Seriously, make some entry requirements

General
To even be able to sign for mythic dungeons and beyond. You should at least be able to pass several trials of how to interrupt, how to CC, how to DPS before you're allowed to sign up to any mythics or beyond. It's a joke when you get people who have 20-30 ilvls higher than you pulling half your dps and ruining your key because they can't interrupt, can't cc, can't do damage.
Is this another raider io thread in disquise ?
29/09/2018 23:18Posted by Stormwithin
Is this another raider io thread in disquise ?


Lmao, no, people who have high score on raider.io fails these things even.

Case in point, teamed with someone that has high score in timewalkign now, he's the tank. We've wiped 6 times before the first boss because he pulls like an idiot.
I've heard worse ideas on the forum, but that's not exactly a high bar. In general I think there's a serious player training problem in wow. It's so easy for you to level a character from 1-120 and not have a clue about what a lot of the games mechanics even are.

This could have been solved with a better application of the proving grounds. As far as i know they're still in the game, but how would you learn that if you're a new player? Would you even know there are class trainers that can take you to them? Even if you were to put a player in them, it doesn't actually do any training it's just a test that you can smash your face against. It might mention something about interupting a spell, but this would likely be the first mention of the game using the term interupt, what does it mean? Why would you care?

Sadly I don't think blizzard have the stones to commit to a long term fix. You might get a quick fix like they did in WoD with heroic dungeons but this is a problem that will keep coming up.
I've heard worse ideas on the forum, but that's not exactly a high bar. In general I think there's a serious player training problem in wow. It's so easy for you to level a character from 1-120 and not have a clue about what a lot of the games mechanics even are.

This could have been solved with a better application of the proving grounds. As far as i know they're still in the game, but how would you learn that if you're a new player? Would you even know there are class trainers that can take you to them? Even if you were to put a player in them, it doesn't actually do any training it's just a test that you can smash your face against. It might mention something about interupting a spell, but this would likely be the first mention of the game using the term interupt, what does it mean? Why would you care?

Sadly I don't think blizzard have the stones to commit to a long term fix. You might get a quick fix like they did in WoD with heroic dungeons but this is a problem that will keep coming up.


i disagree - and i disagree strongly

game has 1 problem - the abundance of people who put in 10000 hours into game and expect literaly anyone to play on the same level as they do - while at the same time ignoring the facts how much better they are due to years of playing the game.

the problem is not with their skills - the problem is they dont realise how good they are . and think that anyone can reach this level. instead realising that for most of playerbase things like hc uldir or mythic +4 require crazy high skill level

well crazy high is overexageration ofc but its not something which casual joe player has or ever will have
29/09/2018 23:06Posted by Sileani
To even be able to sign for mythic dungeons and beyond. You should at least be able to pass several trials of how to interrupt, how to CC, how to DPS before you're allowed to sign up to any mythics or beyond. It's a joke when you get people who have 20-30 ilvls higher than you pulling half your dps and ruining your key because they can't interrupt, can't cc, can't do damage.


M+ score, boy.
After my last heroic I say there should be some entry requirements for those also. I was the only person interrupting in the Shrine of the Storms. Some heroics I did were horrible, people don't interrupt, don't know the mechanics and always blame the healer.
The biggest problem with Timewalking instances is that players forget they're not L120 and steam in as if they are... "This old s**t is easy - Leerooooooy...! *dead*... WTF happened?".
Umm... Timewalking.
Uhh... ooops!
You'll always get a guy that's 360 cause he got a few lucky titanforge.

The issue IMO is that there's no requirment to know these mechanics outside of M+ keys, so people don't learn them properly.

It's a shame that blizzard enables them, because playing at a decent level is very rewarding IMO.
30/09/2018 00:53Posted by Cedrad
After my last heroic I say there should be some entry requirements for those also. I was the only person interrupting in the Shrine of the Storms. Some heroics I did were horrible, people don't interrupt, don't know the mechanics and always blame the healer.
Until Blizzard grab CC by the cojones & rams it down players' throats, too many will never learn.

Some still retain some knowledge of what it's about, but we're few & far between.
29/09/2018 23:06Posted by Sileani
To even be able to sign for mythic dungeons and beyond. You should at least be able to pass several trials of how to interrupt, how to CC, how to DPS before you're allowed to sign up to any mythics or beyond. It's a joke when you get people who have 20-30 ilvls higher than you pulling half your dps and ruining your key because they can't interrupt, can't cc, can't do damage.


Then people wouldn't even be able to pug normal dungeons... EVery !@#$ing class has interupt and when I tank only I am interupting which is kinda ok on pally but not on druid
30/09/2018 00:20Posted by Lilîith
i disagree - and i disagree strongly

game has 1 problem - the abundance of people who put in 10000 hours into game and expect literaly anyone to play on the same level as they do - while at the same time ignoring the facts how much better they are due to years of playing the game.


But doesn't that support my point? Whether you've spent a lot of time in the game or not is immaterial, there are tactics that either need to be used in higher keystones just to get through the challenges or used in lower keystones to make the run nice and smooth.

30/09/2018 00:20Posted by Lilîith
the problem is not with their skills - the problem is they dont realise how good they are . and think that anyone can reach this level. instead realising that for most of playerbase things like hc uldir or mythic +4 require crazy high skill level

well crazy high is overexageration ofc but its not something which casual joe player has or ever will have


I wasn't talking the finer points of planning your cooldown use for maximum effect or even abusing a spell like death grip to nullify half of a dungeons mechanics (god i miss having death grip), i mean more simple things like using your CC, not breaking CC, interupting enemy spellcasts and just being aware of your positioning so that you don't pull a bunch of mobs.

The game teaches none of this until the end game and that's the point where it hits them like an amorous freight train that just doesn't take no for an answer. Perhaps a more gradual approach to this would benefit players, along with some in-game resources so you aren't stuck with word of mouth in a game where most players don't use the integrated voice communication feature.
Aside from CC not being forced home within the game, there's two words that stop players from using CC abilities...

Damage meters.
I am going to be that guy:

So why arent you teaching them?
Because there in a pug?
Dont do imporant stuff with a pug.
I thought everyone knew that.

That said:
I think it would be a good idea if blizzard added a special training room in the capitals where players can learn from npc trainers.
You know like class trails do now execpt accauly teaching more advance stuff like:
If you see an npc cast a healing spell use <insert class interupt here> to stop them from healing.
How agro works, etc.
By making these instance's players could train on there own.
Make it a quest they get to encourge players to do it atleast once's.

Ofcourse the downside would be even less social contact.
30/09/2018 01:29Posted by Malaficus
So why arent you teaching them?


Not my job to teach people how to play. They should be barred from content if they don't know how to play.
Knowing how to play is one thing, knowing how to play well is another.
There's a game called Othello (some may know it as Reversi) that had the motto;

Minutes to learn, a lifetime to master.

... with some WoW players, said 'mastery' is a too dim and distant goal, albeit one that sadly shouldn't be.

EDIT:
Proving Grounds still exists, but it only serves as "a test to be completed" & the lessons taught are immediately allowed to be forgotten.
I remember back in WoD when you needed to complete silver proving grounds to be able to queue for random heroic, all the people crying on the forums because they couldn't do it.
I still wonder how was it possible to fail silver. You licterally had to be afk to fail that.
30/09/2018 01:40Posted by Sandor
I still wonder how was it possible to fail silver. You licterally had to be afk to fail that.
Bad design, is how... when in the real game was the last time a melee mob stood there and waited for you to go to it, to kill it? For as long as I can remember, if I moved, melee mobs followed me, they didn't let me run away...
The wast majority of wow players is absurdly terrible at the game. so blizzard has to accomodate them with easy mode content.
[08:09:53 PM] [Party] [censored tank name]: i pulling 2 pack

Proceeds to pull 4 packs and wiping us. How do you play tank in mythic and beyond and not know you can't just run into a pack to pull it when several packs are nearby without pulling them too?

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