Guardian Druid + affinity thoughts

Druid
So after I've now done most of the mythic 0 (Only Siege and King's Rest left), I've a few comments about Guardian Druid. While I'm pretty sure we got a tad bit of a threat issue, I cannot fully know if it's due to stats being low or just general damage being underwhelming. Anyways, a few things I would like to see.

1: Remove corruption to be castable in bear form (I know, right? Guardian Druids have that spell! :o) cuz there been plenty of times now in these mythic runs I've done when I've seen a lot of poison/curses that I could dispel but shouldn't cuz it will be stupid to do so since I lose pretty much all rage and all my armor (Including ironfur) when I leave bear form.

Why am I not allowed to use a dispel risk-free while I'm tanking while both Brewmaster Monk and Protection Paladin can? It's silly and isn't engaging gameplay. Make it cost some rage or whatever. Just make it usable in bear form, please. Thank you, kindly.

2: Rework affinities onALL the specs. They are basically just boring passives now and has pretty much only been that. Change the passive completely and make them empowers passively your abilities/spenders in a way that fits the spec. Such as:
Feral: Maul/mangle also applies a shorter version of rip/rake.
Balance: Thrash calls down sunfire on the targets and apply a much shorter dot of it. Each target hit by swipe calls down moonfires it doesn't give a dot on the target.
Resto: Maul heals you for X% of the damage it does. Ironfur gives you thorns that do X amount of damage to attackers.

This would provide a class fantasy as well. That you've such affinity for the other spec, that you don't even need to change out of your specialization to do a few of the things since you've learned to use your affinity within your own expertise.

For balance:

Feral = Starfall puts thrash on targets it hits, and starsurge causes a bleed on the target. (that will function similar to how Deep wound on Arms Warriors work)

Guardian = Starfall give all your allies X-Y% damage reduction that are inside of it (similar to paladins devotion aura works) and Starsurge provides yourself with an absorb shield based on its damage, up to X% of your HP.

And Resto gives starfall efflorescence-like effect and starsurge would heal the X most injuries allies for X% of your damage.

Feral is such a mess atm in every aspect so I won't even think up ideas for it.

For Resto:

Balance's moon/sunfire have a chance to give back mana per tick.

Feral affinity, I'm not sure about, something like efflorescence's ticks causes bleeds on enemies that stands within it and solar wrath causes bleeds as well.

Guardian affinity can be "lifebloom overheals = absorb shield" and "wild growth gives X amount of damage reduction. "

The exact math for everything is something I'm not qualified to speak of. But these are just examples of what I mean with empowering your actual rotations with elements of the other specs in ways that provides several new options to them.

Guardian would provide damage reductions or absorbs to different spenders/small cooldown to core abilites.
Resto would provide healing options in various ways.
Balance would mainly provide more AoE damage.
Feral would provide ST damage.

Anways

3: Since this is actually about Guardian Druid, I want to see moonfire to have some fun/interesting interactions with your rotation outside of galactic guardian.

Either make Galactic guardian baseline and balance the extra rage we will have, around it and give us a new talent. This one could be something like "moonfire dots have a 5% chance to proc gore" Which would make the entire line, very mangle focused. Either its better mangle on average. Or it's more mangles on average. Or it's a lot of mangles during a cooldown

Or split it into two parts. The first part (hit = moonfire hit on the target) is baseline but at a higher % proc, so it will reliably replace itself and the talent is the second part but X% chance on a 'Galactic Guardian proc' your next moonfire will do 300% and give you 8 rage. This option allows you to completely ignore casting moonfires if you don't want to use Galactic guardian (And since the the dot itself won't proc Gore as it's only affected by casted spells, it won't actually affect it) and it would also immensely help with AoE damage without substantially change the current version of Guardian Druid.

4: Final part. Give all druids Urosl's Vortex baseline.
I'm not as far progressed as yourself but after tanking some heroics today I definitely agree on the threat generation point at the start of your post. Was wondering if it was only me experiencing that.
big + from me
I mainly had issues with Paladins burst. 2 mangles + 2 thrash + 2 swipes + 1 moonfire isn't enough to take it back. You NEED to use growl to be able to out aggro their burst. But I had a 310ilvl rare and they had a 355 epic weapon. So it might just been the pure damage numbers difference so it's really difficult to say. Since now when I got a 325ilvl weapon I don't have nearly as much problems (it still happens but now I can grab it back and keep it)
I tanked 3 mythics from 286 to 294 ilevel and threat is not an issue in an organized group
However, the damage feels on the lower side and survivability is an issue in trash pulls, bosses are what have always been for guardians, noodles
Resto affinity could use a buff, as it is right now, the heal is beyond low
Guardian tops single target dps of all the tank specs - but has the lowest AoE. Just like Feral.

The whole idea of “We’ll design some specs to do really good at AoE - and some specs to do a bit better at single target” is flawed and should die in a fire - but apparently, the designers are in love with it. It could work if the differences with AoE weren’t so huge, but they are.

The idea of changing the Affinities? Only if the devs then give us all our healing/tanking/casting abilities back. If you play a Druid and you dislike doing stuff outside your spec, then YOU are playing the wrong class. The Druid class is the most hybrid and versatile class in the game. Druids have been like hybrid since Vanilla - that is literally our hallmark.

Embrace it - or play something else.
So basically you dont use your control or the big casts from the boss to shapeshift and get debuffs/swifwend/lunarstrike so you want the game to do it for you without taking any risks? I think you simply cannot adapt to the game you should play something else.
20/08/2018 13:51Posted by Feralium
I tanked 3 mythics from 286 to 294 ilevel and threat is not an issue in an organized group
However, the damage feels on the lower side and survivability is an issue in trash pulls, bosses are what have always been for guardians, noodles
Resto affinity could use a buff, as it is right now, the heal is beyond low

Im 340 getting 65k swiftmends off you basically just need 2 gcds to use it 2 sec of kiting in inimaginable for you? Come on...
31/10/2018 00:19Posted by Josayghtte
Im 340 getting 65k swiftmends off you basically just need 2 gcds to use it 2 sec of kiting in inimaginable for you? Come on...


You mean typhoon -> cat form to run and build some distance -> swiftmend-->bear form -->

You need 4 globals or at the very least 3 globals if you dont want to run away in cat form before u start hitting mobs again. And that's only if mobs are not immune to slows and knockbacks.

You also lose the damage reduction and stamina buff because you have to stay in caster form for at least one global which is very dangerous when there are ranged mobs/casters or you have dots ticking on you.

Since it needs a very special setup to use as a tank it also means it can almost never be used on a team member for some offhealing. Especially in m+
31/10/2018 00:17Posted by Josayghtte
So basically you dont use your control or the big casts from the boss to shapeshift and get debuffs/swifwend/lunarstrike so you want the game to do it for you without taking any risks? I think you simply cannot adapt to the game you should play something else.


As I said before in many other Guardian threads, other tanks like the Paladin or the Monk can heal and dispel themselves without losing their tankiness and fearing that they will get one-shotted.

With that said, that's actually half of the fun of playing a Guardian, trying to utilize your mechanically limiting toolkit according to the needs of the party and the limitations imposed by the dungeon mechanics.
Among other things, one of my proudest moments in Mythics was when, I have done a Freehold +8 and managed to go through Trothak the Shark Puncher without a healer(he died 2 times in the beginning of the fight), because the fight allowed me to get out of form at times and heal my party, and god it felt so good.
Motherlode is another example of bosses letting you do other stuff than just tanking.

This is all great fun, and actually makes you feel very good, if you are willing to put in the extra effort like some of us do and learn when and where you can pull off these shape-shifting shenanigans, but it also means that Blizzard must keep designing dungeons/encounters with this specific limitation/weakness of the Druid in mind.
But I don't trust Blizzard, so it is a safer solution for them to come up with a way to make shape-shifting more safe than keeping in mind this class weakness in every single PvE content they try to design.
06/11/2018 13:07Posted by Joomanka
I have done a Freehold +8 and managed to go through Trothak the Shark Puncher without a healer(he died 2 times in the beginning of the fight), because the fight allowed me to get out of form at times and heal my party, and god it felt so good.


Oh yeah, I had something like that with Knight Captain Valyri, the third boss in Tol Dagor, a +8 or something like that.

Everyone died at 20% due to explosions on Tyrannical, and uh. It took me ages, but I solo'd the rest of that. Yeah yeah, DKs and Paladins would laugh and solo it with ease, but it felt pretty cool to take advantage of her turning and casting that slooow-cast cone to Swiftmend myself and such.

It's tricky, because I have to admit, I do love the skillful play of shifting out at the right times to heal my allies with Restoration Affinity. I guess a lot of the problem is that we have to time it properly and make sure we don't die stupidly out-of-form, just to be able to do what the other tanks can already do better than us anyway.

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