Faction Inbalance

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Hi there,

First of all i want you to know why this is important to me.
A few years ago I started on a new server because the faction balance on my old server was no longer bearable for me. My faction was outnumbered 1:100 (not even kidding) and thus i left, with a heavy heart, four max level characters behind and started on a new, well balanced server, namely the PVP-server "Blackmoore".
I didn't want to join "Team winning", i wanted to have a nice balance between the factions.

Now i want you to have a look at the following picture: https://imgur.com/a/DwwMuYB

On the left side, you can see faction balance state in legion - pretty much 50/50, like it should be.
On the right side, however, this image shifted dramatically in BFA.
For every two alliance members there are now THREE horde players at max level.
With Warmode on, it is even worse, because as soon as people realize they are outnumbered all the time, they deactivate it and make the inbalance even bigger.

This inbalance is also self-enforcing on a server level. People don't like to be on the losing team over a long period of time and if they have the option (which most people have) they will just join the winning faction after a while (aka faction change).

Now, if you are some cool kid which is thinking "WE WON THE WAR LULZ" you have to realize that this is harmful for both sides of the fence.
  • Enemy players add to the flavor of the world. It makes it living and breathing because it adds forceful encounters with smart individuals where you have to give it your very best to survive. For someone like me it's either boring on the winning side (because it is not a challenge) or painful on the losing side (because i get outnumbered).
  • The opposing faction consists of paying customers which pay for your features and experiences as well.
  • People will faction change sometimes, yes, but a lot of them will just quit and lower the subscriber count. Maybe even to a point where Blizzard decides this game is no longer sustainable.


I don't care if you are Alliance or Horde. We are all human beings. So stand up for your fellow gamers of all factions and make your voice heard for balanced servers! We all benefit from it in the long run!
Do something before it's too late.
on my server crosserver works in a way that's for every 2 horde players on WQ there's 15 alliance ones.

Well, Tol Dagor is still in horde hands
11/10/2018 10:04Posted by Edgyjojomeme
on my server crosserver works in a way that's for every 2 horde players on WQ there's 15 alliance ones.
This is unacceptable. How can someone even consider this a "playable" state?
11/10/2018 10:01Posted by Raiev
Do something before it's too late.

But what?

I definitely think faction imbalance is WoW's biggest problem in the long term, because it just snowballs. As you say, a lot of it becomes self-enforcing and takes a turn for the worse.

And it's easy to point out a lot of reasons for what has caused this faction imbalance to exist.
And it's also easy to point out a lot of reasons why the faction imbalance may get worse.

But it's quite difficult to figure out how to reverse the process. Like what would be the incentment for 20% of the Horde players to start playing Alliance, but not more than that?

It's definitely something Blizzard has to start thinking about, because if the trend continues, it won't look pretty in the next expansion or the expansion after that.

But I don't think there are any easy solutions.
Sadly Blizzard have allowed this to snowball over the years with imbalanced horde racial, and now it seems completely messed up. Just check Wowprogress, you will see that there's about 10 alliance guilds in top 100. It all consists of horde. Reason is that for years horde had better racials which caused best guilds to switch to them, which then made more guilds follow them, and so on and so on.

I play with Warmode on, and I can say without shadow of a doubt that most of the time It's at least 3:1 or even 4:1 in horde favor. Sure, sometimes there are few more of us alliance guys, but that very rarely happens.

The most obvious solution would be to give Alliance couple of extremely OP racials that would then 'enforce' the best guilds to think about switching, smaller guilds would follow. Then, what they see some sort of balance returning, butcher the racials that they don't have much effect in PvE or PvP content.
11/10/2018 10:04Posted by Edgyjojomeme
on my server crosserver


blizzard said that with warmode we would be in somewhat of a queue realm system where it would balance the factions .

as we know, good joke.
11/10/2018 10:33Posted by Jito
11/10/2018 10:01Posted by Raiev
Do something before it's too late.

But what?

For War Mode it might actually be quite simple. Give a bigger incentive to the underrepresented faction. Blizzard has done this for a long time for Battlegrounds so why this wasn't implemented in the first place puzzles me.

As an example:
Say there are currently 10 Alliance players and 2 Horde player with Warmode on.
Alliance players would get 10% bonus on XP/Azerite/<insert other incentive here>.
Because the horde players are hugely outnumbered they would be compensated by a 50% bonus instead.
If the ratio was 2 Alliance and 5 Horde players the bonus could be something like 25% for Alliance but i think you get the point by now.
server could check this every, let's say, 3 hours and adjust the numbers.


You can screw around with the numbers however you like, they are just an example.

This would also help with the inbalance of max level characters and maybe population overall because it would naturally be easier to level characters on the underrepresented faction because of the additional XP bonus.
This thread in short.
Alliance: Give us a better reward for using warmode then the horde.
11/10/2018 10:52Posted by Xakura
This thread in short.
Alliance: Give us a better reward for using warmode then the horde.

11/10/2018 10:04Posted by Edgyjojomeme
on my server crosserver works in a way that's for every 2 horde players on WQ there's 15 alliance ones.

next
11/10/2018 10:49Posted by Raiev
For War Mode it might actually be quite simple. Give a bigger incentive to the underrepresented faction. Blizzard has done this for a long time for Battlegrounds so why this wasn't implemented in the first place puzzles me.

But does the extra Honor from Battlegrounds actually result in more Alliance players queuing for Battlegrounds?

Have you heard of any Alliance players who have said:

"I used to be sad and not care about Battlegrounds, but then Blizzard implemented bonus Honor, so now I'm doing 10 Battlegrounds a day and feeling much better! Thanks Blizzard!"

