Just give us free instant level 120s already

General
14/11/2018 09:38Posted by Bedezee


1) FOTM rerolling - just check which class and spec is doing the best job and reroll. This would happen and kill any idea of class variety.


Which isn't really a problem at all. I seriously don't get the vendetta some people have against FOTM classes/specs, everyone is free to play any class/spec they prefer.

14/11/2018 09:38Posted by Bedezee


2) Server balance - bad server? Oh, just reroll on a 'better' one. High pop servers instantly crash, low pop servers disappear in a puff of smoke.


Again, that's a matter of preference. It's completely understandable that players on low pop realms might want to switch to a high pop realms for different reasons such as more chances of finding a guild to their liking, having a more active AH etc.

I'd rather have 100 realms with mid-high population than 500 realms with 10 of them being high pop and the rest being either low pop or flat out dead realms.

14/11/2018 09:38Posted by Bedezee


3) Lockout farming - if i can create instant 120's I can use them to farm lockouts for things like mounts.


Except they've already prevented that. Boosted characters cannot enter any old instances for a 24 hours. Actually, the same rule even applies to DHs as well.
I agree, in principle. "Leveling" is a staple of an mmo, circa 2006.

I ALREADY leveled many toon 1-80+, subsequently 110+.

But as soon as:
1. You got a free boost to previous expansions max level, and only "leveling" requirement is ten TOKEN levels for new max.
2. Invasions before Legion, where you could level 1-100 in a couple hours.
3. Legion invasions, where you could level 100-110 in 4-5 hours, or less.
4. You can buy boosts

Does anyone think leveling is still really a staple of an mmo?? Blizzard sure doesn't. And, you are a fool if you think they do.

Now, I can't comment how leveling is now, with scaling because I refuse to do any real leveling for all the reasons already mentioned. But, I am under no illusion that leveling is anything but a nuisance. It does, and provides nothing of value.
wow isa not anymore mmorpg
its is moba
I also support the idea that ALL leveling should be optional. If you want max level on any toon, you just press the button "max me now."

If you don't like that idea, we can add a button for you: "bend me over leveling." Heirlooms deleted from account, scaling factor multiplied by double, more xp required per level, and each death removes 5 levels. You get an achievement, "I got bent" when reach max level.
They can't keep on adding 10 lvls with every expansion. At some point they have to start characters off around at least halfway. Make it a players choice.

Maybe the lvl 100 class tryout is already a pre to that.


why not ? each of last 3 expansions they given any player a very fast catch up mechanic in form of instant max level (from previous expansion )

so by now anyone should use it on at least 3 toons (1x90 1x100 1x110) - which gives you at minimum 3 toons which skipped most of leveling . if you played game.

i strongly feel that people who want leveling nerfed so much are simply jealous of altoholics for putting that much effort into leveling over past 14 years.

that said im glad they are reverting leveling changes they made in 7.3.5 because leveling post changes was abomination because of how slow it was.

now we are back to original leveling speeds from past few expansions so iits gonna be ok .
I also support the idea that ALL leveling should be optional. If you want max level on any toon, you just press the button "max me now."

If you don't like that idea, we can add a button for you: "bend me over leveling." Heirlooms deleted from account, scaling factor multiplied by double, more xp required per level, and each death removes 5 levels. You get an achievement, "I got bent" when reach max level.


but you have this button . it costs like 60 euro

you can use it anytime you want.
Quests and lvlup are a part of this game. They're already reducing the required XP with the upcoming patch. Giving free 120's to people isn't necessary. I would definitely appreciate it for sure, but I neither expect nor demand it.
Which isn't really a problem at all.


For you. A lot of people think you should play a class because you chose it, not simply because it happens to be the best that week. I don't want to log on and see that everyone is a DH or whatever, thanks.

Again, that's a matter of preference.


No, its a matter of logistics. Too many on one realm, it lags. Too few on another, you are forced to move or live in isolation. Server stability is important, particularly for people that want to build up guilds or community events.

14/11/2018 10:28Posted by Savoren
Except they've already prevented that. B


OP isn't suggesting you get more boosts, he is suggesting you just get max lvl instantly. If that was the case, why would they be locked out.
Also, people still use boosted characters for all sorts of marginal stuff. Its a bad idea all around.
And finally we come to learning the game mechanics....yeah that doesn't happen either. I actually tested this on my shaman. I boosted it to 110 and then specced enhancement, something I have never played before. I got some random talent build off a website, slapped some spells onto my bars and just pressed random buttons to kill stuff. I got to level 120 without learning anything about my spec or what any of my abilities did.


I’ve leveled 15-20 toons from lvl 1-110 and I only do this to know my class.. I boosted a hunter with my free boost and NEVER played him because I had no idea how to.

Leveling lets you learn how your toon works.
14/11/2018 11:57Posted by Dappysham
And finally we come to learning the game mechanics....yeah that doesn't happen either. I actually tested this on my shaman. I boosted it to 110 and then specced enhancement, something I have never played before. I got some random talent build off a website, slapped some spells onto my bars and just pressed random buttons to kill stuff. I got to level 120 without learning anything about my spec or what any of my abilities did.


I’ve leveled 15-20 toons from lvl 1-110 and I only do this to know my class.. I boosted a hunter with my free boost and NEVER played him because I had no idea how to.

Leveling lets you learn how your toon works.


So i gif you choices: 1 hour on dummy oorrrrrrrr
here it comes
tens of hours of leveling with not even the full kit the full time

What did you choose?

Hmmmmmmmm

yes yes yes
I've always felt that the biggest timeline issue was with Cataclysm. Even if you ignore the 80-90 content, it just feels weird that the world is in a perpetual state of recent disaster. Raging elementals, destroyed towns etc.. That stuff needs to be phased out after completing a questline/zone.
14/11/2018 08:49Posted by Gráinne
First spend many hours with confused and unhappy new players who boosted and are now completely lost. I have. Then you can talk about removing levelling ... except you won't.

I'll agree that the current levelling is inexcusably bad when it comes to teaching people, new or old, how to play a class.

But for new players, learning how to play a class is the least of what they learn their first time through. Much of the stuff we take for granted is not intuitive or clear to beginners. Vendors, repairs, XP and rested, geography, travel, UI, queues, stats, armour types, healing, portals, weapon types, rares, instances, flasks, flight masters, storage, mail, food and drink, daily and weekly systems, elites, potions, maps, mounts, professions, attunements, specs, bars, the trinity, rewards, macros, aggro radius, buffs, drops, auctions - all of this is artificial, and has to be learned. Above all, that first levelling gives a new player time to absorb a lot of this. Not enough, in many cases, but enough to have basic function.

So my first reaction is HELL, NO! We DO NOT take this opportunity to learn away from new people.

You went wrong in your premise. Those are not the three things levelling does. For new players, there is a more important fourth one: Teach the systems of the game world. Just as you and I have learned to read, and don't have to puzzle over every word of these posts, this is all transparent to us. But imagine someone who speaks no English at all, and has to work through it word by word with a dictionary. New players need to achieve fluency in the language of the game.

(As an interesting aside, I've met with a couple of "new" people who came to WoW from having lots of experience in FFXIV. These people are already fluent in game systems. They just need a handy translation phrasebook, so they can know "Oh, that's how they do it in WoW", with no need to explain what the "it" is. So although they are new to WoW, they are not "new players" in the same sense. They already speak MMORPG-ese, just a different dialect.)

OK, with that out of the way, let's get on to your other three points

1. Story progression: I think we all agree that it's a timey-wimey mess. I've tried explaining the big story; it's a real headache. And I think Fòrum's idea of having a Bronze Dragon, or a Lorewaker, available to tell the story is a good one, though it would need a LOT of work.

I would differ with you on the emphasis, though, for a new leveller. SO much is coming at them from so many angles, that it's hard for them even to squint at the Big Picture. They do have local stories and characters to relate to, and for a lot of them, for a lot of the time, that is enough.

Warcraft is a whole big world, with a timeline that stretches across many continents and kingdoms, and through tens of thousands of years of history. It's not a small, linear, narrative that you play in a defined progression from A to Z, and then you have understood it all. And that's a strength.

What new players do struggle with, though, is the capping story of each expansion. What was actually going on in Hellfire Citadel in Outland? They probably won't see the Blood Furnace, and even if they do, they will be rushed through it so fast it becomes a blur, with no time to guess at what's going on - and they surely won't see Magtheridon's Lair. What was the reason for the huge pumps in Zangarmarsh? What was Illidan (and was it Gorefiend?) doing in Shadowmoon Valley? The Lich King taunted you all the way through Northrend - what happened to him when you left for Mount Hyjal? There's no closure there.

The Big Story of each expansion is in the end-game, and levelling skips the end-game of each expansion completely. I can tell newcomers that they can go back and solo it all at max level, but that's not much comfort; by max level, their brains are scrambled by all the stories, and they have lost the thread.

Again, a Bronze Dragon or Lorewalker could tell the story, but honestly that's a lot to sit through passively. Try chaining Nobbel videos, and you'll see what I mean. :P Some kind of narrated solo playthrough would be amazing! but a lot of work.

Anyway, while I somewhat see your point about story progression, I think you're oversimplifying. I wouldn't like to see the story reduced to a linear 50-page booklet. It's good that there are tendrils of the story left to explore. And it's not an easy fix.

2. Character progression: I can't defend what levelling is now, after scaling, with all progression removed. Character power progression is all but removed when levelling, character ability progression has been plucked like a chicken, and I never really felt there was much character progression at max level anyway, so yeah, levelling provides very little character progression.

3. Teaches game mechanics - by which you mean class mechanics; I think I've explained how there are many more game mechanics outside rotation. Yeah, levelling doesn't teach you to optimise your gameplay. I don't think it ever did. For new players, it does provide some basics, enough for basic survival in the world for the most part. For experienced players, that's mostly irrelevant. A few hours at the dummies and looking up Icy-Veins and the Discord, a few WQ and/or random dungeons and/or BGs is what gets them on the road.


A short "movie" at the end of each Xpac if you decide to move on? Where you are prompted to either watch it or not? That could fill the gaps.
14/11/2018 12:05Posted by Alfarn
I've always felt that the biggest timeline issue was with Cataclysm. Even if you ignore the 80-90 content, it just feels weird that the world is in a perpetual state of recent disaster. Raging elementals, destroyed towns etc.. That stuff needs to be phased out after completing a questline/zone.

Phasing is a problem, though. A big problem.

Phasing means people can't see each other, can't group. Like sharding, but more concentrated. Trying to fly a friend on a lowbie alt across - is it Searing Gorge? - is hilarious (assuming your friend laughts at being dead. or you laugh at him galling from a height). And I remember trying to ferry a newcomer across Jade Forest, when I had done the destruction of the statue and he hadn't. Less funny, because he didn't understand why he was dead.

Phasing needs to be used sparingly. Personally, I think it has already been overused. There are some times when the effect may be worth it, but it's never an unmixed blessing.
14/11/2018 11:34Posted by Alexima
Quests and lvlup are a part of this game. They're already reducing the required XP with the upcoming patch. Giving free 120's to people isn't necessary. I would definitely appreciate it for sure, but I neither expect nor demand it.


The problem with Blizzard reducing the exp requirements (apart from it not solving the issue in the first place) is that it completely throws off the pacing that the game is designed around. Before the world scaling came in, exp from quests was carefully calculated so that you would complete the main storyline quests in a zone and that would give you enough exp to move onto the next zone. The gear rewards reflected this, by offering you ever better gear as you progressed through a zone, usually ending with a decent weapon for the final quest in a chain.

When you increase the exp gains a lot of players aren't going to do all the quests in a zone which means they will miss out on that big reward at the end. It's almost impossible to keep your gear relevant when that happens, and you end up using a weapon that is 10-20 levels below your character level. The world scaling doesn't account for this, and classes that heavily rely on their weapon damage have a really hard time of it.
14/11/2018 12:20Posted by Midnightfist
14/11/2018 11:34Posted by Alexima
Quests and lvlup are a part of this game. They're already reducing the required XP with the upcoming patch. Giving free 120's to people isn't necessary. I would definitely appreciate it for sure, but I neither expect nor demand it.


The problem with Blizzard reducing the exp requirements (apart from it not solving the issue in the first place) is that it completely throws off the pacing that the game is designed around. Before the world scaling came in, exp from quests was carefully calculated so that you would complete the main storyline quests in a zone and that would give you enough exp to move onto the next zone. The gear rewards reflected this, by offering you ever better gear as you progressed through a zone, usually ending with a decent weapon for the final quest in a chain.

When you increase the exp gains a lot of players aren't going to do all the quests in a zone which means they will miss out on that big reward at the end. It's almost impossible to keep your gear relevant when that happens, and you end up using a weapon that is 10-20 levels below your character level. The world scaling doesn't account for this.


Wasn't the idea behind scaling to stop you out-levelling a zone? So that the reward at the end is still relevant.
14/11/2018 06:34Posted by Eulalia
You get a free lvl 110, that's more than enough. I would prefer newbies started at lvl 1 as they used to. Suppose most would quit if that was the case.

I agree the storyline is completely messed up and confusing for new players. Something needs to be done about the learning curve as well, but starting at 120 isn't the solution.


14/11/2018 10:26Posted by Sylvare
Yes give me even less to do I can't wait for this to be in place, this way I can add leveling to the other list of things I'm actively avoiding to do because I see no point in it.

- Conquest progression because need to fill it 5 more times before I get something I need
- World quests
- Warfronts beyond the initial quest
- Island expeditions
- wartable missions
and if this becomes true also
- leveling

anyone got anything else we don't need to do? if we keep going like this we may even reach the point where we don't even have to play the game.


Most people just want to log in and raid period, they don't want to have to do anything much else. That is the reality.
Before the world scaling came in, exp from quests was carefully calculated so that you would complete the main storyline quests in a zone and that would give you enough exp to move onto the next zone.


Did people actually ever level like that? I know all I did and most others I know since LFG came in was level to 15, and even then we used to do power runs for that, then into heirlooms and group finder until max level.
I get the feeling Blizzard strongly agree with you that levelling is totally pointless, as doesn’t every expansion come with a free level boost to the new content?

I know people will argue “well I don’t want to play old crap, I want to get to the new content” well tough muffins. If you’re completely new to the game you should have no other choice than to carve your way through levelling at least once, it’s a rite of passage.

What I do agree with is that levelling makes absolutely no sense as an allied race. But there is no solution to that outside of overhauling the entire quest zones, which is such a mammoth job Blizzard will never do it.
Why should I have to gear up?
Just give me 385 gear already.
I dont believe that there are so many lazy people playing wow these days.

/shoo

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum