Why I'm not renewing my sub.

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I agree with you on everything you said
And what hurts me the most is that the chance that Blizzard is actually hearing our opinions is just so slim.
And ofc, we'll probably never see a blue post in this type of threads
I just hope that things get better over time, I really enjoy WoW, always did, but it feels like the old creators and developers are not the ones running the team anymore..
forgot server lag on a multibillion company
They stopped giving a crap long ago really. We're just addicts who still pay.
05/09/2018 01:00Posted by Jagarde
Don't mind the trolls.

Well written.

...

This right here, says a lot about the ones who sees "no problem" with BfA. I mean, why do you want to level alts in WoW, especially coming from Legion, were it was alt friendly and morso , alts played an important role in the Story - Class Halls , Different Artifacts = Different Story - etc .

But nope! Buy a boost please!

How was legion alt friendly? I logged onto my horde alt and still had to do my class hall campaign and quests, content was still locked. Once again you still had to do quests, mission table, and world quests. No different from BFA.


Never put Legion Class Hall Campaign and Quests, Mission Table and World quests in the same sentence with BfA. At least you had things to do. Yes , day 1. Right now in BfA, if you make an alt , there is exactly the same path you followed with your first char. No difference, nothing.

And keep in mind, we are just talking about alts here.

Also, what do you want from an alt on different faction ? Geez!
i don't get quitting before the content patch.
05/09/2018 00:23Posted by Mawn
K bye
'I'm having sooooo much fun
Can I have your gold
Lol u suk
Don't let the door hit you on your way out


To bad you cant Copy/paste orginality
04/09/2018 23:54Posted by Zuljiren
A) Levelling alts, a cherished activity of so many players, is an abysmal process. The 'experience' (if you have the audacity to call it that) is unfun, unrewarding and uninspired. The stat squish has (as I predicted months ago) made gear upgrades prior to 110 thoroughly pointless and ineffectual. There is no tangible benefit to your character, no noticeable improvement in output, just a meaningless ilevel to give the illusion that you're improving.

It's always been like that while levelling, ever since Vanilla...all the gear you get before max level is just small increments of stats, and only at max level do you start getting gear so your spec can shine...so if after 14years you're still not used to it, then maybe this is not the game for you.

04/09/2018 23:54Posted by Zuljiren
B) No talents from levels 100-120, classes being pruned and stripped only for a fraction of these abilities to be drip fed back to us in restricted, small doses via PvP talents and Azerite Gear? No thank you Blizzard. You know damn well how lazy this is and no, you are not providing the player any 'choice' by taking away what we already had. Speaking of talent points.....

I might agree more or less with you on this point, but also why do we need more talents? To feel more powerful? I agree with their view of scaling down the sense of power, to make us feel "smaller" again...yes, we're great heroes, but not god-like creatures that walk the land...it's the sense of immersion they're going for.
I do agree that the Azerite gear is not a smart thing, because you locked gear until you farm enough AP...the abilities themselves should be locked behind AP, not the slot...basically, at AP 10 you'd get an ability you could use, and at AP15 you'd get another for the same slot, forcing you to choose and build a spec around it.

04/09/2018 23:54Posted by Zuljiren
C) I'm absolutely fed up with the laughable talent point rows in conjunction with frankly shambolic spec design. Stop making players choose between talents that should be built into each spec. Once again Blizzard, you're not providing a Paladin a 'choice' by asking him to pick Divine Purpose or Blade of Wrath. The only reason he or she is picking these talents is because the spec plays like steaming garbage without them. It defeats the joy of progression when you feel as if you have no choice when you reach the very sparse, badly spaced talent options.

Did you play Vanilla or anything up to Cataclysm? There were no choices! If you were a paladin, well...heal, because no one wanted you for anything else...other classes had an even harder time. Each talent build is designed around a functionality, some you go for AoE others for single target, and other's are just useless garbage but might be fun in some situations...it's always been like that, and it's also completely normal thing in RPG games.

04/09/2018 23:54Posted by Zuljiren

D) Scaling by level was a really good idea. Scaling by ilevel is not. What exactly are you working towards when mobs actively scale with your gear? If a fresh 110 kills enemies as easily as a mythic geared 120, it entirely defeats the purpose of the game. You try and argue that this is to keep content relevant, in particular one aspect of the content which is the most nefarious of them all.

The purpose is immersion...after going around killing demons and great titans, due to the awesome power of our artifact weapons, killing some lowly blood trolls or seafaring humans would be to easy, so the scaling by ilvl is meant to create that imersion;
Also, a fresh 110 (that didn't purchase a boost) will be around 160-170'ish ilvl (depending on how he level from 100-110); I dare you to pick a 110 with 170ilvl and kill even close to a full mythic geared 120. People have already run the math on this, the speed is there, maybe you're just not good enough.

04/09/2018 23:54Posted by Zuljiren

2) World quests. Listen, I don't expect things for free. I have absolutely no qualms working towards things and earning things the hard way. The problem I have is that you have destroyed choice and you are forcing players to play the game one way and one way only. Locking reputation gains behind World Quests and the Mission Table, subsequently forcing people into adhering to your timegated, tedious grind is just not good enough in my view. People enjoy a range of activities in this game and to exclude the Dungeon players and PvPers from progression is fundamentally poor design. Let me be very clear. I am not complaining about the grind or expecting free progression. All I am advocating for is a choice in the way in which I go about my progression. World Quests are not fun for me, as I'm sure they're not fun for many other people. Logging on to do 'chores' is not something I look forward to and if that is the way you're going to force me to play, I refuse. Even if you are locking me out of the story by doing this which is another horrendous design choice.

In Legion, Suramar campaign was locked by rep...in WoD, content was locked by rep...previously, content was locked by rep + attunments. Those gates have always existed, nothing changed.
WQ's are pretty much the old dailies, which were never fun, they are chores...they are a goal to something, but you need to work for it...or would you rather they just give it to you? Let's make raiding fun next...we enter the raid, walk right up to boss, and bang, instant loot, wow what fun! You work for the rewards, it's how this game has always worked.

04/09/2018 23:54Posted by Zuljiren

3) Island Expeditions are a waste of time with little in the way of replayability or enjoyment. The 'rewards' provide next to no incentive and the game mode is reflective of the uninspired nature of this expansion. I do not accept that the exceptionally rare cosmetic rewards are anywhere near good enough to coax people into grinding this mode and once you have done one island, you've done them all. If you enjoy them, all the power to you - however I've grown tired of them already and just one look at the lack of groups attempting the Mythic or PvP version of this content is all the evidence I need that the community at large is not enjoying them either.

Island Exp in Mythic and PvP are fun, but you're not going to have it with Pugs...it's literally something to do with friends or guildmates, because they're hard, require work, oh...wait, I'm seeing a pattern with you on work/reward ratio

04/09/2018 23:54Posted by Zuljiren

4) The Heart of Azeroth is the laziest, most tedious excuse of an addition that this expansion has to offer. A meaningless stat sponge that offers nothing in the way of gameplay, customisation or reward. Moreover, due to the way in which Azerite is earned, levelling an alt feels punishing due to the way in which most Azerite Gear requires obscene amounts of grinding in order to utilise the traits on each piece of gear. In addition, this ties into the World Quest grind and feeling absolutely forced to play the tedious, timegated game that Blizzard want you to play. Azerite drops from other content are so low and meaningless that if you want to progress at all - it's jump on the World Quest grind or languish in mediocrity. This doesn't inspire me to play, it drives me to log off and look elsewhere for enjoyment.

Almost fully agree with you on the Azerite farming, but it's been 3weeks...you're not supposed to be already AP 100!

04/09/2018 23:54Posted by Zuljiren

5) Class design and the GCD changes have made each class feel like a straight downgrade from Legion. Downtime, lack of fluidity and in some cases (Shadow Priest and Enhancement Shaman) Blizzard have done such an appalling job that they are suggesting that the specs are in line for complete reworks. This is after months upon months of Beta testing and feedback. This is inexcusable and reflective of the lack of thought, effort and care that has gone into the thing that should have been the number one focus - the gameplay.

Some specs feel slower, while others are more vibrant than ever...it's more of a spec-by-spec situation than a general design problem, and it's also on purpose, since they wish every spec to feel different, instead of having a Destro Lock feeling the same as any mage spec...so yeah, you might have less fluidity in some cases, low dps on others, but that's not permanent, in time that gets changed or you can just go to another class/spec.

04/09/2018 23:54Posted by Zuljiren

6) The cruel, unfair Dungeon loot grind needs a rework. Once again, I have no issues with earning my gear and grinding for it. However, I do resent feeling like I am completely wasting my time. Running 3-4 dungeons with no loot drops, only to run the 5th and receive a duplicate... This is purely designed to artificially extend our playtime and gate progression which is something that sits incredibly poorly with me considering the way in which Blizzard effectively turned a blind eye to the reputation hack that resulted in people becoming geared with next to no effort. The dungeon system is crying out for a currency system, so even if you are on the end of some terrible luck - each dungeon feels meaningful because you are slowly working towards a way that you can progress without solely relying on RNG.

