8.1 Spoilers: Lost Honor cinematic

Argent Dawn
Prev 1 4 5 6 11 Next
So this cinematic was Anduin realizing that people die when they are killed and Saurfang admitting to wanting a Horde made up of only orcs, killing babies so he can be sad.
Well it is nice to see that the alliance is suffering great losses if they will soon need to enlist farmers from stormwind, to me the cinematic is outright seeing that the alliance wants Saurfang to start a rebellion.
Sadly the difference between SoO and SoO2 will be that Vol'Jin started a rebellion because of his attempted murder and the way Garrosh was going, now Saurfang will start the rebellion because Anduin encouraged him to
Don't really understand people who thing Saurfang is being twofaced by rallying for the siege of Lordaeron only to betray by the end of it. The cinematic when the siege begins was before Sylvanas blighted and raised her own troops, and his betrayal was after it. Makes perfect sense for that to have pushed him over the edge. Certainly did the same to my character.
I love it and it fits the story progression and character.

Sylvanas (like always) leads the Horde into a path they never wanted and liked (Forsaken always been looked down due to their ways, but still respected allies) and it makes sense now that Sylvanas openly goes down this dark path that the Horde begin to question who they truly are.

My orc characters hunger for glory in the battle but like Saurfang begin to question if this is truly the best way to obtain it under Sylvanas' leadership.
I think the underlying context here is not that, Saurfang is now a blueboi but rather that he, has gone through the typical character development like almost every other lore character has, that blizzard has decreed that there is no faction distinguishment and blue/red are the same faction vs the ebil void/scourge/deathwing/legion etc etc.

We have seen this in Anduin, Velen, Jaina, Thrall, Malfurion, Eitrigg, Tirion and probably a bunch others I forget on the top of my head, it's just another mark in the endless checklist of WoW writers not properly developing their characters.

And from this lens, we can understand that this isn't a faction war, never was and was always written as a good vs evil conflict, it all becomes much easier then imho.
Varok Saurfang is a well liked and well developed character because sometimes he says things like ”I feel bad about killing children”
Let's all boycot this poor storytelling.

Down with Sylvanas. Down with Saurfang.

All hail Warchief Zeep.
03/11/2018 11:51Posted by Jalbert
Varok Saurfang is a well liked and well developed character because sometimes he says things like ”I feel bad about killing children”


Salt aside, yes. Because there's a whole lot of casual mass killing in the setting, and showing an emotion about that makes him relatable. Even if it's done in the obvious and unsubtle style that Blizz takes with its storytelling.
03/11/2018 12:21Posted by Zeepkist
Let's all boycot this poor storytelling.

Down with Sylvanas. Down with Saurfang.

All hail Warchief Zeep.


I genuinely believe this may come to be as our characters are now generals of our factions, leaders of our class halls and hangs out with the current faction leaders on a regular basis. Why not warchief as the next step?
03/11/2018 12:26Posted by Langsley
03/11/2018 12:21Posted by Zeepkist
Let's all boycot this poor storytelling.

Down with Sylvanas. Down with Saurfang.

All hail Warchief Zeep.


I genuinely believe this may come to be as our characters are now generals of our factions, leaders of our class halls and hangs out with the current faction leaders on a regular basis. Why not warchief as the next step?


"Hail warchief/high king! We serve you without question! Now go kill some bears and pick some apples! For the Horde/Alliance!
03/11/2018 13:38Posted by Uruk
03/11/2018 12:26Posted by Langsley
...

I genuinely believe this may come to be as our characters are now generals of our factions, leaders of our class halls and hangs out with the current faction leaders on a regular basis. Why not warchief as the next step?


"Hail warchief/high king! We serve you without question! Now go kill some bears and pick some apples! For the Horde/Alliance!


Gon' be gettin som bear arses
The next expansion will be Warcraft 4 in the WoW engine.
We will be the Warchief and command our forces from a first person view and interact in battles and quests.
The Garrison and stuff were the test-bed for this, so were the Warfronts.
03/11/2018 13:54Posted by Vilesun
The next expansion will be Warcraft 4 in the WoW engine.
We will be the Warchief and command our forces from a first person view and interact in battles and quests.
The Garrison and stuff were the test-bed for this, so were the Warfronts.


The upcoming Warcraft 3 Reforged has also been said to be pitching the concept of such a game.
03/11/2018 13:54Posted by Vilesun
The Garrison and stuff were the test-bed for this, so were the Warfronts.


If Warfronts are the future of WoW I won't be playing WoW much longer.

On topic:

Anyone siding with Saurfang doesn't belong in the Horde. He's literally working with the enemy to bring his Warchief down. This isn't honour. This is treachery. Oathbreaking. Justify it how you like by saying hurr durr Sylvanas is bad but it doesn't change what Saurfang has become: a snivelling, whining, treasonous coward.

Coulda killed, Anduin, ended the war, and then dealt with Sylvanas like a real orc - or at least die trying.

I dont agree with this at all. People are confused as tho why The Old Soldier cinematic was released, if Saurfang was going to betray the Horde. The first cinematic happens before Sylvanas raised both her own people and enemies as the undead, he didnt know what she really was. Just like someone said, this is character progression, a solid one in my opinion. Yes, he betrays his Warchief and those that follow her, but he stays true to himself and the rest of the Horde, because it is clear there are tons of members of the Horde that feel and think the way Saurfang does. I cant understand the hate he gets. I mean, if you vote and support for someone to be your leader, you are supposed to follow him no matter what? Even if they become the worst possible villian, does things against your own believes? This is what he did, and i think he should be praised for it.
03/11/2018 14:14Posted by Hallwell
I mean, if you vote and support for someone to be your leader, you are supposed to follow him no matter what? Even if they become the worst possible villian, does things against your own believes?


The Horde isn't a democracy and no one "voted" for Sylvanas.



Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde.

I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.

From this moment until the end of days I live and die - For the Horde!


Every single member of the Horde swears this sacred oath. By betraying his Warchief and directly working for her enemies he's forsaking his honour.
03/11/2018 14:14Posted by Hallwell
I mean, if you vote and support for someone to be your leader, you are supposed to follow him no matter what? Even if they become the worst possible villian, does things against your own believes?


The Horde isn't a democracy and no one "voted" for Sylvanas.



Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde.

I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.

From this moment until the end of days I live and die - For the Horde!


Every single member of the Horde swears this sacred oath. By betraying his Warchief and directly working for her enemies he's forsaking his honour.


By that logic we were all honorless traitors when we went against Garrosh in SoO.
Tbh just smash up the horde so i dont have to rp being part of this joke any more. >:C
03/11/2018 14:23Posted by Uruk
By that logic we were all honorless traitors when we went against Garrosh in SoO.


Garrosh released people from their oaths when he said this:

They are no longer part of my Horde!


Anyone rebelling before this is, indeed, an honourless traitor. The honourable thing to do is what Nazgrim did, and serve the Warchief even though you know they're not morally correct.

I'm reminded of the final scene of 13 Assassins where the retainer to the Shogun's heir does something similar. The boy is evil, downright evil, and will destroy their country but the retainer is honourbound to protect him.
03/11/2018 14:14Posted by Hallwell
I mean, if you vote and support for someone to be your leader, you are supposed to follow him no matter what? Even if they become the worst possible villian, does things against your own believes?


The Horde isn't a democracy and no one "voted" for Sylvanas.



Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde.

I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.

From this moment until the end of days I live and die - For the Horde!


Every single member of the Horde swears this sacred oath. By betraying his Warchief and directly working for her enemies he's forsaking his honour.

The vote was a mere example. Yeah, they follow this oath, but I think only a sheep follows its leader no matter what. There are moments when breaking an oath can be justified

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum