Can we add proving grounds back as a requirement to do HC

General
09/09/2018 08:07Posted by Gráinne
Anyone who can't clear PG at Silver level in any spec is going to have a bad time in a Heroic until they're way overgeared.


Good. Keep the morons out.
I see what you're saying, but I don't think proving grounds is the right solution.
It didn't help in WoD, because it's a way bigger problem.

People aren't taught the mechanics of the game while playing (leveling) their characters. You can basically auto attack anything dead, which means they will.

They can ignore mechanics in most dungeons and get carried through, and they will.

The way to change this, is to fundamentally change the game. Make it punishing when you don't do stuff, and slow the pace down, dramatically.

Currently, WoW is way more pew pew kill killt than it would have to be to properly teach players that doing mechanics is important.

This is why I skip normal and heroic, and mostly do guild content, and the occational pick up.

Additionally, if you meet someone who is nice doing random groups or group finder, ADD THEM AS A BATTLE.NET FRIEND so you can play with that person again. It makes the game that much more enjoyable.
09/09/2018 08:10Posted by Bukachu


Long time no see miyleeeeeeeeee


I usually avoid start-of-expansion forum posting, for two reasons. 1. I've been playing the game and I've actually been enjoying myself and 2. Whiners. It's the same with every expansion, 10 different threads all on the same non-issue topic, all by people pretending to be game critics.

Also by posters who, in a few more weeks, we'll probably never hear from again.
Mythic 0 Is what heroic used to be that's how they fixed it.

Heroic is the same as a old school normal. If you can't do that then I'm lost for words.
No,No,No!

We do not need that junk anymore.

It was the worst thing that Blizzard have ever invented!
10/09/2018 02:33Posted by Besideyou
No,No,No!

We do not need that junk anymore.

It was the worst thing that Blizzard have ever invented!


It was easy tbh and if you couldn't do it, that was a you issue others shouldn't have to suffer because you can't play your class.
I can remember back in wod you had to have bronze or silver or something which was trivial and all the posts on the forums complaining that they couldn't do it. But i have to say as annoying as it was dungeons during the first few weeks of the xpac were so much smoother.
I can remember back in wod you had to have bronze or silver or something which was trivial and all the posts on the forums complaining that they couldn't do it. But i have to say as annoying as it was dungeons during the first few weeks of the xpac were so much smoother.


Those kind of people should stick to normal until they can do it, then.

I'd be fine with it coming back, so long as you only have to do the tank challenge on one character for all tank specs, the healing challenge on one character for all healing specs, etc.
Did dungeoning ever recover from the switch to zerg-fest, in Wrath, that saw many - who were used to using CC, etc properly in TBC Heroics - leave the game...?

Many skills were lost, at that point & I don't feel that enough of the player base even appreciates that the skills have been lost. There are some that still know how those skills are meant to be used & want to use them, but the majority have no time/patience for it to become 'a thing' any more.

Adopting those kind of Class skills is also what made for a generally higher skill-level of Raider... why else is the 'Mythic Race' for each new Raid so predictable as to who will get it cleared first...?
nah let everyone in i say..

why should they stop people from doing heroic i mean its not like it is content which is meant to last longer than a couple of days.
10/09/2018 03:02Posted by Eighjan
Did dungeoning ever recover from the switch to zerg-fest, in Wrath, that saw many - who were used to using CC, etc properly in TBC Heroics - leave the game...?

Many skills were lost, at that point & I don't feel that enough of the player base even appreciates that the skills have been lost. There are some that still know how those skills are meant to be used & want to use them, but the majority have no time/patience for it to become 'a thing' any more.

Adopting those kind of Class skills is also what made for a generally higher skill-level of Raider... why else is the 'Mythic Race' for each new Raid so predictable as to who will get it cleared first...?


It started somewhere during TBC actually, but no, it hasnt. Most groups I've been in when doing Mythics and M+ don't even use hard cc to split packs.

I feel like just having a group that knows how to pull properly is rare enough already. (and so far that's just 2 tanks: me and another)

10/09/2018 03:05Posted by Darthtoon
nah let everyone in i say..

why should they stop people from doing heroic i mean its not like it is content which is meant to last longer than a couple of days.


It wouldn't stop them anymore then reaching the required ilvl already does. Both are things they have to put in some minor effort to get.
10/09/2018 03:37Posted by Avendalia


It wouldn't stop them anymore then reaching the required ilvl already does. Both are things they have to put in some minor effort to get.


are you sure about this ?

look at my ilvl and look at how many mythic i've ran this expansion. getting the ilvl requiring effort is a common misconception in BFA community i have done nothing to progress and am already nearly ilvl 340 ... incase u dont look ..

this is that i did in total ..

2 mythic dungeons
1 island expedition
1 warfront

i did so many more normal dungeon to reach 305 than i had to do anything else to get to 305 - 338
10/09/2018 03:05Posted by Darthtoon
nah let everyone in i say..

why should they stop people from doing heroic i mean its not like it is content which is meant to last longer than a couple of days.


...The point of proving grounds wasn't to STOP people from doing heroics, is was to encourage people to do heroics properly.

If Proving Grounds Silver stopped you from doing heroics (I found it piss easy on an undertuned enha shaman) then frankly, you shouldn't be in heroics anyway.

"Letting" people play is fine. But sometimes, those people just aren't worth having on your team. Some players are just outright awful.

I had a hunter yesterday doing 2.3k dps, single targetted on AoE fights, AoE'd on single target fights, somehow manayed to jump out of the bridge and die in Shrine of the Storm and outright refused to communicate in any other language than Spanish. The proving grounds requirement would have at least tought him the difference between AoE and Single Target.

...No idea how he managed the jump off the bridge though. I suppose the only thing that could help him with that is suicide watch.

___

Why are the worst players in the game always playing a hunter?
09/09/2018 06:49Posted by Souldefíler
And what makes you think that making people jump through a hoop will somehow make them the best players ever?

Does making everyone sit a driving test make them the safest drivers on the road?

Answers on a postcard to your car insurance provider.

The vast majority of people I saw ran proving grounds for one reason. So they could stand and e-preen about having completed gold or earned the achievement for completing tank silver as a healer. When it came to running dungeons they carried on as normal hoping their dps would carry them.

Cata however... Well until everyone complained "too hard... nerf it... nerf it..."
it's not about being the best player. Its about getting to know the BASIC tactics and mechanics.
09/09/2018 07:38Posted by Demoniqué
Proving grounds proved well, nothing. They where merely an annoyance and as someone pointed out, just an e-peen exercise for the more moronic amongst the player base.


I disagree with this. While I wasn't huge on them because I usually play with a friend and it was solo content, I spent a few good hours in there on my priest for the 30 waves thing. I'm not saying it now to "exercise my e-peen", don't think I ever mentioned it, but it was as challenging of an experience as some mythic bosses, and for a lot of people that can't commit to raids but still want a challenge, it was a really good piece of content. I recall I recruited one of my best guild's raiders that had no raid experience, but had amazing results in proving grounds. On the other hand, silver was pretty basic and it taught me a few things when playing my alts on which I'm not that experienced.

09/09/2018 08:07Posted by Gráinne
However, I think many more problems in dungeons are caused by not knowing mechanics specific to the dungeon, especially trash mechanics. Which mob in the pack to kill first? Which spell needs to be interrupted? And nothing teaches that except repeated running of the same dungeon.


I'd say here is a bit of a flaw in the game. Sure you have the dungeon journal, but that one only tells you boss abilities, you have to go out of your way to find out trash mechanics on 3rd party sites, and they are so many, even fewer people learn them. A game should not need learning pages of text. More comprehensive announcements in game during fights would be better - kinda what bossmods do for bosses.

As for the OP, I don't care either way really, but while not solving all the problems, I think proving grounds were a good thing.

09/09/2018 07:38Posted by Demoniqué
If players pug mythic or mythic+, then chances are at some point they are going to come across some complete muppets. Why not add players who play well to their friends list, via realID and group up with them again ? All too often players finish a 5 man and either just type "tyvm for the run" and leave or just leave party in a rush to find the next pug.

This is how I played the game in TBC, and how I started raiding eventually. I tried to do it in later expansions, but with x-realm it doesn't work anymore. I rarely saw those people online and eventually forgot why I added them.
Well there are various ways to cater for this, but I assume many will not be happy.

Method 1: The difference in gear between each dungeon type is increased. Normal ilvl 330; Heroic ilvl350 and Mythic ilvl370. This will have people play through all the dungeons for sure.

Method 2: This is best implemented with method 1. No carries. People with higher ilvl gear cannot be queued with low ilvl characters. This makes the person actually learn the mechanisms. this should not apply for alts and guilds (only after being a member of the guild for more than 2 resets)

Method 3: In Normal, Heroic and Mythic dungeons, ilvl is scaled down. Again this will allow people to experience the mechanisms.

In my opinion ilvl and boosts are causing these problems. People know that they need to have a certain amount of gear (some times ridiculously high for the content they are doing) or else they do not get accepted in a group. They just purchase some runs to get the gear, resulting in not knowing what to do.

I believe if the above is sorted, people will stop asking for ridiculous high requirements.
The solution is right in front of you and has been there all the this time. Join a guild and / or community focused on your preferred content type, or start your own. Let those who wonder what their abilities taste like play among themselves.
09/09/2018 04:00Posted by Assassia
I just wonder why you script killer dont ask ppl to show off 3 simple achievement from aszhara.

Trial of fire: Shows you the player know how not to stand in fire.
Trial of shadow: Shows you the player know how mobs acts.
Trial of frost: Shows you the player is able to avoid moving stuff.

3 things i am sure is really importent in PvE :D.

But what do i know, i'm just a LFR raider!


So what ach's would you suggest for Alliance players ?

AFAIK those are Horde only.
10/09/2018 08:57Posted by Pointybeard
09/09/2018 04:00Posted by Assassia
I just wonder why you script killer dont ask ppl to show off 3 simple achievement from aszhara.

Trial of fire: Shows you the player know how not to stand in fire.
Trial of shadow: Shows you the player know how mobs acts.
Trial of frost: Shows you the player is able to avoid moving stuff.

3 things i am sure is really importent in PvE :D.

But what do i know, i'm just a LFR raider!


So what ach's would you suggest for Alliance players ?

AFAIK those are Horde only.

Nope. Alliance can do them too. I have them on my Nelf mage. I wouldn't think them as good as PG Silver for this purpose, though.
Proving grounds have never proven anything. You can lead a donkey to the water but you can't force it to drink.

Things are this way because Blizzard has made their game incredibly easy over the years. People have become placid and careless about mechanics, because they don't really have to care that much about them. Either healers are so strong that they can heal through it, or tanks are strong enough to mitigate it.

So when we once in a blue moon have mechanics that might end up doing some harm, people don't interrupt them because why should they care? They've been pampered by Blizzard for years now anyway.

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