Here is why Classic will succeed

Classic Discussion
We all struggle in WoW. In the modern version, it is in the form of grinding world quests, time-gated content, leveling, dealing with toxic players and of course running out of content. In the classic version however, we struggle with no quality of life improvements where everything done is seen as a tedious task such as running from one zone to another, making enough gold for that first mount, the lack of quests available and having to spam trade chat to find a group for a dungeon, to name a few. The point I am trying to make here is that we can all choose our struggles and I'll explain why the struggles of Classic WoW are more enjoyable.

In Classic, the average player is not seen as a failure. It is on the contrary in fact. The beauty of Classic is that every class served it's own purpose and people appreciated you for it. For instance, if you are a mage handing out food and water to people who were near you in a leveling zone, or if you are that warlock that helped summon someone's friend so they can level together in a zone, they would remember you and you would probably end up being friends. In modern WoW however, these simple and appreciative actions that used to be provided from other players are replaced by AI such as permanent portals in random cities which you used to need a mage for, buffs from other players or blacksmith sharpening stones which would help you defeat mobs quicker are now replaced with mobs being too easy or not challenging.

In the modern version of WoW, everyone is fed epics and cool titles so that they feel they are exceptional. However the truth behind this is that if everyone is exceptional, then by default no one is exceptional. That leads me to wonder why do I have to be exceptional to feel special? Why is content being so streamlined to the extent where I am forced to raid mythic and stand out? What's wrong with being average? I feel you have to put in more effort in modern WoW, despite the fact that it's targeted towards casuals whereas in Classic I don't need to have full epics to feel as if I am special. I can choose my own path to feel special by being the richest on my server, by using my rare mount, by having those rare recipes for enchanting that everyone wants and remembers me for or I can have a notorious reputation for killing members of the opposing faction on my daily 2 am trips to Orgrimmar. The point is I can choose my own path and be remembered for it.

In conclusion, Classic will succeed because your character is a reflection of yourself. It shows who you are as a person and how you overcame your struggles. People appreciated that. Classic isn't just about the game play, it's about the connections you make with people and that resonates with a lot of us.
Here's why it's too early to talk about that:
there's ZERO information about how Classic would look like, what monetization model it will have and so on.
02/09/2018 08:27Posted by Xjj
We all struggle in WoW. In the modern version, it is in the form of grinding world quests, time-gated content, leveling, dealing with toxic players and of course running out of content. In the classic version however, we struggle with no quality of life improvements where everything done is seen as a tedious task such as running from one zone to another, making enough gold for that first mount, the lack of quests available and having to spam trade chat to find a group for a dungeon, to name a few. The point I am trying to make here is that we can all choose our struggles and I'll explain why the struggles of Classic WoW are more enjoyable.

In Classic, the average player is not seen as a failure. It is on the contrary in fact. The beauty of Classic is that every class served it's own purpose and people appreciated you for it. For instance, if you are a mage handing out food and water to people who were near you in a leveling zone, or if you are that warlock that helped summon someone's friend so they can level together in a zone, they would remember you and you would probably end up being friends. In modern WoW however, these simple and appreciative actions that used to be provided from other players are replaced by AI such as permanent portals in random cities which you used to need a mage for, buffs from other players or blacksmith sharpening stones which would help you defeat mobs quicker are now replaced with mobs being too easy or not challenging.

In the modern version of WoW, everyone is fed epics and cool titles so that they feel they are exceptional. However the truth behind this is that if everyone is exceptional, then by default no one is exceptional. That leads me to wonder why do I have to be exceptional to feel special? Why is content being so streamlined to the extent where I am forced to raid mythic and stand out? What's wrong with being average? I feel you have to put in more effort in modern WoW, despite the fact that it's targeted towards casuals whereas in Classic I don't need to have full epics to feel as if I am special. I can choose my own path to feel special by being the richest on my server, by using my rare mount, by having those rare recipes for enchanting that everyone wants and remembers me for or I can have a notorious reputation for killing members of the opposing faction on my daily 2 am trips to Orgrimmar. The point is I can choose my own path and be remembered for it.

In conclusion, Classic will succeed because your character is a reflection of yourself. It shows who you are as a person and how you overcame your struggles. People appreciated that. Classic isn't just about the game play, it's about the connections you make with people and that resonates with a lot of us.


+1 bravo. Could not agree more :)
Nicely said.
02/09/2018 08:31Posted by Mirtle
Here's why it's too early to talk about that:
there's ZERO information about how Classic would look like, what monetization model it will have and so on.


This is related to OP's post how?

We can reasonably assume that Blizzard wont start altering the core gameplay that made Vanilla into Vanilla.
Yes, that may be true, but gameplay isn't the only thing that determines the game's success.

Also, while they may not start altering anything maliciously, there are still many-many questions and decisions to be made. For example if they decide to have patch/talent progression, it'll make many people angry because "1.12 is the bestest patch and why would they release a broken game to us boo!".
But if they go with static 1.12, a lot of people are still gonna end up angry, because "The early content is all made trivial, boo!" or "You've rebalanced the content and now it's nothing like in Vanilla, boo!"

that's just one example, and there are many of those. Release date may be impactful, the players may not be ready for vanilla realities, the price may be too much for some, others may choose to stay on that Pirate server they are playing.

There are many factors that are just not clear for now. The thread is called "Why classic will be a success", and my reply is directly addressing that. The post itself is a matter of personal taste. Someone likes that, others won't.
a reasonable educated guess would simply be that they will go the nostalrius route. Which in my opinion is the way to go.
1.12.1 talents
content patch progression (Diremaul, Bg's, ZG, AQ40, Naxx) to Name a few
1.12.1 itemisation

oh btw. @ OP yes the key word is immersion. immersion can not be achieved by QoL features or mainstreaming content. if you make all the content (lorewise) accessible to every one without any struggle, you take away the ensentive to achieve it in the first place.
02/09/2018 08:27Posted by Xjj
We all struggle in WoW. In the modern version, it is in the form of grinding world quests, time-gated content, leveling, dealing with toxic players and of course running out of content. In the classic version however, we struggle with no quality of life improvements where everything done is seen as a tedious task such as running from one zone to another, making enough gold for that first mount, the lack of quests available and having to spam trade chat to find a group for a dungeon, to name a few. The point I am trying to make here is that we can all choose our struggles and I'll explain why the struggles of Classic WoW are more enjoyable.


Also, no one was in a hurry to face those challenges. That is the worst of today's wow - everyone is just in hurry, rushing through stuff and not having any patience for their fellow players, not time for a chat. I would love to really dive into the game again, have the AH work as intended.

In Classic, the average player is not seen as a failure. It is on the contrary in fact. The beauty of Classic is that every class served it's own purpose and people appreciated you for it. For instance, if you are a mage handing out food and water to people who were near you in a leveling zone, or if you are that warlock that helped summon someone's friend so they can level together in a zone, they would remember you and you would probably end up being friends. In modern WoW however, these simple and appreciative actions that used to be provided from other players are replaced by AI such as permanent portals in random cities which you used to need a mage for, buffs from other players or blacksmith sharpening stones which would help you defeat mobs quicker are now replaced with mobs being too easy or not challenging.


This is why the game isn't social anymore - together with the cross-server and expanded server population. I loved being that rogue that helped leveling players open their boxes. I loved buffing people in game with my priest and getting a "ty :D" in return. It could also be a nice source of income.

In the modern version of WoW, everyone is fed epics and cool titles so that they feel they are exceptional. However the truth behind this is that if everyone is exceptional, then by default no one is exceptional. That leads me to wonder why do I have to be exceptional to feel special? Why is content being so streamlined to the extent where I am forced to raid mythic and stand out? What's wrong with being average? I feel you have to put in more effort in modern WoW, despite the fact that it's targeted towards casuals whereas in Classic I don't need to have full epics to feel as if I am special.
I can choose my own path to feel special by being the richest on my server, by using my rare mount, by having those rare recipes for enchanting that everyone wants and remembers me for or I can have a notorious reputation for killing members of the opposing faction on my daily 2 am trips to Orgrimmar. The point is I can choose my own path and be remembered for it.


The casual people were in awe of those who raided. Their gear was second to none and understood that it was not for them, if they did not have the time. Same with the PvP crowd - everyone knew a rank 14 on their server by name. Everyone had their own strong points to take pride in: either it was your profession, your gear, your knowledge, your jokes or even your guild - everyone could excel at something and small as the servers were, you were either famous or notorious if you stood out.

In conclusion, Classic will succeed because your character is a reflection of yourself. It shows who you are as a person and how you overcame your struggles. People appreciated that. Classic isn't just about the game play, it's about the connections you make with people and that resonates with a lot of us.


The social aspect. Which is nowhere to be found, because the people you describe fell out with the game now it caters to a different crowd. It's good to get the RPG back into the game, which means also having flaws and burdens, than the arcady hack & slash it has become.

As a hunter, managing your pet, managing your ammo dealing with the scepsis surrounding your class. The fadeleaf rogues needed for their vanish, the poisons you had to make. The different reagents that paladins and shamans needed... the fact that only one faction HAD either a paladin or shaman...

Though I look forward to Classic, what will decide its quality are the people who will play it. These are not likely to be the casuals of today, who want everything within arms reach, and yesterday if could be.
03/09/2018 08:15Posted by Sellina
a reasonable educated guess would simply be that they will go the nostalrius route.
Educated? No, it's not an educated guess, because you have 0 information.
it's just a guess.
mirtle you Need to calm down a bit... seriously i see you on the forums bashing on everyone and criticizing on everyone and everything for nothing... take a chill pill mate... i have as much information as you have. therefore i can deduce my personal educated guess based on what i know on marketing and business.
Sigh.
I'm not angry and I'm not excited or anything. You think so because I'm saying anything other than positive all the time.

The truth is, I'm just looking at Vanilla wow and Classic calmly. I'm not fanboying it, and I don't wear rose-tinted glasses like many of people here do.

While I fully admit that Classic is great news and that I can't wait to play it - I just don't agree that it's as perfect as many people are trying to portray. The problem is that a lot of people are remembering how much fun they had back in 2005, and not thinking about the mechanics and how they live up to modern standards. Some people are actually excited to farm the same mobs for 3 hours using the same 1-spell "rotation", but that excitement is misplaced. It was boring back in 2005, and it will be boring today.

And conserning this thread... there's so many things that can go wrong with Classic. Starting with the main one - that a lot of people will not be able to play it. If you take the population of all pirate servers and combine it - it's not a whole lot of people to be honest. A lot of those who remember Vanilla fondly will be quickly discouraged by the realities of that game, when they go there today. While Classic will probably not be a failure, it may still be long ways off from being a success. And that's not even considering a real possibility that Blizzard will "ruin" something for many people. There are so many things that can go wrong.

That's why I'm saying: It's too early to say if Classic will be a success. It's logical, considering we have 0 info. But the fact that I'm not jumping out of my socks with excitement and positivity at a mere mention of Classis makes you say I'm angry for some reason.

Again, I'm not angry. I don't need to "chill". I'm not negative or bashing anyone, except people who clearly have no idea what Classic is and talk about paladin tanks being best tanks evah.
I am just not unreasonably positive all the time.
03/09/2018 08:47Posted by Mirtle
03/09/2018 08:15Posted by Sellina
a reasonable educated guess would simply be that they will go the nostalrius route.
Educated? No, it's not an educated guess, because you have 0 information.
it's just a guess.


Quite good posts about what a lot of us is hoping and thinking from Xjj and Hendrick and that single line is what you decided to comment on from Sellina.

That's definately not a positive or even neutral look at thing's.

And this is my worst nightmare for classic, general chat of bickering and flaming, for no reason at all.
Took a very long time in wow before the mentality changed on my server, and personally i think it took off in Wotlk, sure some before then, but weren't too bad before then.

I hope we all get the old feeling back, and luckily most i read, suggest they want same.
how in hell do you come to the subject of paladin tanks? appart from killerduki who clearly has an agenda behind his dellusion, i don't think anyone would say that paladins are the best raidtanks. Anyway, in my book you just look to be a tiny bit too much on the pessimistic side when it Comes to vanilla, you should just consider that there are people who aren't as pessimistic. what is the point on lowering their enthusiasm for classic? i for example probably did 90% of the possible content back in vanilla. i am fully Aware of how grindy and buggy it was. but this doesn't mean that i am hyped as f*** for it.
to say there won't be many people playing classic because of reson xyz has as much worth to it, as i would say there will be a lot of people playing it because of xyz.

the OP wrote a nice text where he explained why vanilla was superior to retail in his opinion, which i can fully agree on. but maybe we have other priorities than you of what makes a game great and successful.

you say you are not overly negative about it. i don't know man... you don't seem to be the type of Person who sees the glass half full... i have nothing against you, seriously! but i don't know a lot of people who like party pooper.

ok for my part i rambled enough now. sorry @ OP for this threat Deviation.
back to topic. ;-)
03/09/2018 12:07Posted by Sellina
how in hell do you come to the subject of paladin tanks?
relax, it was just a vivid example that first came to mind.

Case in point - I don't get annoyed by anything other than those cases.

03/09/2018 12:07Posted by Sellina
what is the point on lowering their enthusiasm for classic?
That would be pointless.
But I'm just sharing my opinion. Which in this particular thread - it's too early to say how great and successful Classic will be. People who overhype the hell out of it can use a bit of clear thinking from time to time.

03/09/2018 12:07Posted by Sellina
to say there won't be many people playing classic because of reson xyz has as much worth to it, as i would say there will be a lot of people playing it because of xyz.
EXACTLY!
There's no info about how it'll look like yet. That's why I'm not saying either way.
I'm saying that it's too early to tell, and that there are many ways how Classic may not be successful. Doesn't mean it 100% won't be.
03/09/2018 12:27Posted by Mirtle
03/09/2018 12:07Posted by Sellina
how in hell do you come to the subject of paladin tanks?
relax, it was just a vivid example that first came to mind.

Case in point - I don't get annoyed by anything other than those cases.

03/09/2018 12:07Posted by Sellina
what is the point on lowering their enthusiasm for classic?
That would be pointless.
But I'm just sharing my opinion. Which in this particular thread - it's too early to say how great and successful Classic will be. People who overhype the hell out of it can use a bit of clear thinking from time to time.

03/09/2018 12:07Posted by Sellina
to say there won't be many people playing classic because of reson xyz has as much worth to it, as i would say there will be a lot of people playing it because of xyz.
EXACTLY!
There's no info about how it'll look like yet. That's why I'm not saying either way.
I'm saying that it's too early to tell, and that there are many ways how Classic may not be successful. Doesn't mean it 100% won't be.


lighten up cupcake. Your whole demeanor is a buzzkill. Hope you have someone in your life to put a smile on your face daily. You deserve it!.
Listen up cupcake.
These forums are not here to celebrate the Rose Glasses Club, or to maintain your "buzz". It's not about being fanboy heaven and singing praises 24/7.
Deal with it.
I'm one of those people who are hyped to the edge of my seat for Classic.
Yes, I realize I will never be 14 again, playing an MMO for the first time. I realize the grind will be very real, but that's what I'm all about when it comes to games. I can't wait to return to my favourite grinding spots in Azeroth and farm the same mobs for hours, competing for the spot with the opposite faction at times.
I don't want a game with shiny graphics and fancy cutscenes. I want quests that take way longer than they should and reward you with some !@#$ty greens. I want a timeconsuming, cozy and at times boring experience. That's what Classic is to me.

I probably won't sub for very long, but I really can't tell yet. I guess it depends on how well populated the servers will be and if I can find a decent enough raidingguild.

The fact that I get to take with me my previous experience, granted it's not much compared to those who played private servers for the last ten years. It will be so fun to return to Classic for a few months atleast, and get that grinding fix. I'm stoked.
I'm pretty sure that Classic will be an early success no matter what. It is something new from Blizzard and an MMO too. Even if it is just a remake of an old game there will undoubtedly be enough early interest to make it a success.

It is the long term success that I am more worried about. That is where all the little details regarding progression make a big difference. My guess is that the game will also need fresh servers from time to time or some kind of seasonal system. There is only so long that a server with everything opened up and everyone geared to the teeth stays interesting.
04/09/2018 02:37Posted by Trajan
I'm pretty sure that Classic will be an early success no matter what. It is something new from Blizzard and an MMO too. Even if it is just a remake of an old game there will undoubtedly be enough early interest to make it a success.

It is the long term success that I am more worried about. That is where all the little details regarding progression make a big difference. My guess is that the game will also need fresh servers from time to time or some kind of seasonal system. There is only so long that a server with everything opened up and everyone geared to the teeth stays interesting.


I always was an advocate of a Diablo 2 like ladder system in Vanilla WoW. I made the first thread about this in early 2005, but sadly it was mostly dismissed.

And it functions just like in Diablo 2 (sorry I don't know !@#$ about D3 that's why I'm refering to D2...), you have seasonal servers and you have the permanent servers. You have 2-year seasons, after that every character gets copied to the permanent realm(s) and the seasonal servers reset.

That keeps the game fresh and will fix the inevitable ''new servers plzz ??'' thing that Vanilla WoW has troubles with.
04/09/2018 02:52Posted by Nelithia
I always was an advocate of a Diablo 2 like ladder system in Vanilla WoW. I made the first thread about this in early 2005, but sadly it was mostly dismissed.

And it functions just like in Diablo 2 (sorry I don't know !@#$ about D3 that's why I'm refering to D2...), you have seasonal servers and you have the permanent servers. You have 2-year seasons, after that every character gets copied to the permanent realm(s) and the seasonal servers reset.

That keeps the game fresh and will fix the inevitable ''new servers plzz ??'' thing that Vanilla WoW has troubles with.


I have to disagree here.

WoW players (Classic specifically) are nothing like Diablo 2/3 players in terms of mentality. Two vastly different communities and attitudes.

That type of ladder system works for Diablo 2, but it wouldn't work for an mmorpg like WoW.

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