Elemental in 8.1 [Feedback]

Shaman
Make Elemental Blast a baseline spender.
Just got back from PTR, and I have noticed some positive changes.
I shuffled talents to:
Earthen Rage
Totem Mastery
Doesn't matter
Call the Thunder
doesn't matter
Surge of power
Stormkeeper
Your rotation effectively changes to ES>LB>LB>LB>ES>LB>LB>LB>ES with procs of LvB inbetween, I was able to get around 17K peak and 11.7 avg DPS with 11K peak and 7.5K avg DPS on Live atm
Within 3.5 minutes I dealt 2.46M DMG with:
27.9% LB overload
24.4% LB
17.3% ES
5.9% FS
5.4% LvB
4.6% Fire Elemental
3.9% earthen rage

The rotation seems relatively fast and reactive, you get a constant load of LB with guaranteed overload, with constant (And much more fluent then currently) stream of ES (Sometimes stacking up to 2 possible casts) and random procs of LvB to insta cast after hardcasted LB.

To be clear, I started playing back in Legion, so I can't compare the state of Ele prior to it. But overall I liked the changes as they made me able to cast something meaningful all the time when you get the train going. IMO that's much better than the current dmg dropoff with zero LvB charges and no ES.

The negative stuff I pointed out is that this playstyle requires you to mostly stand still hardcasting LB, so in mobile fights you will encounter a sensible damage falloff.
The other thing is that LvB overall and it's procs do not bring anything to the table and just become an instacast filler to bump up damage a bit. All other stuff seem to synergise well and bring an intuitive and fast playstyle.
So my idea is to add some meaning to LvB and it's procs either by adding more proc damage or giving it some passive effect like increasing nature damage by % or giving a haste/crit buff for 15-20 secs.

The unlimited power talent seems reasonable enough to pick with all the overcharges all around the place, but it feels too inconsistent to take. While testing I was able to maintain around 5 stacks with them dropping off quite rapidly. IMO it's duration should be increased to 20-30 secs while lowering the numbers so that it would create a more fluent Haste curve.

P.S. I was thinking of re-rolling for the next raid, but with these changes and some buffs for Resto for it to be better in M+ I would definitely stay on Shaman.

P.P.S. On the second thought I really miss being able to spec into multiple viable build back in Legion. Even with 8.1 changes we are forced in a pre-defined gamestyle with talents just tweaking it a bit.

P.P.P.S :D Just saw the idea from Zhokk of making LvB a maelstorm spender with a buffed damage and a free-cast procs. IMO it would fix the PTR rotation and make all skills much more meaningful compared to the current state of Ele on Live ATM.
I am happy to see a return to a lightning based caster. Absolutely delighted to not be shackled to lava burst casting or worrying too much about flame shock cooldown.

Though as I see it, aftershock should be -much- better with this build. Since the procs will ensure a LOT more earth shocks, and thusly far more surge of power buffed lightning bolts and gaining maelstrom you can spend on double EQs thanks to call the thunder. With potentially very high chance of chaining them.
I am happy that we will be lightning casters once again, but the gameplay doesn't sound very enticing. If you look at the class as a whole, and take for example resto shamans you are forced to use all of your abilities. Elemental should be no different. Most people who rolled shaman rolled it because it feels like it is challenging you a bit when you play.
@Саоджин Would this mean a shift to crit/haste you recon, or is mastery possibly also an addition here?

Secondly, does this mean though to use Lava Burst only when it procs, and if not, to go for LB? I don't mind the change, I do love the Lava Burst animation a lot. Hope it won't be totally disappearing, but it seems with elemental shaman, it is either Lightning Bolt or Lava Burst :-D

And I take it, you pick Earthen Rage since you don't really need 2 Lava Burst like this?

In a youtube movie on 8.1, we now used first Lava Burst, and cast Fire Shock whilsts Lava Burst was in the air, and made the crit. So opener is Laba Burst, Fire Shock and then basically your rotation?
03/10/2018 12:09Posted by Kudir
@Саоджин Would this mean a shift to crit/haste you recon, or is mastery possibly also an addition here?


Crit>haste>mastery=versa, tho all will be quite close together in value. A lot closer together than they are under the Ascendance builds.

03/10/2018 12:09Posted by Kudir
Secondly, does this mean though to use Lava Burst only when it procs, and if not, to go for LB? I don't mind the change, I do love the Lava Burst animation a lot. Hope it won't be totally disappearing, but it seems with elemental shaman, it is either Lightning Bolt or Lava Burst :-D


Ensure the SoP Lightning proc is up at all times, so never cast LvB after ES unless you already have 3 stacks of the LB proc available. Hardcasting LvB is still worth it unless you have about 60% crit, at which point LB's average damage becomes higher. 60% crit is attainable with some azerite procs but isn't really practical to aim for permanently. Generally, Lava surge is going to proc often enough that you don't have to hardcast very much; with only 1 charge on LvB you're typically only able to hardcast it once or twice a minute or so.

03/10/2018 12:09Posted by Kudir
And I take it, you pick Earthen Rage since you don't really need 2 Lava Burst like this?


Echo is pretty useless with LB build, yes. ER is pretty powerful for a 15 talent (about 500 DPS in 360 gear) and has the virtue of being fully automatic, allowing you to spam more empowered LBs.

03/10/2018 12:09Posted by Kudir
In a youtube movie on 8.1, we now used first Lava Burst, and cast Fire Shock whilsts Lava Burst was in the air, and made the crit. So opener is Laba Burst, Fire Shock and then basically your rotation?


Basically, you do whatever it takes to get to 50 mastery ASAP without using SK to get there. Once you're there, you swing into the ES-LB rotation and trigger SK with SoP up. This leads to massive LB burst damage.

It feels very, very fast. The ramp-up is shorter, the amount of time between Earth Shocks is very low, and you're waiting about 60 seconds between big bursts of damage rather than 3 minutes while also doing more damage in between. And the bursts are not effected by movement, unlike Ascendance.

on a static training dummy, with no buffs, using the asc build with optimal rotation I was pulling about 10k; using the SK/SoP build and just using LB/ES spam I was getting 12.5k. Mixing in LvB and playing with a better rotation, I'd guess 13-14k on ST is easily reachable, along with extremely decent AOE potential.

If this makes it to live more or less unscathed, then Ascendance is dead.
Just got back from PTR, and I have noticed some positive changes.
I shuffled talents to:
Earthen Rage
Totem Mastery
Doesn't matter
Call the Thunder
doesn't matter
Surge of power
Stormkeeper
Your rotation effectively changes to ES>LB>LB>LB>ES>LB>LB>LB>ES with procs of LvB inbetween [...]


Those are positive changes?
Having such a rotation?
Why do people want a 2 spell rotation?

Just buff frostshock and make Icefury viable, ffs. It's so much fun, actually gives us an option to cast on the move and makes the rotation way more interesting.

Also would make "master of the elements" a pickworthy option, where you buff every single frostshock.

Lightning based caster.. wtf guys, go play arcane if you want to cast 2 spells all fight long..
With the talent shuffle of last night, how does the lightning build look now?

Mainly that master of the elements and call the thunder swapped places. Meaning the 60 tier now got master of the elements, storm elemental and liquid magma.
My guess is that this might up the importance of lvb again to take advantage of master of the elements together with lightning bolt?

Whereas the 30 tier sits on aftershock, call the thunder and totem mastery.

Considering that tm gives more overloads, and the fact that flameshock is lenghtened to 24s. I think TM remains the better choice in the 30 tier or am I wrong?

And im ecstatic to get rid of Ascendance, its such a clunky talent to use with the short 18s duration currently. with the things you have to place and pop, having to let it tick down to refresh point before ascendance to get a full 15s available.
What if Liquid Magma Totem could spread our flame shock onto targets? Or at least have a chance to spread flame shock. Warlocks have a similar mechanism for Cataclysm/Immolation.

And LMT should be a base talent.

I like the idea of a lightning based caster, but it needs to be fun and interesting to play as well. If that is going to work, there needs to be some gameplay changes too. Not just some simple stat tweaks. Something new is needed so that it can be useful on the move too.

Some more utility would be nice too. Something that makes people want to bring shamans to M+. Bring poison removal back, let us have a buff totem that could make a difference with a small extra dmg boost for the group or let all shaman specs have Earthen Wall as a base talent.

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