Call the Thunder & Surge of Power

Shaman
there seems to be some delay on what these two abilities do but here goes :

"Call the Thunder - Your maximum Maelstrom is increased by 30, and the Maelstrom cost of Earth Shock and Earthquake is reduced by 10.

Surge of Power - Earth Shock also enhances your next spell:
Flame Shock: The next cast does not incur a cooldown.
Lightning Bolt: Your next 3 casts will cause an additional Elemental Overload.
Lava Burst: Reduces the cooldown of your Fire (or Storm) Elemental by 6 sec.
Frost Shock: Roots the target in place for 6 sec."
Horrible talents, i will just copy pasta my post from the US forum

Not for real, lore? Are you kidding me? Those are some underwhelming talents. For call the thunder i maybe can see a use in very heavy AE situations, that require us to fire off both Stormkeeper Chainlightnings at once, but else? Can't see any use for that. Our maelstrom generation is so low right now, we won't ever get to fill that maelstrom bar up.

The second one... Flame shock does not incur a cooldown?!?! ARE YOU ....!? Damn i have to work hard here not to go full rage mode. First you take away the change you gave us in legion and then you feed it back to us, while trying to make it look as part of a 'rework' ?!?!?!?! Also please elaborate how you think we are supposed to use that? It only can somewhat be useful, when you start a 3-target cleave situation with enough maelstrom to fire off an earthshock.....which is....never? Well Zul maybe, if one of the most optimal ways to deal with the hexers would be to cc one, so there goes that free flameshock out the window.

The LB and LvB things look ok, however the lvB thing will throw up a lot of issues again, as if there is a certain phase that you really want to have your FE up, but then it drops off cd like 30 seconds earlier because of that, you sit there with an FE ready, wondering how much dps you are losing right there, because you don't use it.
And lastly, the frost shock root.. yea...useful in pvp...but...uhm.... how exactly are we supposed to get away from an enemy to actually get off an earthshock? Like i am having warmode in mind here right now and it's just not possible.
19/09/2018 05:13Posted by Varileztra
Horrible talents, i will just copy pasta my post from the US forum



i personally like the idea of surge of power but it should effect more abilities giving them an empowered version of said ability or maybe different elemental flavor for effected abilities like winterstorm (thunderstorm) or something. it also shouldn't be linked to earth shock. having to spend an earth shock to get a root from frost shock is clunky .
Surge of power looks fine. ES into no cd FS will increase our swapping without making us a dot class we were in Legion.
19/09/2018 07:32Posted by Hcls
Surge of power looks fine. ES into no cd FS will increase our swapping without making us a dot class we were in Legion.


No it will not. First of all, if you have to swap, that new target is the priority target. By fireing your highest dmging spell onto the old target, you are not prioritizing the right target. Or if the old target is about to die and you fired an earthshock, it would be pointless again, because...yay you have a flame shock that doesn't incur a cd....which is of no use to you, because there is no add around anymore, that you could throw it on.
In addition FS is up any time we have to target swap anyway. The literal only bossfight type, that this talent would be any good at, would be a council fight with 3 targets. And there iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis exactly one of them out right now. In which the two inactive targets take less damage. Yay.
Well in pvp it might have its use? Es - Fs *dispell* - fs
Both look fine,

More malestrom bar + less ressources required for Earthquake make a good combo for stormkeeper and burst AOE ( seriously , caster chain->earthquake->chain->earthquake felt clunky for me). Thought the reduced cost of earthshock alone make it worth to take it ,

Surge of Power Make the spec a bit more diversified : it's an actif talent that give you choices to make during your spell rotation and i am ALWAYS for things like this. Reward flexibility and quick thinking.
mhh still underwhelming...at least they could have made Flameshock cooldownless again..not only for one freakin cast.
Now we get hybrid to monks too XD
And btw which talent goes away for surge?#
Primal Elementalist?
Earthern Rage?
Ice Fury?

All three are needed in some situations.
Ice Fury if you have a heavy movement Fight
Primal Elementalist is just awesome.
Only Talent I could see swapped is Earthern rage...
I’m with Varileztra, Surge of Power can make our rotation rather clunky. I imaine sitting with full Maelstrom for an ES and target is about to die. Either I use ES and will be forced to lightning bolt next target first cause I don’t wanna LB without FS up and if I FS I just wasted my Surge of Power proc on nothing cause I don’t need another FS. 100% when theorycrafting gets done, you will be forced to either use Surge Lava burst or Lightning bolt cause its the highest DPS increase and its gonna feel dissatisfying when you can’t.

Call is alright, nothing special, would rather have some other interaction with or buffed High Voltage. Elemental Overload is great, getting that 2nd proc cast is our thing.

Disappointed with the “rework” except for Stormkeeper change.
Lmao what dog !@#$ changes

Gl hardcasting lightening bolts in pvp or while on the move in pve....
19/09/2018 08:14Posted by Varileztra
19/09/2018 07:32Posted by Hcls
Surge of power looks fine. ES into no cd FS will increase our swapping without making us a dot class we were in Legion.


No it will not. First of all, if you have to swap, that new target is the priority target. By fireing your highest dmging spell onto the old target, you are not prioritizing the right target. Or if the old target is about to die and you fired an earthshock, it would be pointless again, because...yay you have a flame shock that doesn't incur a cd....which is of no use to you, because there is no add around anymore, that you could throw it on.
In addition FS is up any time we have to target swap anyway. The literal only bossfight type, that this talent would be any good at, would be a council fight with 3 targets. And there iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis exactly one of them out right now. In which the two inactive targets take less damage. Yay.
Well in pvp it might have its use? Es - Fs *dispell* - fs


I disagree.

With the new talent you can use your FS on the add that have to be nuked really fast (big adds on the zek'voz are good example), cast lvb, ES, and immediately use FS again on your boss without waiting for the CD. This way you are not wasting the FS uptime and possible LvB procs.
Additonally this change will allow you to keep FS on 2-3 targets which will highly buff our cleave as FS is dealing much more dmg compared to Legion. After every ES you can cast TWO FS before it goes on cd.
19/09/2018 08:14Posted by Varileztra
19/09/2018 07:32Posted by Hcls
Surge of power looks fine. ES into no cd FS will increase our swapping without making us a dot class we were in Legion.


No it will not. First of all, if you have to swap, that new target is the priority target. By fireing your highest dmging spell onto the old target, you are not prioritizing the right target. Or if the old target is about to die and you fired an earthshock, it would be pointless again, because...yay you have a flame shock that doesn't incur a cd....which is of no use to you, because there is no add around anymore, that you could throw it on.
In addition FS is up any time we have to target swap anyway. The literal only bossfight type, that this talent would be any good at, would be a council fight with 3 targets. And there iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis exactly one of them out right now. In which the two inactive targets take less damage. Yay.
Well in pvp it might have its use? Es - Fs *dispell* - fs


I disagree.

With the new talent you can use your FS on the add that have to be nuked really fast (big adds on the zek'voz are good example), cast lvb, ES, and immediately use FS again on your boss without waiting for the CD. This way you are not wasting the FS uptime and possible LvB procs.
Additonally this change will allow you to keep FS on 2-3 targets which will highly buff our cleave as FS is dealing much more dmg compared to Legion. After every ES you can cast TWO FS before it goes on cd.
19/09/2018 11:14Posted by Hcls
I disagree.

With the new talent you can use your FS on the add that have to be nuked really fast (big adds on the zek'voz are good example), cast lvb, ES, and immediately use FS again on your boss without waiting for the CD. This way you are not wasting the FS uptime and possible LvB procs.
Additonally this change will allow you to keep FS on 2-3 targets which will highly buff our cleave as FS is dealing much more dmg compared to Legion. After every ES you can cast TWO FS before it goes on cd.


1. We can maintain 3 FS as it stands right now already... soooooo...whats your point?
2. The thing does not reset the cooldown of FS, it does make your next FS not get a cd. So if you FS the new add, lava burst it and then ES, you still have a cd on your FS left. So.... there is no gain for you.
3. It would only ever be useful, if you can start a council fight with ES. Which you can do...like... never. And when you are infight you have a timer, when the next adds spawn, sooooooooooo you can simply refresh your FS 6 seconds before they spawn and have it ready for the adds. I know, keeping track of timers, very mindblowing way of playing the game and super revolutionary.
Again, we can already maintain up to 3 FS with ease. They merely come up 6 seconds apart from each other, which is not much of a problem, once you are in a bossfight.

And the way they wrote it, it is going to go into the place of earthen rage. You really want to throw away primal elementalist, that grants your fire ele a very strong AE spell, for a QoL thing, that should be fcking baseline to begin with?
For mythic+ it is going to be useless for the simple reason: On a tyrannical week, you want to run boss spec, so you run primal elementalist. During a fortified week there are very specific trashpacks, that you need to really hammer down. So you want to have strong cooldowns. Means you want to have primal elementalist again.
No matter how you turn it, there is only one single possible scenario, that you could want this talent. And this situation is currently not in the game. Well it somewhat is, but the witches in waycrest take less damage while inactive, sooo you only really have the FS up for dem Lava surge procs, for whiiiiiich you don't really need such talent. It's more than enough, if the FS come up one after another,
Surge of Power + Flame Shock borders the insult. Also doesn't feel as impactful as the other empowered spells -as it doesn't really have any bonus effects- not to mention the usability problems on single target when an Earth Shock cast overlaps with a Flame Shock refresh, as we'd have to delay either cast, or risk wasting the proc.

I'd prefer something like this:
  • Flame Shock - Applies 6 additional seconds of Flame Shock to the target and enemies within 5 yds.

It has a certain "Path of Flame" vibe, works decently for multi-target and is not entirely wasted on single target.

That said, I don't find the talent too exciting.
Call the Thunder isn't terrible. The MS cap increase is fairly pointless, since there's really no reason to save MS past the cost of EQ/ES anyway, but the reduced price for ES and EQ means less waiting around to use them, which is good. I guess the increased cap does also allow you to complete LvB spam in Ascendance without overcapping MS, so there's that. Still a pretty middling talent, tho.

Surge is a complete piss take, as literally every one of those procs is useless. ES fires too rarely to make serious use of any of them, so it's just an extra thing to worry about during your rotation with frankly uninspiring rewards.

Flame shock cd elimination on next cast is utter junk, for the reasons Varileztra has outlined. The only time this is beneficial is on 4+ targets, except there using FS at all is a DPS loss compared to pure CL-EQ spam.
Frost shock root is useless in PvE (where frost shock is only used during heavy movement, and the root won't work on bosses) and will be occurring so rarely in PvP that it can't be relied on or strategized round.
LvB reducing c/d of Fire ele might be useful, but isn't going to match the DPS increase from Primal elementialist. If it were placed in the tree so it could SYNERGIZE with PE, then maybe this would be useful. The fact it competes with it makes it worthless.
And the LB increase doesn't change the fact that LB remains our lowest priority spell, and will only be triggered if we have nothing else to cast following the Earth Shock.

Combined with it adding complexity to the rotation for such marginal benefits, I don't see anyone in their right mind picking this.

Really, these talent suggestions suggest Blizzard have no real idea of what they want Elemental to be, and they're just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.
19/09/2018 12:41Posted by Dargaroth
And the LB increase doesn't change the fact that LB remains our lowest priority spell, and will only be triggered if we have nothing else to cast following the Earth Shock.


You forgot, they will buff LB. No one knows the numbers so maybe it will be good. And with Stormkeeper and the LB change to that, even more.
It really feels that they are taking the easy route.

Doesn't feel like they put much thoughts into this....

There has been so many great suggestions from the community. Why not take any of that? How arrgant to always tell the community that we know jack sht about game design.

If Blizz wants us to be turrets so bad then they could remove Flameshock and give back Searing totem.

As long as as searing totem is up, LB will always crit. Can't be dispelled but the totem can be destroyed. 6sec CD. 60 yards range.

In gameplay, it would reward both players that remove totems and shamans finding ways to drop their totems intelligently. Dropping the totem at long range will force melees to either go for it before charging you or come to you but take full LB dmg.

Also rename searing totem to Flametongue totem and give it that fiery snake appearance as the in-game model (toy).
I like the changes. I think the new talents are great.

Surge of Power:

This talent will show if you know what you are doing or not. Best talent. Dont waste Malestrom!

Call of Thunder:

Love it for M+, i want to cast a second Stormkeeper Chainlightning, befor i use a spender. No Problem anymore.

Ele is not in the super bad spot, people wish they were.
10+ no problem for a elemenal.
PVP: Arena = meh, BG = top
Raid: decent, not the best not the worst. But still more than enough.
Solo: Dont see one Problem here
World PVP: Flat Landscape = Bad for me, Mountains = Easy win
19/09/2018 15:57Posted by Krogoz
I like the changes. I think the new talents are great.

Surge of Power:

This talent will show if you know what you are doing or not.


You're right, if you know what you're doing, you won't have picked it.

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