Devs not understanding Alts

General
From the AMA, it seems the devs don't really understand the point of "Alts" existing.

There are a total of 36 specs in the game, so it feels kind of silly to think that from the start of the game, that our "main" we picked the right class on the first shot since day one, full commitment.

Down the road, we wish to play other classes and other specs that may strike our fancy, it is a vast game after all, and we may something that we just better at. As an example I started as a hunter, found I liked playing Paladin more, and wish to try out other classes to see if something just clicks for me better still.

... But then switching to that is pain-staking since we already put so much time and effort to another character. Another character may have all the reputations and progress, and to start that again from scratch is disheartening. To have all those specs and to just be committed to 3 or 4 with little to no chance to switch really kills motivation to even attempt anything else.

And yet this is only one view to why alts exist, I'm sure other people have others. To hear "Philosophically, what's the point of an alt?" really feels like the dev team is missing the point and missing connection to the players.
It is about The money, simple math, think about whole situation from a Dev perspective, or even more, from goblin perspective, if they give you opportunity to gain access to reputations and So on for every other character youve choosed to play for reasons then theyre losing hours, hours which you could spend to gain all of this.. And hours in this case means subscription and your adventage put into The game - something to do, So its very easy for them to just leave it like that. Hours means $, So no, your wrong, they understand much more than you think they are, but truth is, theyre not stupid, gaming nowadays is a huge bussines, and we cant help it, that is something we cant achiev in future, but lets keep trying, at long last weve got permanent xmogs.. So Who knows..
Arames, it's not that simple.

Adding activities to a game that take long to complete does not simply mean that people will play the game for longer and the business producing the game will make more money. If the activity is boring, people won't do it. If it's boring but somewhat rewarding, people might do it to a certain extent until they burn out.

If Blizzard wants to retain their WoW players, they need to focus on the fun activities and remove the extremely boring stuff everyone hates (e.g. reputation grinds).
16/09/2018 08:11Posted by Arames
It is about The money, simple math, think about whole situation from a Dev perspective, or even more, from goblin perspective, if they give you opportunity to gain access to reputations and So on for every other character youve choosed to play for reasons then theyre losing hours, hours which you could spend to gain all of this.. And hours in this case means subscription and your adventage put into The game - something to do, So its very easy for them to just leave it like that. Hours means $, So no, your wrong, they understand much more than you think they are, but truth is, theyre not stupid, gaming nowadays is a huge bussines, and we cant help it, that is something we cant achiev in future, but lets keep trying, at long last weve got permanent xmogs.. So Who knows..


Funny.
Thats the reason i dont play wow this much because i usually just play the 'current content' and take a break until something new comes out.

And thats not because im bored of the game or i dont feel like doing stuff no no i like doing stuff in this world i like farming i like collecting things and farming achievments and so on but whats the point?
If you do all of this and then
you get bored of your class or maybe a new race or class comes out or you want some change and play some alts or your class is just dog!@#$ because blizz doesnt know how to fix some easy buffs for 8 months all this years you spend are pretty much gone.

how is this fun?

i wanna do different things and not the same over and over and lose it.

Wow should be like a movie u should be able to watch it from wherever you want whenever you want and you should also be able to chose your tv and obviously start where you stopped the movie.
Movie=Progress

i hope this makes sense.
Sorry for my bad bad english.
That just goes against the fundament of character progression. Characters are meant to be built up, access to high-level content and gear is earned through investing time and effort. There is no other content except character progression.

Hypothetically, let's say you started at a capped character (mythic bis gear etc.). What would you do now? Would you go farm M+ or the raid? Maybe once but that's that. You would have nothing to earn, no reason to do it more than once for the experience.

For character progression to have a point you just can't allow alts to be on par with the mains this early in the expansion. That time will come but not yet.

Inversely, if you have:
Hunter A, that has invested 76 hours to gearing
Hunter B, that has invested 12 hours to gearing
Why should they be equal?

This is all in the very core of MMO gameplay. The more time you invest, stronger your character gets. There is little content outside that cycle. And it's intended, many find that cycle entertaining and rewarding.
16/09/2018 10:51Posted by Thedice
That just goes against the fundament of character progression. Characters are meant to be built up, access to high-level content and gear is earned through investing time and effort. There is no other content except character progression.

Hypothetically, let's say you started at a capped character (mythic bis gear etc.). What would you do now? Would you go farm M+ or the raid? Maybe once but that's that. You would have nothing to earn, no reason to do it more than once for the experience.

For character progression to have a point you just can't allow alts to be on par with the mains this early in the expansion. That time will come but not yet.

Inversely, if you have:
Hunter A, that has invested 76 hours to gearing
Hunter B, that has invested 12 hours to gearing
Why should they be equal?

This is all in the very core of MMO gameplay. The more time you invest, stronger your character gets. There is little content outside that cycle. And it's intended, many find that cycle entertaining and rewarding.


I'm sure the tabard I'm wearing, which is still gated behind a month of progress since WotLK, makes me mighty from this "progression"
16/09/2018 11:48Posted by Sàbér
I'm sure the tabard I'm wearing, which is still gated behind a month of progress since WotLK, makes me mighty from this "progression"

That's a cosmetic. In your OP you talk about gameplay between multiple speccs. For these gameplays to be equal in output they require gear and gear requires effort.

So, are you not asking for an option to switch a class and retain all the gear-progress like your OP implies?
16/09/2018 07:56Posted by Sàbér

... But then switching to that is pain-staking since we already put so much time and effort to another character. Another character may have all the reputations and progress, and to start that again from scratch is disheartening.


YOU are the one who doesn't know the understanding of alts for blizzard. Kappa

In fact just the word "alt" sums it all. Y'oure looking for an alternative character that should have less work on it because you are already playing a main.
All wrong, back then there was no "alt", it was only "I play 2 characters, I play 2 roles"
You see alts as alts in modern wow. In wow the mmorpg we saw a second character like a totally second main. A complete different class identity, a complete different life.

So its not a problem of view, they just want you to play longer by not allowing you right away some account shared things. Back then you didn't need to be forced to play longer, you would just do it.

Alt for you is an easier character overall, for them its a mean to make you play more and they have to tweak it so you feel its easier but not that much.
16/09/2018 08:11Posted by Arames
It is about The money, simple math, think about whole situation from a Dev perspective, or even more, from goblin perspective, if they give you opportunity to gain access to reputations and So on for every other character youve choosed to play for reasons then theyre losing hours, hours which you could spend to gain all of this.. And hours in this case means subscription and your adventage put into The game - something to do, So its very easy for them to just leave it like that. Hours means $, So no, your wrong, they understand much more than you think they are, but truth is, theyre not stupid, gaming nowadays is a huge bussines, and we cant help it, that is something we cant achiev in future, but lets keep trying, at long last weve got permanent xmogs.. So Who knows..


Actually, it may be about the money, but not because they think we will do the same things on alts and extend our playtime, BUT because changing the status quo would impede their services revenue: Faction Change, Race Change, etc.
That's where they make a lot of money.
You wouldn't need to do any of that if you could just create an alt with all the benefits of your main.
I dont think blizzard should make rep account wide people could abuse it,but i think blizzard should add a catch-up mechanics if you already have exalted with a rep.
Same with levelling,if you already have a character at 120 you should be able to buy a token bind on account that increase experience gained by 100% when consumed
doesnt work past lvl 119.
The worst part for me is the rep grind on alts. There are plenty of catch up mechanics for gear.
16/09/2018 12:02Posted by Thedice
16/09/2018 11:48Posted by Sàbér
I'm sure the tabard I'm wearing, which is still gated behind a month of progress since WotLK, makes me mighty from this "progression"

That's a cosmetic. In your OP you talk about gameplay between multiple speccs. For these gameplays to be equal in output they require gear and gear requires effort.

So, are you not asking for an option to switch a class and retain all the gear-progress like your OP implies?


Seems like your point of view is centered around gear, dps, etc.

The main perpetrator in anything gating alts would be reputations, just like my original post briefly implied. Reputations seem to be a huge road-block that even forces you to reboot a storyline in a zone so you don't farm easy huge rep bonus quests, or like 10 horde characters all turning in a Champions of Azeroth daily to fill in one pool of rep.

That needs rework since it kills longevity of players trying out other classes, specs, and (allied) races.

Everyone has started to feel it worse when they make a fresh toon with an allied race and they have to redo even old content rep to get a mog or access to a zone's priviledges (like teleports or flight paths).

On a personal note: I would love to finish all of the storylines of BfA since the start of the expansion with vigor, but rebooting the storyline with my other toons and allied races have turned it into a chore, a chore that's only going to get worse as more get introduced and the burnt out will get more noticeable regardless if they made the best story in history.
The problem is not alts of whatever.

Its the fact of making mandatory long grinds like reputation for champion of azeroth.
Back then reputations were a cool extra but not utterly necessary, because ofc back then it wasn't about excessively extending the time you sub.
Thus there was no problem starting from square one on multiple alts for reps or other grinds like azerite or artifact power.

Now there is, the grind feels mandatory, which make alts a chore to make.

SERIOUSLY GUYS, back then we had EVERYTHING, we had every single power right from the start we only had our gear to grind, it was long enough because the gear wasn't handed to us like candies like today. Today we have like 3 systems to grind in order to stay relevant...
We have to farm and grind the (same)powers we had before LOOOOOL
We have to farm and grind reputation tied to the ilvl of our gear to be relevant
We have to farm and grind useless and unfinished and gated other powers tied to our gear.
I can even add that we have to farm the ilvl of our gears because the content is gated by ilvl as well.
16/09/2018 12:42Posted by Kyrua
The problem is not alts of whatever.

Its the fact of making mandatory long grinds like reputation for champion of azeroth.
Back then reputations were a cool extra but not utterly necessary, because ofc back then it wasn't about excessively extending the time you sub.
Thus there was no problem starting from square one on multiple alts for reps or other grinds like azerite or artifact power.

Now there is, the grind feels mandatory, which make alts a chore to make.


The problem isn't alts, not sure where you're getting that.
People have made alts since the dawn of video games.
Classes we try out before deciding "you know? I really like this gamestyle" sticking to it for a time and then trying something new when you don't feel like being a cleric or a dragon knight for all your gaming existence.

However in WoW nowadays? It punishes you. They do not want you to switch it up and then wonder "why u no like hyooman warrior? I thought u made blood pack!" and want you to stick with that character like you married it.

Like dang, I hope I can find something with a little more freedom. Again the post was made due to the AMA, because it feels like this concept they do not understand or grasp whether it be with gating reputation or ANY future content that might punish alts worse than rep or the HoA implemented this expansion. HoA gating shouldn't have been a THING since last expansion experience, but it feels like this has flown over their radar and its time to speak up about it before they make something worse in the horizon.
Well it's still an RPG after all, and in every RPG game you make a commitment to the character you've created.

Switching your ''main'' character actually should be hard and disheartening, else it'd just be too easy to jump to FotM specs all the time and the game would just feel silly and lose all immersion (that is still left...). Imagine playing a battleground with 20 BM hunters and 10 disc priests, just for it to become a 30 boomkin battleground the next month. Or to be in a raid group with 15 sub rogues. High-end raiding guilds would require their players to constantly switch characters.

16/09/2018 12:19Posted by Toiren
I dont think blizzard should make rep account wide people could abuse it,but i think blizzard should add a catch-up mechanics if you already have exalted with a rep.
Same with levelling,if you already have a character at 120 you should be able to buy a token bind on account that increase experience gained by 100% when consumed
doesnt work past lvl 119.


There actually was in MoP 6 years ago. You could buy an item at exalted rep. that would double all rep gains with that faction for all characters on your account, but it seems they somehow didn't like that idea.
With an alt I usually don't need to get reputations, or all the quests, or anything I farmed on main (most of the time I just gear up alt through dungeons) .... But this time around I hate the fact that I need Champions of Azeroth rep for an alt ... This sort of rep that are crucial to gameplay should account wide ... Or at least give us some sort of catch up for this ...
16/09/2018 13:06Posted by Sàbér
16/09/2018 12:42Posted by Kyrua
The problem is not alts of whatever.

Its the fact of making mandatory long grinds like reputation for champion of azeroth.
Back then reputations were a cool extra but not utterly necessary, because ofc back then it wasn't about excessively extending the time you sub.
Thus there was no problem starting from square one on multiple alts for reps or other grinds like azerite or artifact power.

Now there is, the grind feels mandatory, which make alts a chore to make.


The problem isn't alts, not sure where you're getting that.
People have made alts since the dawn of video games.
Classes we try out before deciding "you know? I really like this gamestyle" sticking to it for a time and then trying something new when you don't feel like being a cleric or a dragon knight for all your gaming existence.

However in WoW nowadays? It punishes you. They do not want you to switch it up and then wonder "why u no like hyooman warrior? I thought u made blood pack!" and want you to stick with that character like you married it.

Like dang, I hope I can find something with a little more freedom. Again the post was made due to the AMA, because it feels like this concept they do not understand or grasp whether it be with gating reputation or ANY future content that might punish alts worse than rep or the HoA implemented this expansion. HoA gating shouldn't have been a THING since last expansion experience, but it feels like this has flown over their radar and its time to speak up about it before they make something worse in the horizon.


That is exactly what I said and you nailed it. They punish you for making alts because they want you to sub longer being on alt or main. Or they want you to sub longer thus punishing you for making alts.
Same.

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