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Yes, because raiding always gives you loot...in fact, we only need to raid once to get every single piece of gear we want, it's that simple...
Seriously, you just want things handed to you...the game requires work, just like it always did. You don't like it, fine, don't play it, but don't thrash it just because you're not getting every reward you want.

Even though you might feel I'm dismissing you, I am not...you bring valid points, things that could be improved, but the simple fact is, this is a 14year old game, that has mostly stayed the same during that time. Levelling is a grind, gearing up is a grind, raiding is a grind, grabbing mounts or transmogs is a grind, everything is a grind, and it has been for the last 14years...it's why everyone jokes we work more on WoW than in our RL jobs.
Other games bring a faster sense of excitement and reward, but most of them you put it down after 1-2months...this one has always forced you to work for the rewards, and even though they made it simpler, you still need to put the time and effort...if you don't want that, then play it casually, sometimes you do this, sometimes you do that, with small goals on the horizon.

Anyway, sometimes it's best to step back from the game and come back a few months later, when there's more content.
The current state the game is in isn't even F2P worthy, though I'd be understanding towards the chosen path a lot more if it was F2P.
Frankly, I do believe that's the only thing to save this game, to become F2P after buying the latest xpac or something.
The subscription or game time simply just can't be justified any longer as are the ridiculous high prices for their game services. Milk the player, give less and less back, watch them grind and spend their money mindlesly.
If it becomes F2P, I might reinstall the game and have a look again.
It's always been like that while levelling, ever since Vanilla...all the gear you get before max level is just small increments of stats, and only at max level do you start getting gear so your spec can shine...so if after 14years you're still not used to it, then maybe this is not the game for you.


Hang on a minute. It was exactly the opposite in Vanilla. Gear made a colossal difference throughout your levelling journey. I remember getting the Wailing Caverns blue mace on my Shaman and feeling a massive power increase from the green mace I had equipped previously. This feeling is completely gone under the current system. At no point throughout the levelling process do you acquire gear that provides the same observable power increase.

I might agree more or less with you on this point, but also why do we need more talents? To feel more powerful? I agree with their view of scaling down the sense of power, to make us feel "smaller" again...yes, we're great heroes, but not god-like creatures that walk the land...it's the sense of immersion they're going for.

I do agree that the Azerite gear is not a smart thing, because you locked gear until you farm enough AP...the abilities themselves should be locked behind AP, not the slot...basically, at AP 10 you'd get an ability you could use, and at AP15 you'd get another for the same slot, forcing you to choose and build a spec around it.


New talents and abilities are vital for progression and actually feeling as if your character is advancing. Gaining new skills is fundamental to this ethos. To defend Blizzard and try to assert that they don't provide us with anything because of....immersion? Wait what? They want to immerse us with the sensation that we're getting weaker? Well they've certainly succeeded.

Did you play Vanilla or anything up to Cataclysm? There were no choices! If you were a paladin, well...heal, because no one wanted you for anything else...other classes had an even harder time. Each talent build is designed around a functionality, some you go for AoE others for single target, and other's are just useless garbage but might be fun in some situations...it's always been like that, and it's also completely normal thing in RPG games.


Dude, arguing that something was worse in the past somehow validates Blizzards current poor design is not an argument. No, each talent build is categorically not as you suggest. Some talents are required for smooth, fast paced and fluid rotations. This is the antithesis of providing a real choice. If you have to pick something fundamental to making a class play well, the designers have flat out failed.

The purpose is immersion...after going around killing demons and great titans, due to the awesome power of our artifact weapons, killing some lowly blood trolls or seafaring humans would be to easy, so the scaling by ilvl is meant to create that imersion;
Also, a fresh 110 (that didn't purchase a boost) will be around 160-170'ish ilvl (depending on how he level from 100-110); I dare you to pick a 110 with 170ilvl and kill even close to a full mythic geared 120. People have already run the math on this, the speed is there, maybe you're just not good enough.


Read what I said. I didn't say that scaling was inherently bad from a level perspective. I stated that scaling with our ilevel is ridiculous in a loot based MMORPG. If someone at 290 ilevel is killing creatures at the same pace and efficiency as someone at 340 ilevel, it completely defeats the loot based progression that this games success was built on. Your second point is so laughably asinine. A fresh geared 110 may not be able to kill mobs faster than a mythic geared 120 but I guarantee that someone who is decked in bottom tier Antorus LFR gear with two legendaries from Legion will leave a 340 geared player in the dust when it comes to killing mobs. It's not even close and i've tested this with my 112 Paladin when compared to this Hunter.

n Legion, Suramar campaign was locked by rep...in WoD, content was locked by rep...previously, content was locked by rep + attunments. Those gates have always existed, nothing changed.
WQ's are pretty much the old dailies, which were never fun, they are chores...they are a goal to something, but you need to work for it...or would you rather they just give it to you? Let's make raiding fun next...we enter the raid, walk right up to boss, and bang, instant loot, wow what fun! You work for the rewards, it's how this game has always worked.


No I'm not asking for anything to be given to me. This is either deliberate ignorance or unbelievable stupidity. I am merely asking for choice in how to pursue progression. I don't believe that being tunnelled into tedious, timegated world quests as the sole method of rep progression is good design. I couldn't have been more clear in what I wrote and if you are insinuating I'm looking for an easy route, you blatantly have not read my original post carefully enough.

Island Exp in Mythic and PvP are fun, but you're not going to have it with Pugs...it's literally something to do with friends or guildmates, because they're hard, require work, oh...wait, I'm seeing a pattern with you on work/reward ratio


Yawn, you're really trying aren't you? They're unpopular with the community. Nobody is running them. Your incessant attempts at insulting me are as inept as your comprehension.

Some specs feel slower, while others are more vibrant than ever...it's more of a spec-by-spec situation than a general design problem, and it's also on purpose, since they wish every spec to feel different, instead of having a Destro Lock feeling the same as any mage spec...so yeah, you might have less fluidity in some cases, low dps on others, but that's not permanent, in time that gets changed or you can just go to another class/spec.


The only specs that are more 'vibrant' than Legion are the two that were FUBAR in that expansion. Survival Hunter and Demonology Warlock, which received ground up reworks. I would love to know which other specs you believe are more 'vibrant' than ever. Have a talk with the Feral Druids, the Ret Paladins, the Affliction Locks, the WW Monks. I highly doubt they will share your view. I'm beginning to wonder if you're being paid to say this. It is pretty unanimous that the majority of specs in the game feel worse than their Legion counterparts. The clunky rotations and lack of fluidity is glaring and I'm baffled that you're defending such poor design. Blizzard had months to fix these issues. Months of player feedback and testing. There is no excuse, period.

05/09/2018 03:33Posted by Taurh
Yes, because raiding always gives you loot...in fact, we only need to raid once to get every single piece of gear we want, it's that simple...
Seriously, you just want things handed to you...the game requires work, just like it always did. You don't like it, fine, don't play it, but don't thrash it just because you're not getting every reward you want.


Raiding is entirely different because that is end game. There is nowhere to progress from that point so the RNG is acceptable. I am talking about the progression to get there and solely relying on RNG is a poor system that gates players needlessly from pursuing end game content. I'm not asking for an easy route or 'free gear'. All I am advocating for is a way in which people can slowly work towards progression via a currency system that goes some way to protecting against persistent bad luck. Previous expansions have got this right and BfA most certainly has not. Making the grind worthwhile and rewarding players appropriately for time spent is not the same as demanding free things. Blizzard are hellbent on a timegating philosophy and it's painfully obvious in every activity.

05/09/2018 03:33Posted by Taurh
Even though you might feel I'm dismissing you, I am not...you bring valid points, things that could be improved,


Well you spent the majority of the most attempting to disparage me as someone who doesn't want to grind or who demands that stuff be given out for free, which couldn't be further from the truth.
04/09/2018 23:54Posted by Zuljiren
5) Class design and the GCD changes have made each class feel like a straight downgrade from Legion. Downtime, lack of fluidity and in some cases (Shadow Priest and Enhancement Shaman) Blizzard have done such an appalling job that they are suggesting that the specs are in line for complete reworks. This is after months upon months of Beta testing and feedback. This is inexcusable and reflective of the lack of thought, effort and care that has gone into the thing that should have been the number one focus - the gameplay.


It's not that I really disagree with the rest of your post, but I'm quoting this for emphasis as I believe it to be the most important (and ultimately what stops me from playing this game if it continues in the way it's currently going).

Some would argue it's not every spec (it isn't), but it sure feels that way for every tank spec... And no, it's not just a haste issue, either.

It's just sad, really.
05/09/2018 04:33Posted by Subbie
It's not that I really disagree with the rest of your post, but I'm quoting this for emphasis as I believe it to be the most important (and ultimately what stops me from playing this game if it continues in the way it's currently going).

Some would argue it's not every spec (it isn't), but it sure feels that way for every tank spec... And no, it's not just a haste issue, either.

It's just sad, really.


It's absolutely shocking for bursting on a Hunter too. Bestial Wrath and Aspect of the Wild being on the GCD feels like absolute trash. It's made setting up burst windows to take down healers absolutely horrendous because you can quite feasibly waste an Intimidation stun entirely with the GCD.

No wonder people are complaining about healers so much in PvP. The counterplay just isn't there anymore.
You have very valid points.

Unfortunately the current WoW team isn't the same team that we used to have - they are obviously new, except a few oldies who're rolling with this new model for the sake of their job.

At this point, Activision Blizzard are so rich that they do not need to listen to any important feedback because of their pride, and clearly their ambition is to continue with the current model that keeps the shareholders happy.
05/09/2018 04:38Posted by Serious
You have very valid points.

Unfortunately the current WoW team isn't the same team that we used to have - they are obviously new, except a few oldies who're rolling with this new model for the sake of their job.

At this point, Activision Blizzard are so rich that they do not need to listen to any important feedback because of their pride, and clearly their ambition is to continue with the current model that keeps the shareholders happy.


You just need to look at Destiny and Call of Duty to know that Activision only care about profits. The way they treat those communities is borderline abusive.
Same here dude, dont think I can forgive them for this.

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17623562420
05/09/2018 04:42Posted by Zuljiren
05/09/2018 04:38Posted by Serious
You have very valid points.

Unfortunately the current WoW team isn't the same team that we used to have - they are obviously new, except a few oldies who're rolling with this new model for the sake of their job.

At this point, Activision Blizzard are so rich that they do not need to listen to any important feedback because of their pride, and clearly their ambition is to continue with the current model that keeps the shareholders happy.


You just need to look at Destiny and Call of Duty to know that Activision only care about profits. The way they treat those communities is borderline abusive.
For real. I stopped purchasing and playing Acitivsion's games a few years ago. It's so unfortunate that their influence (and most likely direct decisions) sweep through WoW though.
My biggest problem with the game is that I can choose not to play at all, wait a couple of months, come back and instantly catch up to everyone else who played during these months while I was absent, because Blizzard will nerf everything.
05/09/2018 04:59Posted by Korgosh
My biggest problem with the game is that I can choose not to play at all, wait a couple of months, come back and instantly catch up to everyone else who played during these months while I was absent, because Blizzard will nerf everything.

Yup. Just like in Legion, that's exactly what I did. I took a few months break and came back to instantly cap my Artifact weapons. It made me realise just how bad things have gotten, actually... it's alarming that most players don't come to this realisation too, because they're either so engrossed in the game and don't want to focus on the fundamental issues, or they suffer from some sort of Stockholm syndrome with Blizzard so they sympathise with them regardless of how bad things get.

Either way, at least it's something to do to pass your spare time. I wouldn't dedicate myself to actually achieving anything great in this game though.
05/09/2018 00:23Posted by Mawn
K bye
'I'm having sooooo much fun
Can I have your gold
Lol u suk
Don't let the door hit you on your way out


Just pls get rest. Game is boring, chaotic and inconsistent. Grinding is annoying and having to do all the bloody reputation and other bull!@#$s with all the alts is killing the enthusiasm. I never played the xpac so little in a first few weeks, and never got so bored 5 days after the start.
i think BFA is gonna be my last expansion as of how i feel about it.
too me BFA is a worse expansion then legion with more AP grind and it does not feel like i am getting stronger or level up my neckless like it did with my artifact weapon, the WQ overall is boring and feels like a 2nd job, gearing up is fun that not everyone have epics yet which makes it feel like the good old days, hunter as a class is dead too me right now they are so boring right now and dont do alot of damage.
I think its finally time to ether level up a new character or leave WoW behind it has given me alot of fun but good times always comes to an end at some point.
For a quick fix I would do the following.
Give proper talent trees in the necklace.
Add legendary weapons and maybe even armour .
Get rid of scaling @#cking stupid idea that is .
Iam sure there's many but this would help a lot .

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