Just give us free instant level 120s already

General
The current wow leveling system serves absolutely no purpose at all, and reducing the exp needed to level up isn't the solution. A good RPG leveling system typically does 3 things:

1. Story progression.
2. Character progression.
3. Teaches game mechanics.

Wow's leveling system does none of this. Story progression is a complete mess right now. We start off in the Cataclysm era through levels 1-60. Then we go back in time to either TBC or wrath depending on which zones you choose from 60-80. After that we jump forward in time either to Cataclysm or MoP for levels 80-90. Then it gets even more confusing because we jump into the alternate time line in WoD which you wouldn't understand unless you did the seige of orgrammar raid AND read the war crimes novel. After that we go through legion and finally get to BFA which doesn't make sense unless you have done the tomb of sergeras and antorus raids.

Good luck following any of that as a new player....

So how about character progression? It's hard to see any since everything scales up with you and there is so much inconsistency between the level brackets that the gear you wear makes no difference at all. Killing mobs in WoD feels like you are slamming your head against a brick wall, but then you go to the legion zones and you suddenly turn into a god. The change in power is so abrupt that you find it hard to tell what you should be able to do with your character.

And finally we come to learning the game mechanics....yeah that doesn't happen either. I actually tested this on my shaman. I boosted it to 110 and then specced enhancement, something I have never played before. I got some random talent build off a website, slapped some spells onto my bars and just pressed random buttons to kill stuff. I got to level 120 without learning anything about my spec or what any of my abilities did.

Increasing the leveling speed isn't going to fix these issues, and in fact might just make them worse. Given how pointless the leveling system is, I say get rid of it entirely and start again from scratch.
No, stop trying to take things away from an MMO that is a staple to.. MMOs.

You either level or you don't,

14/11/2018 05:48Posted by Midnightfist

And finally we come to learning the game mechanics....yeah that doesn't happen either. I actually tested this on my shaman. I boosted it to 110 and then specced enhancement, something I have never played before. I got some random talent build off a website, slapped some spells onto my bars and just pressed random buttons to kill stuff. I got to level 120 without learning anything about my spec or what any of my abilities did.


Because you boosted it, hence you would not know what ability synergizes with another, how to properly do your cooldowns, what your utility does. So.. Boosting literally teaches you nothing about that unlike leveling where you most likely will use your abilities.

And the level from 1-110 is far different than 110-120 because in 1-110 you will actually get new spells, so you would want to use them. 110-120 is just azerite traits, huge difference
You get a free lvl 110, that's more than enough. I would prefer newbies started at lvl 1 as they used to. Suppose most would quit if that was the case.

I agree the storyline is completely messed up and confusing for new players. Something needs to be done about the learning curve as well, but starting at 120 isn't the solution.
Why gear up? Give us ilvl 400 already.
Op. Levelling is boring like hell but you can run something different from the same m+ or wq.
14/11/2018 06:43Posted by Tèsla
Why gear up? Give us ilvl 400 already.
Op. Levelling is boring like hell but you can run something different from the same m+ or wq.


And let us start with world first achievment. Hell, Just give us all achievments and mounts and pets.
Zidormi, Nidormi or whatever that dragon is called should be a NPC is Sw/Org with a short in-game cinematic recapping the story so far for new players.
Perhaps even with a voiceline to go along.

I have played since vanilla, and im Even a Little confused on what went down. Especislly during WOD.

Timey-wimey
maybe ask for replacing everything with a big red button labeled "win"?
Yep, leveling is a mess and the story is horribly confused, but the solution is making leveling challenging and a learning process again, rather then just let anyone create an army of max level alts in few minutes.
They can't keep on adding 10 lvls with every expansion. At some point they have to start characters off around at least halfway. Make it a players choice.

Maybe the lvl 100 class tryout is already a pre to that.
14/11/2018 07:48Posted by Gratna
14/11/2018 06:43Posted by Tèsla
Why gear up? Give us ilvl 400 already.
Op. Levelling is boring like hell but you can run something different from the same m+ or wq.


And let us start with world first achievment. Hell, Just give us all achievments and mounts and pets.

Hell, just give me the "You can quit WoW now! Congratulations for beating WoW!" ticket.
At this point I actually don't care what Activision Blizzard do to this game, the damage is already done anyway.
To be fair, blizz are very well known for freebies.
First spend many hours with confused and unhappy new players who boosted and are now completely lost. I have. Then you can talk about removing levelling ... except you won't.

I'll agree that the current levelling is inexcusably bad when it comes to teaching people, new or old, how to play a class.

But for new players, learning how to play a class is the least of what they learn their first time through. Much of the stuff we take for granted is not intuitive or clear to beginners. Vendors, repairs, XP and rested, geography, travel, UI, queues, stats, armour types, healing, portals, weapon types, rares, instances, flasks, flight masters, storage, mail, food and drink, daily and weekly systems, elites, potions, maps, mounts, professions, attunements, specs, bars, the trinity, rewards, macros, aggro radius, buffs, drops, auctions - all of this is artificial, and has to be learned. Above all, that first levelling gives a new player time to absorb a lot of this. Not enough, in many cases, but enough to have basic function.

So my first reaction is HELL, NO! We DO NOT take this opportunity to learn away from new people.

You went wrong in your premise. Those are not the three things levelling does. For new players, there is a more important fourth one: Teach the systems of the game world. Just as you and I have learned to read, and don't have to puzzle over every word of these posts, this is all transparent to us. But imagine someone who speaks no English at all, and has to work through it word by word with a dictionary. New players need to achieve fluency in the language of the game.

(As an interesting aside, I've met with a couple of "new" people who came to WoW from having lots of experience in FFXIV. These people are already fluent in game systems. They just need a handy translation phrasebook, so they can know "Oh, that's how they do it in WoW", with no need to explain what the "it" is. So although they are new to WoW, they are not "new players" in the same sense. They already speak MMORPG-ese, just a different dialect.)

OK, with that out of the way, let's get on to your other three points

1. Story progression: I think we all agree that it's a timey-wimey mess. I've tried explaining the big story; it's a real headache. And I think Fòrum's idea of having a Bronze Dragon, or a Lorewaker, available to tell the story is a good one, though it would need a LOT of work.

I would differ with you on the emphasis, though, for a new leveller. SO much is coming at them from so many angles, that it's hard for them even to squint at the Big Picture. They do have local stories and characters to relate to, and for a lot of them, for a lot of the time, that is enough.

Warcraft is a whole big world, with a timeline that stretches across many continents and kingdoms, and through tens of thousands of years of history. It's not a small, linear, narrative that you play in a defined progression from A to Z, and then you have understood it all. And that's a strength.

What new players do struggle with, though, is the capping story of each expansion. What was actually going on in Hellfire Citadel in Outland? They probably won't see the Blood Furnace, and even if they do, they will be rushed through it so fast it becomes a blur, with no time to guess at what's going on - and they surely won't see Magtheridon's Lair. What was the reason for the huge pumps in Zangarmarsh? What was Illidan (and was it Gorefiend?) doing in Shadowmoon Valley? The Lich King taunted you all the way through Northrend - what happened to him when you left for Mount Hyjal? There's no closure there.

The Big Story of each expansion is in the end-game, and levelling skips the end-game of each expansion completely. I can tell newcomers that they can go back and solo it all at max level, but that's not much comfort; by max level, their brains are scrambled by all the stories, and they have lost the thread.

Again, a Bronze Dragon or Lorewalker could tell the story, but honestly that's a lot to sit through passively. Try chaining Nobbel videos, and you'll see what I mean. :P Some kind of narrated solo playthrough would be amazing! but a lot of work.

Anyway, while I somewhat see your point about story progression, I think you're oversimplifying. I wouldn't like to see the story reduced to a linear 50-page booklet. It's good that there are tendrils of the story left to explore. And it's not an easy fix.

2. Character progression: I can't defend what levelling is now, after scaling, with all progression removed. Character power progression is all but removed when levelling, character ability progression has been plucked like a chicken, and I never really felt there was much character progression at max level anyway, so yeah, levelling provides very little character progression.

3. Teaches game mechanics - by which you mean class mechanics; I think I've explained how there are many more game mechanics outside rotation. Yeah, levelling doesn't teach you to optimise your gameplay. I don't think it ever did. For new players, it does provide some basics, enough for basic survival in the world for the most part. For experienced players, that's mostly irrelevant. A few hours at the dummies and looking up Icy-Veins and the Discord, a few WQ and/or random dungeons and/or BGs is what gets them on the road.
14/11/2018 07:52Posted by Fòrum
Zidormi, Nidormi or whatever that dragon is called should be a NPC is Sw/Org with a short in-game cinematic recapping the story so far for new players.
Perhaps even with a voiceline to go along.

I have played since vanilla, and im Even a Little confused on what went down. Especislly during WOD.

Timey-wimey


I've played on and off since Vanilla and returned briefly for Legion and BfA - I never really played WoD or Cata and I have had a hell of a time trying to piece together the various different plot threads that have gathered over the years. I mostly ignore the story now which is such a shame. It definitely needs a scene setting plotline or questline to draw it all together otherwise it is such a confusing mess. I played a little at the start of Legion and then came back about a month before BfA release - imagine my surprise then to find I was suddenly zooming around on a giant laser shooting spaceship above an alien planet...
14/11/2018 08:52Posted by Aesgar
imagine my surprise then to find I was suddenly zooming around on a giant laser shooting spaceship above an alien planet...

If you don't read quest texts then you've got no one else to blame but you. You can't even access the ship without going through the scenario with Velen where its origins and mission are explained.
No.
14/11/2018 06:24Posted by Kâî
No, stop trying to take things away from an MMO that is a staple to.. MMOs.

You either level or you don't,

14/11/2018 05:48Posted by Midnightfist

And finally we come to learning the game mechanics....yeah that doesn't happen either. I actually tested this on my shaman. I boosted it to 110 and then specced enhancement, something I have never played before. I got some random talent build off a website, slapped some spells onto my bars and just pressed random buttons to kill stuff. I got to level 120 without learning anything about my spec or what any of my abilities did.


Because you boosted it, hence you would not know what ability synergizes with another, how to properly do your cooldowns, what your utility does. So.. Boosting literally teaches you nothing about that unlike leveling where you most likely will use your abilities.

And the level from 1-110 is far different than 110-120 because in 1-110 you will actually get new spells, so you would want to use them. 110-120 is just azerite traits, huge difference


So just because something is a staple to an mmorpg automatically means it should always be there, even when it has no purpose? And no, the only difference between 1-110 and 110-120 is the length of time it takes. If I wanted to I could probably level up a new character only using 2-3 spells and no understanding of what the spec is supposed to do. Maybe once the exp nerf comes in I will just to prove a point, but right now I honestly can't be bothered.

Also I'm not saying get rid of leveling entirely forever. My point is that their bandaid fixes to the leveling (zone scaling and reducing the exp) are about as effective as a solution as getting rid of the leveling system itself.

The leveling system needs a complete overhaul, not a bandaid fix. Hopefully Blizzard knows this and are working on it, but as others have said, it will take a lot of work, probably as much as an entire new expansion for it to be done right.
14/11/2018 05:48Posted by Midnightfist
The current wow leveling system serves absolutely no purpose at all


To you. I really don't know why people keep saying this, knowing full well that a lot of people enjoy levelling characters.

I'm not saying the state of levelling is great right now, but it is better then no levelling.

Also, how do you plan on dealing with these issues:

1) FOTM rerolling - just check which class and spec is doing the best job and reroll. This would happen and kill any idea of class variety.

2) Server balance - bad server? Oh, just reroll on a 'better' one. High pop servers instantly crash, low pop servers disappear in a puff of smoke.

3) Lockout farming - if i can create instant 120's I can use them to farm lockouts for things like mounts.

Until you have proper answers, you need to remember that your 'solution' is just another set of problems in disguise.

The better answer is to work on levelling until it feels good, not to abandon it.
I love levelling. I loved it always more than the endgame. And I despise instant maxlvl boosts. But this guy is right. Levelling makes no sense now:
- you can twist the story any way you want
- you do not have any feeling of growing more powerful, because the world grows with you. You actually become weaker, if you do not use hierlooms. With or without them, there is no challenge, it just takes longer to kill a mob.
- professions are now even more irrelevant as they were before. You should move them to Feats of Strenght now, because there is no reason, why anybody should be bothered to level them.

And looking at what is awaiting us at the end of the road (BfA endgame), there is no motivation in finishing the race at all.

Only benefit is that you do not get all skills at once, so you learn them.
I do agree about story... Feels really weird as of now, especially for Allied races which, aside maybe for maghar and dark irons, can't really be justified to exist in, for instance, tlk. Pandas have that problem too if you think about it, but it's less noticeable.
I don't know, maybe we could just go from base game to last expansion and then if you want you could access the other expansions optionally, through a time travel thing or by reading books of history or something like that (?).

Don't know really. Leveling should still be a thing, but maybe could that be squeezed too? Like, instead of giving +40% exp rate, squeeze levels and slightly increase the exp required to level up (so in the end you'd have like 80 levels but with the same amount of exp needed for, to say, actual level 100?)
Yes give me even less to do I can't wait for this to be in place, this way I can add leveling to the other list of things I'm actively avoiding to do because I see no point in it.

- Conquest progression because need to fill it 5 more times before I get something I need
- World quests
- Warfronts beyond the initial quest
- Island expeditions
- wartable missions
and if this becomes true also
- leveling

anyone got anything else we don't need to do? if we keep going like this we may even reach the point where we don't even have to play the game.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum