added greater clarity to the perspective of the guild, its nature and structure. I'll review the OP to endeavor to make this distinction and nature clearer.

Many thanks for your input! :)
The Zandalari as i have noticed when playing it through has multiple unit castes in the military. Even those which are not connected to any type of Loa. But the Raptari, Pa'Kura and Torcalin are apparently mostly seen as a special type of unit connected to a specific loa to better enhance their capabilities with the help of their loa's blessing. The Blood elfs are no different having Farstriders and Blood knights acting as special caste within the military with specific roles and professions.

There are many other types of military units in the Zandalari army and it seems the Raptari, Pa'Kura and Torcalin are one of the biggest branches.

Now to better take to mind, i dont believe the wording is like this "You pray to Pa'ku so you MUST join the Pa'kura unit" Its more like this "You join the Pa'kura unit then you must pray to Pa'ku" because having her as your loa in the Pa'kura unit is more beneficial and its the -Pa'kura- unit. The name says its all. But it mostly indicate that you are seeking the boon of your UNITS loa to assist in your profession but you may also have another loa to seek favor from or pray to or give ritual sacrifices i dont know which is outside your unit but the current Loa is more benefitial to your units profession.

Plus another note when reading the guild thread as i see it. This is a Military guild comprised of the Pa'kura, Raptari, Torcalin and Akunda, as he would maybe be one of most logical for shamas? But its a guild comprised of THIS units. Its no different from a guild comprised of only Blood knights or Farstriders like the Division 23 or Sun Hawks or Sunreavers which also have their own special comprised professions and using specific skill to better enhance their profession and role in the Order.

So in short: This guild seems to be mostly focused upon the Torcalin, Pa'kura, Raptari and Akunda special units of the Zandalari army.
Idk, feels like some people in this thread misunderstand this guild.
Your characters lifelong dream is to be a warrior in the Zandalari army? Then it wouldn't make sense for him to pray to the "Loa of Cuddles" primarily.

I understand that some people want to pick their own favourite Loas but from what I've seen the guild leader hasn't forbidden anyone from worshipping another Loa privately as well (rather, he seems to encourage it), it's just that as a unit they've sought the boon of the big freaking triceratops that'll make sure they'll stay alive.

Keep up the good work, looks great.
Do the same role when it come to RP-PVP, 2) wear the same armour so our theme is consistent.


well i can see why you'd put certain classes to one another for the sake of uniform, but i quote

Pa’kura
Patron Loa: Pa’ku
Game Class: Hunters and Rogues


again. you have hunters and rogues together - mail and leather. you're not going to have the same uniform style there, you'd have the mail set on the hunters for instance, and the raptor leather levelling set on rogues. it wouldn't look good.

imho, if you wanna settle with this idea of keeping uniform between each unit best to be like "mail wearers = pa'kura, leather wears = gonk" for the sake of the levelling gear let's say.

not to mention, "same role in rp-pvp", i've done a lot of rp-pvp recently, and i can say for certain that a rogue and a hunter do not have the same role, (still going with that example). a rogue would annoy the back lines of the alliance, whereas the hunter would be the front-line as survival, or in the back as ranged as marksmanship

particular attention on the army and its units. I saw three groups: Torcalin, Pa'kura and Raptari.


what about the rastari? they are the actual army of the zandalari, and most pa'kura and raptari (not sure about torcalin because i haven't seen any of them in my 3rd time levelling on zandalar) are just simple priests worshipping pa'ku or gonk, though there is a few vanguards and druids at the end of zandalar

rastari also don't worship any specific loa afaik, and they take their name from rastakhan rather than the loa. you could get away with mentioning the rastari in the guild too.

21/08/2018 12:53Posted by Oakuatl
Does this mean an individual character only pays lip services to the Patron Loa of their unit? No,


that would only work for gonk - who doesn't mind trolls worshipping more than one loa, if i'm understanding this correctly.

why would a troll, knowing full well, worship a loa who they have not worshipped since a child go and worship a different loa for the sake of army? sure, they might bless the army or whatever, but you have a loa speaker who'd speak with the loa for the sake of the army (windcaller speaking to pa'ku, for instance).

some random enforcers in the guild don't have to pay attention to the loa who their unit is under as they're more than likely never going to speak with the loa.
21/08/2018 17:32Posted by Carvian
you have hunters and rogues together - mail and leather. you're not going to have the same uniform style there, you'd have the mail set on the hunters for instance, and the raptor leather levelling set on rogues. it wouldn't look good.


Pa'kura Warbows are where hunters would align, and the Pa'kura Priests along the Terrace of the Chosen explain to us that Pa'ku is also the Loa of scouts. The Scouts in the Pa'kura unit of the guild use a re-colour of the armour Paku'ai Rokota uses. It is darker and more in-keeping with the subtly and subterfuge of a scout as opposed to the Green and Gold version of the set our Raptari will use in keeping with that seen they use in game.

21/08/2018 17:32Posted by Carvian
not to mention, "same role in rp-pvp", i've done a lot of rp-pvp recently, and i can say for certain that a rogue and a hunter do not have the same role,


Naturally, but we've not asserted that groups of the Pa'kura perform the same role? We do state their roles are very different:


Pa’kura
Patron Loa: Pa’ku
Game Class Equivalent: Hunters and Rogues
Role: Range and Scouts
“Pa’ku is de loa of winds and mistress of our scouts and fleet.”


21/08/2018 17:32Posted by Carvian
what about the rastari? they are the actual army of the zandalari,


They are a subset of the army, seemingly focused on city defense.

and pa'kura raptari (not sure about torcalin because i haven't seen any of them in my 3rd time levelling on zandalar) are just simple priests worshipping pa'ku or gonk.


You will find the Terrace of Toracli at the end of the Terrace of the Chosen. There you will find a mix of Torcalin Guardians and Torcalin Clerics. Pa'kura and Raptari, along with the Torcalin units can all be seen in action at the Blood Gate at coordinates 60.93, 20.32. They are not simple priests but career soldiers in their respective units.

21/08/2018 17:32Posted by Carvian
why would a troll, knowing full well, worship a loa who they have not worshipped since a child go and worship a different loa for the sake of army?


You appear to misunderstand the target audience for this military guild. Characters will either already be established soldiers (transferring into the guild from their previous assignments with the other units) or will be new recruits (who will undergo basic training, assignment to a unit and induction into that Unit and service to the Loa). The fighting effectiveness of, say, the Torcalin, would be compromised if in a bulwark most are receiving boons from Torcali and one is getting shiny trinkets and trash from Jani. Keep in mind one would not be joining the guild as a warrior, or Rastari Enforcer and cook-turn-hero but you would be joining as a Torcalin, in that example, or be on the path to becoming one.
The people who've so far gathered to the discord are giving great vibes for the future endeavors of this guild .) Looking forwards being part of it!
Oakuatl descended the steps of the great pyramid in the early hours before dawn when the blackness of the night sky had been replaced by the silky swaths of navy punctured by the streaks of the day’s first clouds. The coolness of the night continued to cling to the steps of The Great Seal which glistened with dew collected through the night, but it did little to bother the young High Priest.

His swift advancement through the ranks of the priesthood had come on the back of the waves which crashed against Zandalar during the Cataclysm, following which menders of flesh and broken spirits were in equal demand. This advancement was not without afront to some, but as he saw it he had managed to impress enough of the right people to make slighting the wrong ones a decent trade and bargain.

Pulling his robe woollen shawl tighter across his shoulders he slowly made his away down to the docks, using the warm light of the blazing braziers to guide him. Oakuatl had always liked the docks for their life and the stories they brought to their distant island from the corners of the great sea and the continents beyond. In these early hours fishermen had begun to cast their nets in the bay ready for markets of the morning.

Away from the embrace of the braziers though, if one knew which streets to walk, and which to not, one would find those forsaken by fortune, and on the lowest step of the pyramid of Zandalari Society: the casteless.

Oakuatl made his rounds, leaving oat-cakes and fruit in the begging bowls of as many as he could. It was never enough, there were always more bowls to fill than he had pockets to hide food in. He had given all he could and as he was making his way back towards The Great Seal when the muffled sobs of a child caught his sorrowful ears. Between the damp walls of two storehouses huddled a young girl, no older than five or six, shivering in cold of the early morning and looking very thin. Oakuatl dug around in his pockets, and to his relief found the broken remains of an oak-cake which he offered to the youngling, kneeling on the floor before the gap. She had been made world-weary at such a young age, the High Priest observed, treating his kindness with the suspicion that a life, how ever short, on the streets gives you.

“Dere dere, young one. Tell me, why you be cryin’?” asked Oakuatl in a soft, warm tone.”

The youngster crawled out from the gap, and gingerly took the fragments of the oat-cake from his hand.”

“Me muda and me farda both be gone to Bwonsamdi, killed in the north near Nazmir.”

A sorrowful expression clung to his features.

“Bwonsamdi waits for us all, my sweet child. Your muda and farda were very brave, you and I be owin’ them lots for keepin’ us safe, hm?”

The youngling could only raise a meek smile, his words little comfort in the absence of a hug or love from one’s parents.

“Me no home now, no food an’ no family. Soon Bwonsamdi will be comin’ for me too.”

Oakuatl’s heart broke to hear such talk, not for the fact all join Bwonsamdi in the end, but that perhaps that was the kindest fate for this child, and worse: she had started to feel it herself. He rubbed his hands in thought as he often did and felt the ring on his thumb.

“Here be what I be wantin’ ya’ to do, little one.”

He removed the thick golden ring from his thumb and placed it in the girl’s hands, closing them around it.

“Take dis and make ya’ way to The Zocalo. Walk all de’ way down an’ past Atal’Jani Inn, you know it, yes?”

She nodded as she listened.

“Look for a great pile of rubbish near de gate out of the city and place dis ring on-top then kneel next to de rubbish.”
The young one looked puzzled, asking:

“Den what…?”

Oakuatl smiled warmly, helping the child up.

“Den you will make a new friend who be lookin’ afta’ ya’.”

It was at his point a Rastari Bodyguard had finally caught up with the High Priest. He took a second to catch his breath but made quick sense of the situation.

“De others not be amused, Oakuatl. You spend too much time with de casteless when you should be in bed.” The bodyguard protested.

“I serve me Loa in many ways, friend”

The bodyguard looked incredulous, exclaiming:

“You serve Rezan, not de casteless and orphans”

“I serve Rezan, Loa of Kings and Queens. I serve our royal family, whom rule us all, including de lowest of us. I am kind to remind dem dat our King is benevolent.”

“De King would not approve of dis!”

This Oakuatl had to concede, it was doubtful the King would be especially pleased, but he replied with a wry smile:

“De Princess would.”

The Rastari Bodyguard was lost for words, and before he could find any was directed by Oakuatl to help the young child reach the Atal’Jani inn. Before they left Oakuatl gave his woollen shawl to the child, telling her to wrap up and stay warm.

Rezan was indeed the Loa of Kings and Queens, but no King or Queen could rule for long over discontent subjects. Oakuatl smiled to himself and quietly made his way back to the temple to resume his more traditional duties and to wonder what tales the ships would bring today.
Afternoon folks!

The guild concept has been fleshed out some more and the original post updated to reflect this. Specifically we've finalised uniforms for the unit and developed the concept and background for our unique unit the "Akundara".

I've also included the "Tales of de Loa" extracts on our four patron loa to give more context to the nature of those Loa, their roles and how the units derive from them.

I've expanded the recruitment section to explain different paths into the guild depending if your character is already in the warrior caste/ serving within the army or is a young adult embarking on their career or an adult looking to signup.

The background and context for the guild have also been cemented as developing from the Talanji Expedition following the pacification of Uldir. This links well to our concept of being Talanji loyalists and supporters, the background of our leadership as having worked together as part of the Expedition and the cleansing of Uldir is a good springboard for our heading out into the wider word.

Our Golden Edict has been updated to reflect both our military commitments to the Horde and our mission to combat the darkness of the oldgods following our experiences in Nazmir and Uldir.

Finally our awesome Argent Archives pages is up and running with all this information and information on The Golden Edict which steers our course as a unit. Check it out if you're interested in joining, and many thanks to my mate Feilex for doing the art for us!

Check our AA here: https://www.argentarchives.org/node/214605

If you are interested you can join our discord to get to know the other members and help to further develop and refine the concept.

https://discord.gg/BVUnFJ9
This guild looks very promising! Will definitely give it a chance once I get myself a Zandalari.
Well, can't say I will be able to join, as my Zandalari Troll will be a Jakra'zet Exile (As in, exiled by the evil Jakra'zet for being in the way of his allegiances), and will probably be illegible for recruitment. Even though I plan on having him be a Druid and with all the excitement that comes with being one.

Also I can't say that most of the posts that I read here give me much confidence or inspiration, so... That's that.
15/09/2018 21:14Posted by Tubri
Well, can't say I will be able to join, as my Zandalari Troll will be a Jakra'zet Exile (As in, exiled by the evil Jakra'zet for being in the way of his allegiances)


Well after his death, and following the pacification of Nazmir its not beyond the realm of possibility that those exiled to keep them quiet might be able to make their way home if they are still alive. The only thing that had been preventing them, General Jakra'zet, would be gone and I could easily see there being some measure of amnesty.

15/09/2018 21:14Posted by Tubri
Even though I plan on having him be a Druid and with all the excitement that comes with being one.


Lots of our members and those interested are looking at taking on Druids as Raptari, their forms are great!

15/09/2018 21:14Posted by Tubri
Also I can't say that most of the posts that I read here give me much confidence or inspiration


Thats unfortunate, but we maintain that a Torcalin, Raptari and Pa'kura joining our ranks would be beholden to their unit's patron Loa as they are in game.

Best of luck! :)
Can't wait to see this concept in action, as I've already discussed with Oakuatl, it will make for a perfect counterpart to my own Troll guild which is practically the opposite in every way! Looking forward to the glorious interactions we'll have between this reasonable Zandalari military and our bunch of racist fanatics!

Best of luck!
15/09/2018 21:14Posted by Tubri
Well, can't say I will be able to join, as my Zandalari Troll will be a Jakra'zet Exile (As in, exiled by the evil Jakra'zet for being in the way of his allegiances), and will probably be illegible for recruitment. Even though I plan on having him be a Druid and with all the excitement that comes with being one.

Also I can't say that most of the posts that I read here give me much confidence or inspiration, so... That's that.


I too fear I'm not able to join this guild, and I also felt it appropriate to specifically post in the guild thread that I have no interest in the guild in question and that I disapprove of the content of the thread itself, despite spending my time reading both pages before carefully posting my indignation for all to see how important I am in the community, so... That's that.
15/09/2018 21:14Posted by Tubri
Well, can't say I will be able to join, as my Zandalari Troll will be a Jakra'zet Exile (As in, exiled by the evil Jakra'zet for being in the way of his allegiances), and will probably be illegible for recruitment. Even though I plan on having him be a Druid and with all the excitement that comes with being one.

Also I can't say that most of the posts that I read here give me much confidence or inspiration, so... That's that.

"none of my chars fit this guild so i wont be joining" you should of just posted that and it would of had about the same effect as your original one, really useless post

lame post by a lame dude

also yeah carvian and tubri are basically the chuckle brothers who enter guild threads and just begin pulling up non-issues gl with ur guild
I made my post in good faith, and Oaku didn't seem to take offense to it, even though I stated that I have a character who might not fit in (And nobody said that I had absolute no interest in the guild, just that I lost confidence based on what was said from Oaku, about the ranks and everything). That's not something worthy of passive-aggressive snark, is it?

20/09/2018 23:02Posted by Nuclearbóng
lame post by a lame dude


Lame snark from a lame level one character.

20/09/2018 23:02Posted by Nuclearbóng
also yeah carvian and tubri are basically the chuckle brothers who enter guild threads and just begin pulling up non-issues gl with ur guild


Ooooh, slander, is it? How classy of you. By the way, Carvian's post has nothing offensive to offer either, apart from pointing out a few oddities (And as far as I know, as long as he's not insulting the essence of the person advertising the guild, there is no harm in putting in feedback and thoughts about the guild).

Or do you think that is unreasonable to do?

Anyway, level one forum trolls, you two get zero points.

Oh, and a healthy edit:

20/09/2018 23:01Posted by Vaneric
carefully posting my indignation for all to see how important I am in the community


I always like to see people who are recruiting for their guilds that I do have an interest for, but I don't really feel like I'd fit in, give a bit more insight, maybe correct me on a few things if I say in my comment and generally just offer some insight. At least that way, we both get something out of it.
21/09/2018 01:25Posted by Tubri
I always like to see people who are recruiting for their guilds that I do have an interest for, but I don't really feel like I'd fit in, give a bit more insight, maybe correct me on a few things if I say in my comment and generally just offer some insight. At least that way, we both get something out of it.


Please point out in the below post where you give any actual useful insight to this guild/the guild leader beyond 'this concept doesn't work for me':

15/09/2018 21:14Posted by Tubri
Well, can't say I will be able to join, as my Zandalari Troll will be a Jakra'zet Exile (As in, exiled by the evil Jakra'zet for being in the way of his allegiances), and will probably be illegible for recruitment. Even though I plan on having him be a Druid and with all the excitement that comes with being one.

Also I can't say that most of the posts that I read here give me much confidence or inspiration, so... That's that.


Your problem tubby is that you post just for the sake of posting to pad either your post count, your ego or both. Your posts regularly add approximately 0 value to the threads you post in, case in point.

So picture this: you're walking down the street and you see a shop that sells ice cream, you haven't seen this shop before so you go in and have a look around at all the flavours they have. You remember that you don't actually like ice cream and loudly proclaim to the staff behind the counter that you're sorry but this place just isn't for you before walking out.

You could have just walked out without drawing attention to yourself, instead you chose to intentionally make a scene just so people would look in your direction.

It would be weird to do IRL, it's weird to do in a thread too brosef.
You may have posted something to "Try and make me feel in the wrong", but as it stands, I see you more as a coward posting on a level one character trying to talk smack.

You show your main, and I'll show mine, then we can have a discussion. Until then, buzz off.
21/09/2018 09:51Posted by Tubri
You may have posted something to "Try and make me feel in the wrong", but as it stands, I see you more as a coward posting on a level one character trying to talk smack.

You show your main, and I'll show mine, then we can have a discussion. Until then, buzz off.


Seeing as you've switched to another topic (in the usual hypocritical fashion) I can only assume that I have indeed succeeded in pointing out the error of your ways and instead of admitting it you choose to attack me for something else, which funnily enough you also do.

Vaneric 1 - Tubby 0

Ciao babes.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum