Big flaw in the m+ system.

Dungeons & Raids
So you need rio to get into higher and better groups, but you can't get it because lower groups are complete trash.. like people with 360+ pulling 8k overall dps and tanks dying in 5 seconds? I'm at this point of the game where I have enough gear for everything but I dont have enough ilvl to get insta invited and not nearly enough rio to do anything really... I'm stuck at depleting +6/7 because tanks backpedal into trash packs, pull the whole dungeon, wipe and leave... Better tanks won't join the group because we're just some "low rio" retards... It's like a neverending circle - if you play dps > your tank is trash, if you play tank > your healer and dps are trash. I've tried pushing my own key, was a fun experience.. We waited like 1 hour + for a tank only to.... backpedal into the trash packs, pull everything wipe and leave. Honestly this addon should track damage done in the dungeons and numbers of deaths... Like "this guy doesn't have the highest rio score but he consistently pulls 13-15k overall dps and has 1-2 deaths per dungeon i might wanna get him into my group"

I feel like i'm forced to roll DH, tank until i'm 370 ilvl+ and then switch to havoc (don't even mention that i should play prot... I'd rather not play the game than play prot) or simply pay for the boost? Back in the day I was boosting for gold but now things might get turned around....
The Good tanks are no longer doing random keys unless it's to boost or their friends are involved.

There might be a few around, but no one wants to do that ungrateful job for strangers that are more likely to cuss them out for one mistake than to praise them for a flawless dungeon run.

Find friends.
29/09/2018 06:55Posted by Valréan
Find friends.

I second this, i only really pug if i want to farm a certain piece.
you should look into m+ discords and find a group, it will make the experience infinitely better.

If you wanna get more score i suggest you try to just do the 3 dungeons you havent done yet (and the +2). Even if you fail the timer thats free score.
Honestly it’s not a flaw in M+ system. Mythic/m+ dungeons, nm/hc/m raids is content that is intended to be done with some groups, not RDF tool.
This is simply stuff that you want to progress and play with people you have played with like guildies or friends.
355 group can do +10 key. Will you join pug +10 with 355? Nope.
Pugs are simply unpredictable. I wouldn’t personally risk my +10 key to accept someone who has for example ilv 355. What if that person hasn’t run this dungeon at all? What if he doesn’t know how to play that spec properly? What if he doesn’t know mechanics etc. and after all those things, why would I look for 355 people when I can find 365+ easily?
As for Rio, honestly I check it just to see if that person did already this dungeon and on which difficulty. I don’t care if you have 800 rio if you haven’t done this dungeon on similar difficulty, but this is simply my point of view.
People will always demand for Pugs overkill(more ilv or stuff that is needed) just to make sure they have better chance to complete desired run.
Honestly I can feel you, but if you ask me, try to do them with friends, if you don’t have any other option(they are away or don’t want to play and you need to do that dungeon for weekly for example) do pugs.
If you are at +6 or so as you mentioned, try pushing it. Demand stuff that you can get. It’s not a shame to form a group for 15 mins. Check if everyone is experienced with that dungeon etc.
If you absolutely can’t push it to +10 or which one you desire, buy a boost(idk how much gold people request for it). Destroy your key while doing it, you will have your +9 key, at the end of week you will also grab +9 key and start making your groups with those.
If someone asks me, buying boosts is kinda stupid and unnecessary, but okay.
I recently switched to DPS on my mage from my guardian because, as someone already mentioned, tanking is a thankless job. There is an expectation that you perform perfectly, and when you don't you get berated. Whereas if DPS play perfectly, they get praised, everyone sees them topping the charts, if they screw up, who cares it's just a DPS.

But when you have no option but to pug as DPS (super late at night), it's a little painful. It's never taken me over an hour in all fairness, but I can't get into anything above a +2 with my 342 ilvl on my mage - even though I managed to clear siege +5 with little problems (didn't beat the timer though).

Best thing is to get do your own keystone and try to progress with that but it's really easy to get caught in the trap of applying to groups endlessly and AFK running around cities.
Well i know how it feels, right now Im also in that vacuum. So guess what i do, i just keep on trying to join groups to keys i havent done yet on this char. So if i just keep bashing my head in +2/3's i eventually can get the 4/5s. It's not fun and probably useless most of the time. But complaining about it wont just make it go away, It was the same in Legion and it's not a mystery it keeps on now.

The average human do believe in some form of meritocracy afterall. Some are fine with just raw Ilvl, others want achivements and now we have the hype. Given the demands on individual players this expansion it becomes even more prevalent. From a healers PoV Id rather take 7k dps with a interupt binded then a 10k dps who dont care about such shizz. Which might simply mean I'm more of the types since then Ilvl don't matter much.

Being a healer(i only play healer specs) also means I got to take the blame for everything, even when tanks blow up in motherlode cause they stand in bombs or when i end up, controlled with numerous CC's that are interuptable... like when you sit 5.5 sec silenced in handcuffs in Tol Dagor or get frozen for 5 secs by ice spritzer in motherlode, chain silenced in Manor etc. Heck I even sat In a thorn vs the tree dude once just watching the tank die since people didnt free me... and i got blamed for it, someone said i was afk and got kicked(in a damn hc for that matter).

Or when tanks overpull in Manor and expect me to dispel every single buff on the enemies even the interuptable Soul fethises that cause a minion to get 5x20% more damage. To even dispel that requires 5 GCD's, which usually ain't possible if it's an overpull.

What i try to say is; As a healer Im left out to four other people doing their share of the load by interupting stuff and/or at least avoid damage circles and cleaves, while i pray no unavoidable !@#$ lands on me that requires outside aid. I could care less about if a timer is beaten by 30 seconds due to lack of dps as long as the group acctually try performing.

Ive had tons of "amazing" dps In groups, that ignores mechanics and dont do anything else then just damage(mostly AoE damage, so some dungeons now with none elite adds bolstering elites are such a bother)... they deal very good damage sometimes and it's fine if it's just one guy. But then you get a group with three of those, and it's basicly a race to kill enemies before were killed by mechanics, when it works its great but when it fails I wished i had an umbrella to shield me from the %^-*storm coming my direction.
Idk why you think that tanking is thankless job. As everyone else I’ve had amazing tanks, good tanks and bad tanks, and it’s normal.
Tank is currently hardest job to do imho since it requires a lot of experience especially if you want to push high keys. You should know pretty much type of dmg you are going to be receiving during each encounter so you can take pressure off healer.
Also thing worth mentioning is that depending on affixes you will need to adjust your route, amount of adds that you can pull, constantly keep trash % in mind and plan not to have more than 100% since it’s simply going to lose you time.
Flaming and blaming can and probably will always happen, but idk honestly why are people getting offended so much nowadays, simply ignore it.
As for dps idk why you think that he is looked at like a boss or mvp. If dps is good and tank is pretty bad there is pretty slim chance that you can finish in time since dps can’t contribute that much, or at least not the way tank can. Not to mention that there is sh1tload of dps and finding one ain’t that hard.
As for CC, some things don’t have to be interrupted, but there are some that MUST be interrupted at all costs. If those casts go through it’s totally someone’s fault. Most of interrupts should be done by dps. If they aren’t interrupting stuff, it’s obvious lack of knowledge and they are the one to blame. But, why should you even look at things that are part of your job or someone elses. If you are healer and see that some important cast will prolly go through and no one is paying attention, don’t simply watch at it, simply try to CC to cover someone else’s mistake. Try to work as a team, give your best to contribute your team. Don’t simply watch at someone’s mistakes, try to cover them up. You get nothing to write someone that he is utter trash and noob or sth similar.
As from progressing from +2 to +6 either you have enough ilv for +6 or you don’t. If you don’t have enough ilv to get into other groups, make your own. If you have guildies or friends, try pushing with them. You will be doing certainly better than with pugs.
here is the thing

mythic+ dungeon are basically made for friends and guilds, not meant for pugs, that's the fact whether you can swallow it or not

when playing with pugs not only they make a lotta mistakes but when they wipe they leave and yes say good bye to your key, but when playing with friends and guild you finish the dungeon more smoothly even if you wipe that's cool you keep on going until dungeon is finished no hard feelings

I myself don't have friends to play this game with, but from my expedience playing mythic+ with pugs, man its not worth it, i would rather stay low geared and not waste time with pugs and end up with frustration
Tanking is a thankless job... You interrupt on CD, clean up the mess when DPS body pull mobs for the fifth time in 2 minutes but you maintain aggro anyway, follow all mechanics perfectly, pop defensive CDs at optimal times. No one notices, or cares.

I've spoken to a few tank friends of mine (only like 5 of us but still) and they feel the same, and most have switched to DPS now as it's a lot more rewarding and fun. If tanking was a fun, rewarding job, then we wouldn't be queue'ing up for 30-60 mins waiting to find just one person who actually wants to play the role. If you find it fun then great, but you're definitely the minority in that case.
If you feel that dps is getting more love than tanking, play dps. Idk what’s the state at keys you are doing, but later on, trust me, you will get into way way way more groups as tank compared to dps. Finding a good dps is easy, especially later.
There is always going to be way more competition for DPS spot compared to a tank spot. Reason why there isn’t a lot of tanks, especially later on is something like this(imho).
Tank is most punishing role if someone isn’t good, and it is easy to know if the guy is good or bad. People haven’t got sh1t load of experience currently and for tank, you need to know a lot of stuff.
Routs on most of the dungeons are going to depend on affixes. Amount of mobs you are going to pull also deprnds on affixes. You should absolutely be familiar with every singe mob you encounter. In first few mins you should know with current group how many mobs you can handle not to over pull. List goes on and on.
That is honestly a lot of things you have to know and you have very big responsibility. Someone is brave enough to take that job in his hands, someone isn’t, that’s it.
Honestly it comes down to your preference. If you want to go tank, go tank, if you want dps, go dps. If you hate both, go heal. Just play whatever you like.

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