So, what does Blizzard quality mean?

Classic Discussion
I would say it is possible the Nost-guys are consulted/working on the project. After their meeting with Blizz they asked Elysium to stop using their stuff etc etc.

It would be a smart move of Blizzard tbh. These guys have invested alot of time into Vanilla. they have a good idea what the impact is on the old world when you rerelease this game after 15 years. They have an idea of what the community want.
they just know alot about the game.

Blizzard atleast hearing these guys out would be the best for all of us. wheter they will openly communicate that the Nost-guys are on their team that is a different thing all together.
I can assure you, there are plenty of employees inside Blizzard who are both passionate about Classic AND have higher skillset than Nost admins.


Blizzard will of course have experienced professionals who are at least as good as any private server developer, who might also be a professional. What they don't have though is experience in designing a Vanilla remake. It involves a lot, and I do mean a lot of details within the confines of the lifetime of the game. It is a ton of questions with answers that are not at all obvious. That experience can be valuable no matter where it comes from.

Also I think you are making an assumption in thinking that game developers have a huge passion for the intellectual property rights of the massive corporation they work for. It's probably the lawyers who worry about that stuff.
02/09/2018 14:54Posted by Trajan
What they don't have though is experience in designing a Vanilla remake.
Why would they want such experience?
They have experience in designing the original Vanilla. They have the old server codes, databases. Then, they have experience in designing modern MMO engines.

What value does the experience of trying to mimic someone else's ideas have?
Literally zero.
Any game systems - a good game designer is better than a copy-maker.
Any coding - Blizzard's programmers will handle better than any of the Nost ones.
What community wants? Nost team has no more idea about that than Blizzard, because they never improved or tweaked anything - just copied it as close as possible. The best that they can do is tell Blizzard to replicate their pirate server, and then read a forum for hints.

02/09/2018 14:54Posted by Trajan
It is a ton of questions with answers that are not at all obvious.
Examples.
Which questions do you think Nost team had to answer? Their goal was always to make as close of a copy as possible. They never even thought about improving things - they went as far as replicating some of the Vanilla bugs, just to make it as close as possible.
This approach - is something that Blizzard doesn't need a ton of advice for.
02/09/2018 16:04Posted by Mirtle
02/09/2018 14:54Posted by Trajan
What they don't have though is experience in designing a Vanilla remake.
Why would they want such experience?
They have experience in designing the original Vanilla. They have the old server codes, databases. Then, they have experience in designing modern MMO engines.

What value does the experience of trying to mimic someone else's ideas have?
Literally zero.
Any game systems - a good game designer is better than a copy-maker.
Any coding - Blizzard's programmers will handle better than any of the Nost ones.
What community wants? Nost team has no more idea about that than Blizzard, because they never improved or tweaked anything - just copied it as close as possible. The best that they can do is tell Blizzard to replicate their pirate server, and then read a forum for hints.

02/09/2018 14:54Posted by Trajan
It is a ton of questions with answers that are not at all obvious.
Examples.
Which questions do you think Nost team had to answer? Their goal was always to make as close of a copy as possible. They never even thought about improving things - they went as far as replicating some of the Vanilla bugs, just to make it as close as possible.
This approach - is something that Blizzard doesn't need a ton of advice for.


Vanilla changed a lot of during its time. How exactly that goes with Classic is an open question that none of us knows the answer to, and based on interviews Blizzard doesn't either. They have also asked questions, like which version of a dungeon to use, that indicate that they are not copying the full progression of Vanilla. So that then opens up many questions about how the game will progress.

Are BGs open at the start?
What will the talent trees look like?
How many debuff slots?
...

All this stuff makes a massive difference to the end result. Sure it would be nice if they just copied what really happened but it doesn't look like that is going to be the case. They definitely don't have experience with using a mix of features from different time periods.
02/09/2018 16:33Posted by Trajan
All this stuff makes a massive difference to the end result.
Just a thing like UBRS, which went from being 15 man dungeon to 10 and finally 5 man (although 5 man was during the Shattering if I remember correctly, so either 15 or 10)
02/09/2018 16:33Posted by Trajan
Vanilla changed a lot of during its time. How exactly that goes with Classic is an open question that none of us knows the answer to, and based on interviews Blizzard doesn't either.
No no no.
Those are questions that BLIZZARD asks. Now tell me the question that Nost team can help them find answers to. There's none, because just like Blizzard they never went there.
02/09/2018 18:58Posted by Mirtle
02/09/2018 16:33Posted by Trajan
Vanilla changed a lot of during its time. How exactly that goes with Classic is an open question that none of us knows the answer to, and based on interviews Blizzard doesn't either.
No no no.
Those are questions that BLIZZARD asks. Now tell me the question that Nost team can help them find answers to. There's none, because just like Blizzard they never went there.


Yes they did. Private servers do exactly that. They take 1.12 and build a progression around it. It is actually very close to what Blizzard is doing based on the little communication that we have from them. I'm not a fan of that approach but if it is what it is going to be then it is better to do with help from people who have done it before.
Who are these designers/developers that were there 15 years ago and are still there now?
I thought all of them were gone.

Again, the Nost team has experience with rereleasing Vanilla in the present and know what gets abused etc.
I think they would have had a lot of meetings about what "new" classic WoW would be. It can't just be the 1.12 client and nothing else.

So at the very least, I think they're aiming for all the graphical and server improvements that they've worked on for so many years to be carried over. At least for the server improvements, they've already confirmed this.

Plus, players ideally shouldn't need a separate client to connect to Classic realms.
So, probably:
1. Classic WoW Content - as it was
2. 2018 WoW graphics and server-side code
3. Don't think it hurts anyone to have pets and mounts earned outside Classic in there - with Classic limitations regarding speed, no flight, etc.
4. Probably some rebalancing here and there, prices and whatnot
5. Any other quality of life improvements that won't turn Classic WoW into non-Classic WoW, if it makes any sense (e.g. showing quest location on the minimap since players will install mods for that anyway, but not having dungeon finder)
6. Will probably have micro-transactions available ? Boost to lvl 60 Classic ?

Together with proper customer support, server uptime, this would result in Blizzard quality.

Not sure timeline progression of private servers hosting vanilla WoW is the way to go. It inevitably results in server pop moving to newly opened private realms and old ones die.
02/09/2018 13:29Posted by Mirtle
02/09/2018 12:12Posted by Zienix
Ah I always love it when I see people talk about "pirate servers" like they know what they're talking about while they clearly haven't a god damned clue.
What clue?
Personally, I started WoW on a pirate server back in 2005. I quickly moved on to retail.
And I played on Nost just a couple months before it was closed.
I'd say I know enough and have a clue.

I call them as I see them. I know that many people are trying to make themselves feel better calling them "Private" servers, not even realizing that it's intentional play on words.
They are pirating the game.
Thus - I call them Pirate.
Deal with it.


Private servers in 2005 were abysmal! I remember trying out private server during BC and it was so terrible I vowed to never play on one ever again.

But then I did and it blew my mind how blizz-like they managed to make them. Playing on good one these days can feel like you playing on blizz server back in the day.

And no, Nostralius was not one of them. I have no idea how it managed to attract so many people since it had terrible scripting. Again thou, many servers have extremely blizz-like scripting.

Well and when only way to play some game is piracy...I really don't care. That is blight of "game as services" devs don't care if all work they done goes down the drain and becomes unplayable since it does not bring them money anymore.

Every gamer should be happy that there is someone that is making an effort of keeping this stuff alive. No matter the legality of it.

There is no way Blizzard would be making Classic if there were no private servers. They are only doing it since they can see there is still money to be made from it.
03/09/2018 00:09Posted by Sylfamas
2. 2018 WoW graphics

I doubt that, unless as a toggle. Looking at this job listing suggest they are indeed going for the old vanilla look.
https://careers.blizzard.com/en-us/openings/oYEO7fwh


Restore old models and animations
Re-implement old shader behavior
Transform database data
Build classic UI elements
Repackage binary distributions
Work closely with artists to revive the classic game elements


03/09/2018 00:09Posted by Sylfamas
6. Will probably have micro-transactions available ? Boost to lvl 60 Classic ?

Leveling service is probably one of the most horrible ideas for Classic. Most of the game back then, was about the leveling experience. Not to mention you could face whole pre-made guilds on PVP servers rolling out on day 1 as level 60's, good luck questing on those servers. On PVE (and PVP) servers, people would begin raiding within a month if not less. Which is really detrimental of a, afaik, static server enviroment. Lastly, the economy would be totally screwed, when a lot of things gets cornered on the market, simply because level 60's have early access to a lot of stuff, and on PVP servers there will be areas you might not even get close to, for farming.
03/09/2018 07:30Posted by Vlkovic
Well and when only way to play some game is piracy...I really don't care.
YOU don't care as a player.
In this thread, however, we are talking more about what Blizzard would care for. And if it was your work and your money on the line - you would NOT be impressed with people stealing profits from you.

03/09/2018 07:30Posted by Vlkovic
There is no way Blizzard would be making Classic if there were no private servers.
In fact, they would have probably made it sooner, because the amount of interested people who constantly ask for it would be greater.
As it is now, there're thousands of people who don't even care for official Classic, because they have their pirate servers for free already.

03/09/2018 07:30Posted by Vlkovic
Every gamer should be happy that there is someone that is making an effort of keeping this stuff alive. No matter the legality of it.
I strongly disagree. I think that every gamer should strongly rally against piracy, because it impacts the gaming industry more than you think, and only in a negative way.
For every game that is "saved" from oblivion through piracy - there are dozens of good projects that get buried alive by it, never getting enough profit to make a cool sequel, because the Torrent came out on day 1.
PC market especially suffers. Nowadays all the best games have migrated to consoles, and big part of the reason that it's much harder to pirate stuff there. Yes, I know you can jailbreak a console, but you are also losing a lot of benefits by doing that.

I hate piracy apologists.
So, what does Blizzard quality mean?
To me it means that they will do a better job protecting the integrity of the design.

For example, not allowing addons that transplant Live gameplay into Classic.
01/09/2018 13:35Posted by Svarthildr
That former Nostalrius admins are now a part of the Classic team, is probable. But what does "Blizzard quality" mean?


It doesn't mean a thing. It's a patting oneself on the back on the back and trying to comfort players by pointing to the brandname and acting like that itself is the solution to everything. Basically they're saying to you to have faith that they will deliver... we'll just have to see :)
Only the highest quality, game breaking bugs will be implemented. /s
strongly disagree. I think that every gamer should strongly rally against piracy, because it impacts the gaming industry more than you think, and only in a negative way.
For every game that is "saved" from oblivion through piracy - there are dozens of good projects that get buried alive by it, never getting enough profit to make a cool sequel, because the Torrent came out on day 1.
PC market especially suffers. Nowadays all the best games have migrated to consoles, and big part of the reason that it's much harder to pirate stuff there. Yes, I know you can jailbreak a console, but you are also losing a lot of benefits by doing that.

I hate piracy apologists.


Well I hate people who bundle all piracy together like you.

I 100% hate piracy of new games, that is hurting developers without question but how the hell can you see private servers as bad as people pirating new games?
I bet you also LOVED how Nintendo shut-down those ROM sites right? No matter that you can't buy those games anymore (man if nintendo at least gave people some alternative, and no....1% of those games being sold trough Mini-Nes and virtual console is simply not enough, there is 1000s of games not aviable anywhere other than those ROM sites). No matter that that not even one third of those were for Nintendo platforms.

Ofc people pirating current games that are available to buy in stores and online is not only illegal but also immoral. But pirating stuff that you can't? While still illegal I fail to see how is it immoral.

I mean are you sort of person who also never tried weed because it's illegal? Not everything that is illegal is illegal for good reason.

Also piracy was there for a long time. Yet currently PC gaming is better then ever. Just because Rockstar is greedy and want people to buy their games 3 times does not change that. It's not industry norm.

PC gaming was pretty damn abysmal last generation. So many games were console exclusives...now thou? How many games are PS4/PC or Xbox/PC exclusives? Ton of them. That is unheard of. Not even saying anything about huge influx of japanese games being released on steam in recent years.
PC gaming is doing better than ever. Piracy or not. Sure it would be even better without piracy but...it's obviously not end of all things because otherwise it would kill PC gaming as doomsayers like yourself are saying since ever.

You are simply against preservation of games. How can any gamer be against that I just don't get. "It's illegal." should not matter to consumer. Especially when in many cases piracy is only frigin way because devs themselves just don't care. Till people start doing it for them and they shut it down because screw gamers. We do what we want because we are in the right.

And then you have schills like you supporting them for some insane reason.

Tbh here all we gonna do here is argue :D you will never see my point and I will never see yours. Just wanted to say that I think people like you are insane.
You think people like me are immoral, pirate bastards.

Well I bid you good day sir.
I have no gods damned idea tbh with you. They never fixed half the bugs in Legion and mobs still bug out and get stuck in walls 14 years later, very frequently.

Don't even get me started with Overwatch. So I got no idea what its supposed to mean tbh.

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