Personal Loot

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07/09/2018 17:09Posted by Museki
Probably gonna be me soon.

Edit: 0 Pieces of loot from raids so far, fun stuff :)

8 mythic+ 1 piece of loot.

Can't join pug mythic+ much often anymore, since my ilvl is way below a lot of others.(Gotta love 0 loot)

So I waste 10-15 minutes finding a M+

Another probably 20-30minutes on a M+.

Already losing motivation to even farm anymore.


i feel you bra 5/8 0 loot out of group :(
07/09/2018 22:10Posted by Myeong
07/09/2018 21:52Posted by Museki
They're trials for a reason.

You don't want to focus gearing up a trial, only for them to leave after getting geared up.


That's a jackass behaviour indeed, though it is just about the same as ordering someone to give up their... let's say a 50% upgrade. I would honestly leave that guild instantly if someone ordered me to give up something I need - especially if I was a trial.


Tbh I would do this too, my loot is mine, Ain’t nobody taking it from me.
Btw to add something from my experience...
so i got these 2 370 items in heroic this week, which were an upgrade, indeed, blizz.
But both have no haste on them, while the gear i had, had.
So with this lost of haste my already clunky spec became even clunkier, once i equipped them. In addition you screwed ele this expansion once again, so every item i get is a waste for the raids potential.

or in other words: SINCE I AM NOT AN EGOISTIC !@#$, I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO ACTUALLY GIVE THESE ITEMS TO SOMEONE, WHO NOT ONLY HAD BETTER USE FOR THE STATS, BUT WHOS CLASS ALSO IS NOT UNDERPERFORMING, aka one of our hunters.
But apparently giving these items away, because i want to, is not an option, because it is an "upgrade" for me. AN UPGRADE THAT I DID NOT WANT.
Personal loot is good for pugs.
But horrible for guilds progress from normal to mythic.

Even progress has been time gated haha.
10/09/2018 08:03Posted by Kyrua
Personal loot is good for pugs.
But horrible for guilds progress from normal to mythic.

Even progress has been time gated haha.


why. when i get loot i can give to whom i want. so does not come to the guild to agree who gets the loot? i give loot away to others if i dont need it. And if Its guildrun and Its decided that the shammy healer should get it i would hand it over. Its for the guild. So can't really see the problem here. Other than a lack of feeling in control.
10/09/2018 08:28Posted by Pip
when i get loot i can give to whom i want.


Except when it's higher ilvl but bad stats so it's not good for you. But hey, I guess you do you
...

This. The guys who are crying about PL in this thread are actually either upset cuz they can't steal loot from their guild or be given free loot by their masters. Or are upset because they cannot get boosted. ANYONE who participates in a raid deserves a chance at loot. Even the guy who just joined your 10 year old guild with 10 year old members. Anyone who puts time into the game deserves to get something out of it. They spend their valuable IRL time.

This is one of the reasons blizzard put a stop to this too. Unfair and unjust loot distribution in guild was definitely one.


It's ok, you have no idea why mythic guilds claim loot and then award it to whoever the council thinks benefits the most as you haven't touched a single piece of challenging content. If you did, you'd knew that a piece of gear is 80% a tool and only 20% a reward. It's not about your selfish sense of entitlement to "reward" because you participated in a kill. You're not an individual god among men, the chance that a boss died because of YOU is radically low. It's a team effort. And in teams, you share, you don't claim.


this is only partially true and anyone who ever did hardmodes with guild is perfeckly aware of it.

yes loot councils are most effective gearing methods but lets be honest there are /were dozens of thousands of lower end progression guilds who never ever treated loot as tools. pls dont pretend that the mentality that you try to show here is existent anywhere below world top 500-1000 max. anywhere lower its just every man for himself and it always was like this.

any looting methods used there were never to ensure progression - it was to ensure that long time members had priority on loot in case that new recruits will jump guilds after 1-2 months .
Btw to add something from my experience...
so i got these 2 370 items in heroic this week, which were an upgrade, indeed, blizz.
But both have no haste on them, while the gear i had, had.
So with this lost of haste my already clunky spec became even clunkier, once i equipped them. In addition you screwed ele this expansion once again, so every item i get is a waste for the raids potential.

or in other words: SINCE I AM NOT AN EGOISTIC !@#$, I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO ACTUALLY GIVE THESE ITEMS TO SOMEONE, WHO NOT ONLY HAD BETTER USE FOR THE STATS, BUT WHOS CLASS ALSO IS NOT UNDERPERFORMING, aka one of our hunters.
But apparently giving these items away, because i want to, is not an option, because it is an "upgrade" for me. AN UPGRADE THAT I DID NOT WANT.


this is interesting . i have seen very few ele shamies in mythic 0 indeed but those that i have seen were pulling very good numbers. maybe spec does feel clunky but its giving quite good resoults in dungeons . dunno about raids
10/09/2018 08:33Posted by Dhoobspal
10/09/2018 08:28Posted by Pip
when i get loot i can give to whom i want.


Except when it's higher ilvl but bad stats so it's not good for you. But hey, I guess you do you

can't see what ilvl or stats has to do with anything. Even if it was a 100% increase and it was decided that it would better for a healer to get the item i would hand it over. If you have guildie who wont hand it over you can freeze him out from next raid or kick him. If the individuels you play with can't set guild need before his own should'nt be in a guild. If all are thinkong of individual needs then it's not a guild. well you can have a name and such but it will never be a guild. Just a doosh party.
07/09/2018 17:16Posted by Daevius
Never let friends stand in your way to competing with Method for world first. Stay hardcore.


I hope this guy doesn't actually think he stands a chance lol. Yeah you go up against corporate sponsored no lifers who play 15h a day every day, who have 100's of fan boys feeding them mats just so they can say I'm in method. See how war you get
10/09/2018 09:04Posted by Pip
can't see what ilvl or stats has to do with anything. Even if it was a 100% increase and it was decided that it would better for a healer to get the item i would hand it over. If you have guildie who wont hand it over you can freeze him out from next raid or kick him


You WILL NOT be able to trade anything that is an ilvl upgrade. That is the entire issue with this system, Blizzard doesn't care if you don't want the item and wants to help progress your guild. I agree with you, if someone needs it heck yes they should get it to help progress the guild as a whole. But we can't do that anymore because of forced personal loot and that's pretty damn trash
10/09/2018 08:28Posted by Pip
10/09/2018 08:03Posted by Kyrua
Personal loot is good for pugs.
But horrible for guilds progress from normal to mythic.

Even progress has been time gated haha.


why. when i get loot i can give to whom i want. so does not come to the guild to agree who gets the loot? i give loot away to others if i dont need it. And if Its guildrun and Its decided that the shammy healer should get it i would hand it over. Its for the guild. So can't really see the problem here. Other than a lack of feeling in control.


I am stupid, I wanted to say the complete opposite with master loot. I think I unplugged my brain(I had to get out fast of my house after writting my mesage) so let's re-do it:

I wanted to say that personal loot is only fine in the scenario of pugs+guild raid on dungeon only if the guildies have no intention to give you the loot to begin with and/or always give it to their teamates. On one side its ok, on the other "personal" side you do everything for them for nothing.
But that is just a "if" it happens. Because in the end personal loot isn't changing your chance at loot, its just changing the fact of being able to exchange your loot.

Aside of that personal loot is bad if even on pugs + guild groups the guildies would have wanted to trade it with you equally even if their mate needed the gear, aka just doing a simple roll.

Thus making personal loot horrible for any kind of group being, pugs/pugs x guild/ full guild.
It is a pure time gate, if you can't trade loot, people will all take much more time to gear and play more, and pay more.

And even as an argument for those who say "but I don't wanna give my loot, my loot is my loot" Well, your loot is still your loot in master loot, you juste have the possibility to give it or not.

To sum up, Master loot pleases everyone and everyone has the choice, but its horrible for blizzard. Even need or cupidity pleases everyone except those who get ninja'ed.
Personal loot is horrible for everyone but pleases blizzard.

I am stupid senpai, sorry, forgive me. Gomenasai.
well i havent experinced it yet. so if that is the case i agree it's a bit problematic.
Common people down here have been getting screwed for years over because of mythic raiders cheesing content. You people stack classes, do split runs, stomp current content and start whining about how easy it was and how game needs more content etc.

You stacking certain classes make them get nerfed while they were not really that op at first place but they can be stacked to cheese stuff.

People rushing content then going " lul how are you not 903373 ilvl already game has been out for 2 weeks making it virtualy impossible for people who dont play same character everyday find any endgame content.

You people whining about having to do anything but raids and mythic plus content creating a very negative emvironment around.

You brought this changes upon us, if its being ruined hardcore elites are to blame.

Also there is a reason us forums are viewed more by devs then here. Eu forums are a hellish !@#$hole where there is only whining and cursing.
10/09/2018 08:33Posted by Lilîith
any looting methods used there were never to ensure progression


You are joking, right? I really hope you don't actually believe the bullcrap you just said, because if you do, it means you are still living in pre WoD years, where, yes, ML was abused in that way, but only in pugs and semi-pugs.
Nowdays, this is a flatout lie used to justify removing the option of gear funneling in order for players to spent more time progressing.

10/09/2018 09:27Posted by Vanimelde
Common people down here have been getting screwed for years over because of mythic raiders cheesing content. You people stack classes, do split runs, stomp current content and start whining about how easy it was and how game needs more content etc.


This is the saddest excuse I have red in a while. Also, you are delusional, if you think common mythic guilds did splitruns, or stacked classes. Guilds from the range of 2500-100 world don't stack classes and don't do splitruns.

10/09/2018 09:27Posted by Vanimelde
People rushing content then going " lul how are you not 903373 ilvl already game has been out for 2 weeks making it virtualy impossible for people who dont play same character everyday find any endgame content.


Hahaha, this is not mythic raiders that do that. Casual players have these unreal standarts, becayse for them ilvl > everything. Mythic raiders do not pug raid content!
10/09/2018 09:27Posted by Vanimelde
You stacking certain classes make them get nerfed while they were not really that op at first place but they can be stacked to cheese stuff.


first of all this is a flawed game design that forces people on high end to play certain classes and specs.
im not a mythic raider but if I was first thing I'd do would be playing efficiently and doing what's best.

secondly, this is still happening, game literally forcing you to have certain classes and specs. for example, Zul fight with/without priest(s) is soo much more easier/harder.

10/09/2018 09:27Posted by Vanimelde
People rushing content


oh no, someone playing as much as they want! even tho it doesnt affect anyone else disaster..

10/09/2018 09:27Posted by Vanimelde
going " lul how are you not 903373 ilvl already game has been out for 2 weeks


dont think anyone does that, and even if it was a case, it wont really change.

10/09/2018 09:27Posted by Vanimelde
You people whining about having to do anything but raids and mythic plus content creating a very negative emvironment around.


Dont think most people do this either, and if one out of million does it, its not really something to generalize.

10/09/2018 09:27Posted by Vanimelde
Also there is a reason us forums are viewed more by devs then here. Eu forums are a hellish !@#$hole where there is only whining and cursing.


?XD
Sounds like mythic raiding teams have a choice
Stay loyal to their members or stab their own members in the back over a slightly higher chance or a slightly quicker clear for.. I don't know, if you're not rushing it for realm first what are you rushing it for?
Personal loot is the most unfair, most disgusting and most destructive way of loot distribution ever created in games history. Many people get shafted like they never thought possible.

edit:
10/09/2018 10:07Posted by Sylvare
Sounds like mythic raiding teams have a choice
Stay loyal to their members or stab their own members in the back over a slightly higher chance or a slightly quicker clear for.. I don't know, if you're not rushing it for realm first what are you rushing it for?


I'm pretty sure it's over the head of an LFR scrub, but in order for a mythic guild to stay relevant, keep getting new members and stay afloat it needs as good a place in progression as possible. At the moment you just cant bring 30 different people to raids to progress, it takes time to learn the mechanics, gear is kind of important and it jsut won't work, so you have to choose people. And if sombeody is poached, resigns, gets hacked or whatever, you're pretty much !@#$ed.
10/09/2018 10:07Posted by Sylvare
Stay loyal to their members or stab their own members in the back over a slightly higher chance or a slightly quicker clear for.. I don't know, if you're not rushing it for realm first what are you rushing it for?


I have no clue what you are talking about, and I have a feeling you don't either. Slightly quicker clear is higher world rank, which means better recruits, which means better clear, which means higher world rank...
Nowdays being 11/11M means nothing... The only messure of how good a guild is - is world ranks, and how fun is it for one, who gets screwed because the stupid PL system gave their tank 380 weapons, while their rogues are with 355? Or when the two Hunters NEVER roll a bow. Or when the healers get geared before the mages and warlocks... Do you get what the problem is right now?
Guilds are under extreme pressure to clear fast, and fight for the ranks they aim at, in order to have a good pool of recruits, because mythic raiding is exausting. People get burned out a lot faster than the regular casual pug. And when a good quarter of the raid team decideds they had too much, and the guild doesn't have a good pool of recruits to chose from, it dies.

So yeah, slightly faster clear is a huge deal!
10/09/2018 10:16Posted by Rezista
10/09/2018 10:07Posted by Sylvare
Stay loyal to their members or stab their own members in the back over a slightly higher chance or a slightly quicker clear for.. I don't know, if you're not rushing it for realm first what are you rushing it for?


I have no clue what you are talking about, and I have a feeling you don't either. Slightly quicker clear is higher world rank, which means better recruits, which means better clear, which means higher world rank...
Nowdays being 11/11M means nothing... The only messure of how good a guild is - is world ranks, and how fun is it for one, who gets screwed because the stupid PL system gave their tank 380 weapons, while their rogues are with 355? Or when the two Hunters NEVER roll a bow. Or when the healers get geared before the mages and warlocks... Do you get what the problem is right now?
Guilds are under extreme pressure to clear fast, and fight for the ranks they aim at, in order to have a good pool of recruits, because mythic raiding is exausting. People get burned out a lot faster than the regular casual pug.


You're talking out your !@#$ sorry.

What gets guilds new recruits is the guild being somewhere people want to be.

If your guild is full of try hards who drop players at the drop of a hat because they never got lucky with TF or the class they play isn't in the top 5%. Then guess what you're going to bleed members faster than a guild that took 10 weeks to get a full clear rather than 5.

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