Personal Loot

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07/09/2018 21:28Posted by Rezista
07/09/2018 21:26Posted by Elaynne
Everyone has equal chance to get loot.


Equality of outcome is not a fair system.


Personal loot is equality of opportunity, not outcome
i have to agree, the personal loot may work for a casual guild but for hardcore/semi hardcore guilds is a hit in the balls. Probably they think this makes nm/hc more replayable but the decisions of loot on this kind of guilds should be taken by loot council, not RNG.

As for SP... i am seeing people in my guild getting benched for low dps/heal/mechanics, there are some l2p issues but there is an SP in my guild which was a 90%+ logs player struggling mid-bottom of the dps chart, about to get benched, if there wasn't worse players in my guild he would be benched, same for enh shamans or other subpar specs. Feels bad.
10/09/2018 10:21Posted by Harleymozz
You're talking out your !@#$ sorry.


That comment is quite funny comming out from a 6/8nm and 11/11 hc 0/11M Argus. Cool to have such people in Mythic discussions just as much as having a want-to-be-a-!@#$-star Kardashian discussing law with president of the US.
10/09/2018 10:21Posted by Harleymozz

You're talking out your !@#$ sorry.


Yeah sure. You are someone who only raid Normal and Heroic, he raid Mythic, but when we talk about Mythic raiding he is the one talking out of his !@#.

And this is how WoW (and real word?) get screwed up other years: by listening too much to peoples who think they are the one who know how things works despite having no experience about it.
People stack classes because ever since the class design was changed to: every dps spec should be viable etc, there is no reason to bring a class that's lagging a bit behind in numbers. In classic, there was, because it was intended that certain classes do less damage, while providing something else for the group. It also involved a bit of micromanaging on the RL's side. But, it had a positive side. You didn't have to worry about your class having low dps, you were getting to raid anyway because only Druids can Innervate and Hibernate, et cetera.

Now, it's a game of - which class is the upper 1% of the logs? If atm it's rogues, stack rogues. Shadow priests are lower? Just bench them. It's not like they bring anything other than numbers.

That's why, while as a game much !@#$tier than today, vanilla had awesome class design when it comes to raiding. Yeah sure, your resident Druid wasn't a damage machine, but he was irreplaceable in other ways.
10/09/2018 11:32Posted by Synthium

Now, it's a game of - which class is the upper 1% of the logs? If atm it's rogues, stack rogues. Shadow priests are lower? Just bench them. It's not like they bring anything other than numbers.

That's why, while as a game much !@#$tier than today, vanilla had awesome class design when it comes to raiding. Yeah sure, your resident Druid wasn't a damage machine, but he was irreplaceable in other ways.

You may want to be bring some classes for utility,but the problem right now is not 1%,the difference on some bosses are 30% of dps between some classes.
If a class do 18k on a boss and another do 14k,why a mythic progression guild should bring the 14k one?
People who Hashtag also sniff glue. just sayin...
10/09/2018 10:21Posted by Harleymozz
You're talking out your !@#$ sorry.


That comment is quite funny comming out from a 6/8nm and 11/11 hc 0/11M Argus. Cool to have such people in Mythic discussions just as much as having a want-to-be-a-!@#$-star Kardashian discussing law with president of the US.


but this is not only mythic raiding discussion . this is discussion about overall personal loot and guilds .

unless you want to change discussion for topic " lets bring back ML only to Mythic guilds " you have to discuss every single aspect of it including all guilds and people who raid only normal/hc with their guilds .
10/09/2018 11:39Posted by Toiren
10/09/2018 11:32Posted by Synthium

Now, it's a game of - which class is the upper 1% of the logs? If atm it's rogues, stack rogues. Shadow priests are lower? Just bench them. It's not like they bring anything other than numbers.

That's why, while as a game much !@#$tier than today, vanilla had awesome class design when it comes to raiding. Yeah sure, your resident Druid wasn't a damage machine, but he was irreplaceable in other ways.

You may want to be bring some classes for utility,but the problem right now is not 1%,the difference on some bosses are 30% of dps between some classes.
If a class do 18k on a boss and another do 14k,why a mythic progression guild should bring the 14k one?


i belive that he means social aspect of raiding - your approach although without a doubt very succesfull is also kinda impersonal and unsocial - yes resoults matter but at the very moment when you see your raiders as nothing but performance number game looses a lot of appeal for many many people.

thus whats the point of even being in guild if they are treated as such - they can find this kind of behaviour in one of thousands of pugs that form every hour.

again - yes its efficient approach , yes it will give you more kills but think what is the price you pay at the end of day .
10/09/2018 11:46Posted by Lilîith
10/09/2018 11:39Posted by Toiren
...
You may want to be bring some classes for utility,but the problem right now is not 1%,the difference on some bosses are 30% of dps between some classes.
If a class do 18k on a boss and another do 14k,why a mythic progression guild should bring the 14k one?


i belive that he means social aspect of raiding - your approach although without a doubt very succesfull is also kinda impersonal and unsocial - yes resoults matter but at the very moment when you see your raiders as nothing but performance number game looses a lot of appeal for many many people.

thus whats the point of even being in guild if they are treated as such - they can find this kind of behaviour in one of thousands of pugs that form every hour.

again - yes its efficient approach , yes it will give you more kills but think what is the price you pay at the end of day .

Im not in a guild right now,it's not my approach.
It's the approach of guild that go for top 100 mythic clear and also on top of that add the personal loot,more RNG to get into the group.
10/09/2018 11:09Posted by Greengby
10/09/2018 10:21Posted by Harleymozz
You're talking out your !@#$ sorry.


That comment is quite funny comming out from a 6/8nm and 11/11 hc 0/11M Argus. Cool to have such people in Mythic discussions just as much as having a want-to-be-a-!@#$-star Kardashian discussing law with president of the US.


Haha you haven't done it so you don't understand.

No mate I made my choice, i chose decent people over dickhead try hards like you. Mythic isn't hard a monkey with half a brain can do them.

Problem is any guild recruiting usually is the bottom of the barrel try hards who bleed out players because the guild is full of obnoxious wankers for the reasons I've already stated. The good guilds you would want to join all ready have full rosters and ain't looking for new blood, especially tanks 9 time out of 10 the guilds looking for a tank for their main team are the guilds you never want to join at a mythic level.

So yeah just because I've opted out of the !@#$show doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.
I main Blood with my 370 2-handed and I dopped a 370 one-hand in raid. Since I had no weapon for off spec I never play, I couldn't trade it to a dps buddy. I got PISSED.
They do this to stall the geargrind to keep people subbed. For sure they knew people would react like this but I bet they predicted that it would not effect sub-numbers that much.
Blizz has, more and more over the years, introduced a lot of things they predict to increase their revenue at the expense of the long-time commited fans. All of these timegated and mandatory grinds that you need to keep logging back in for, together with artifical (of course RNG based) roadblocks against targeting gear efficiently makes the game frustrating.

I personally belive this game has a lot more in it. They would not need to "cash out" by constructing arbitrary reasons for players to keep subbed, make a good game and it will happen anyway. Just like it always has.
I will never understand the continued fight between A and C why can’t it be bloodie B (both).

The only reason why blizzard did this is to make us play longer ( im not buying the split farming story ).
we play wow. we don't have "friends". we have people who farm loot for us.
Lets try and keep it civil. The discussion has gone all over the place since i last read it. Calling someone a dickhead doesn't get you anywhere and only shows what a type of player i don't recruit for and hopefully other guilds search people's names on forums before accepting players. I know we do, and safe to say you wouldn't have gotton a response.

It seems to me i have stirred up the pot with this debate, which is the absolute reason why i made the initial post. I want Blizzard to see that, paying customers are not happy with this change. We are not asking for a lot. We just want Master Loot back for organised content, i would even take just Mythic Master Loot.

I fully agree. For any non organised event, without a shadow of a doubt it should be set to personal loot to prevent greedy people.
#FreeMythicMasterLoot
10/09/2018 11:32Posted by Synthium
In classic, there was


Tell that to the ferral and balance druids, enchantment shamans, retry paladins, shadow priests, and any warlock, aside the one putting curse of elements. Don't compare classic to nowdays. It is stupid. Classic had 1 tank spec, about 4 dps ones, and 1 and a half healers'

10/09/2018 11:42Posted by Lilîith
but this is not only mythic raiding discussion . this is discussion about overall personal loot and guilds .


What are you even talking about?
...

Yeah people abused it, and people still joined ML PuG's and bad guilds.

Don't blame the system because you joined a crap team, I love to give loot to main raiders because it helps guild I'm friends with.


Blame the system? Not a single guild used personal loot in legion mate.Why lose the privilege? And instead of jumping to conclusions its not because i joined a crap team but because I was one of the "veterans" in my old guild and I saw the !@#$ from the benefited side.I saw trials not touching huge upgrades so that an officer gets a warforged +5IL upgrade.Or the item he already had but now with a gem slot. And dont tell me there is a single guild out there where its GM will not receive all the upgrades he wants to.

Personal loot has its flaws obviously( the not tradeable even if small upgrade for instance) but it provides the exact same % chance of drop for every single member of the raid. How can you be agaist that? Thats right because you dont want the chance with the others you want the higher one through master loot.


You want an example of a guild that raids and didn't feed the gm every upgrade?

Right here. GM here would rather pass even if it was equal upgrade for them both.

And you ask how one can be against personal loot, let's see now, let's see...
There is the issue OP brought up, you don't get drops, you don't do the numbers, you're benched until you get those numbers, if you're lucky they'll take you to farm nights. Granted that isn't an issue for most people, but does it seem at all fair to you that your ability to compete and even do the hardest content is reliant on rng being in your favor?

As the mindset seems to be ML meant it was guilds vs people. How is the other side of that 'argument'? Previously the system was you did your trial period in a guild, to show them you were up to the standards needed for their level, be it heroic/mythic. This keeps stability in the guild, which keeps them downing bosses. Provided the guild is good, has that base, the trials know full well they'll be getting that loot too. No guild worth their salt is going to fail a trial based on absolute dps, they'll look at ilvl bracket rankings, ie how that person did compared to others of an equal gear level. So now there is little means to encourage loyalty, you do a trial at one guild, get some gear, hop on to a further progressed guild, etc.

And finally, the basis of the loot system has all the precision of a decapitated chicken running around of a big scoreboard, wherever it keels over and dies, YOU GET LOOT!!! DING DING DING!!!

So yes, that is why I can be against personal loot. I assume response will involve more of these conspiracies by officers and gms to withhold loot from their raid teams, hinder their own progression and loot gain, just to increase their own personal loot gain, because that is totally not retarded.
#FreeMythicMasterLoot

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