And beyond that - which is the important part - have you heard of any Horde players who have said:

"I used to play Horde and I didn't earn much Honor. Then I switched to Alliance, and they got me set up with an easy program that lets me earn twice as much Honor - and lets me work from home! Thanks Alliance!"

No.

The status quo doesn't change.
@Raiev: Granted, WCR records are only partial... But... the spread of the detected 120s within the past 30 days is as follows:

US: 304 259 alliance, 279 893 horde (about 52/48 split)
EU: 250 371 alliance, 362 812 horde (about 41/59 split)

Additionally, in EU, horde side has better submission numbers, while for the US the submission split is far more complex, but overall far more even. In other words, EU has a much bigger accuracy error for alliance side (the number is far too low).

Now, there is no known way outside Blizzard to determine whether a character online has war mode on or not. Which admittedly leads to a rather clear conclusion: As far as war mode is concerned, a LOT higher % of horde characters have it on than alliance. In other words, the problem does not lie with the actual numbers of players within factions, but rather the clearly evident situation, where war mode is simply far more popular among horde players. Something that server internal balancing will not alter at all...
11/10/2018 10:49Posted by Raiev
For War Mode it might actually be quite simple. Give a bigger incentive to the underrepresented faction. Blizzard has done this for a long time for Battlegrounds so why this wasn't implemented in the first place puzzles me.

But does the extra Honor from Battlegrounds actually result in more Alliance players queuing for Battlegrounds?

...

The status quo doesn't change.
This is probably highly coupled to the importance of honor. There is a huge part of the WoW-population that couldn't care less about honor. Even for me, as someone who enjoys PvP every now and then, it is almost irrelevant. Thing is - Battlegrounds are usually balanced from a numbers perspective. They don't need as much incentive because they immediately have one as soon as you are in the underrepresented faction: your queue pops way faster.

Leveling however is something everybody does or has to do at some point.
That's also why i said "XP/Azerite/<insert other incentive here>". You can always add something that is more valuable here.
11/10/2018 11:06Posted by Trelw
@Raiev: Granted, WCR records are only partial... But... the spread of the detected 120s within the past 30 days is as follows:

US: 304 259 alliance, 279 893 horde (about 52/48 split)
EU: 250 371 alliance, 362 812 horde (about 41/59 split)

Additionally, in EU, horde side has better submission numbers, while for the US the submission split is far more complex, but overall far more even. In other words, EU has a much bigger accuracy error for alliance side (the number is far too low).

Now, there is no known way outside Blizzard to determine whether a character online has war mode on or not. Which admittedly leads to a rather clear conclusion: As far as war mode is concerned, a LOT higher % of horde characters have it on than alliance. In other words, the problem does not lie with the actual numbers of players within factions, but rather the clearly evident situation, where war mode is simply far more popular among horde players. Something that server internal balancing will not alter at all...
I am aware that server balance will not automatically solve the War Mode issue. However, the War Mode issue is currently worsening the server balance even more.
Also putting it like "Alliance just doesn't want to enable War Mode" is just rubbish.
I would LOVE to enable it but as it currently is, it is actively keeping me from playing the game because i can not get anything done when i am hugely outnumbered all the time.

I said it before and i will say it again - this system takes a small inbalance and makes it big. it is self enforcing and dangerous for the longevity of this game in the long run.
you can see the effects on every server/cross realm/whatever. there is no balanced pool and if there is (like my server was) it won't be in the future.
@Raiev: I am trying very hard to understand your deepest point. While incomplete, the data for the US servers seems to indicate that alliance as a whole, is far more popular than in the EU and may even be the preferred faction in the US... and I am drawing a blank as to how what you say, would by itself explain that.

Of course, it is possible that WPvP is far more popular in the EU... But is that assumption of mine even remotely correct? Any comment / thoughts? And even if yes... Why would that be? And why would it only be detrimental in EU? Because the available activity figures seem to indicate that US is not suffering in the way you describe EU servers.

Granted, given the poor coverage of CensusPlus, it is theoretically possible that all four figures are way too low and the balance values are entirely off... but then I run into another problem discussed in other threads. It is physically impossible to have a really low subscription count while maintaining a very high overall activity level (much higher than the one experienced during 2015 and early 2016).
11/10/2018 11:44Posted by Trelw
the data

What data are you refering to here?
@Jito: The combined efforts of all the remaining CensusPlus users and the effects of their data submissions on the Warcraftrealms, as paraphrased in my post a few posts upwards. As I noted, I KNOW the data is far from complete, but people can NOT forcibly argue that all of the following to be true at the same time (right now):

1) Subscription count is at its lowest since WotLK and falling faster than ever.
2) Activity recorded is BOTH far below AND far above figures of 2015 and early 2016.
3) Alliance is dying across the globe.
4) Alliance is dying due to war mode.
5) Blizzard is heavily and intentionally horde biased (due to reason X).

You have been around a LONG time, I know, so your view is much appreciated.

I am certain that 1) is false, 2) does not make any sense... and as for the 3) and 4)... I am extremely sceptical. As for 5) I have absolutely no idea.
11/10/2018 12:08Posted by Trelw
The combined efforts of all the remaining CensusPlus users and the effects of their data submissions on the Warcraftrealms

So this:

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/eu_realmstats.php

?
11/10/2018 11:44Posted by Trelw
@Raiev: I am trying very hard to understand your deepest point. While incomplete, the data for the US servers seems to indicate that alliance as a whole, is far more popular than in the EU and may even be the preferred faction in the US... and I am drawing a blank as to how what you say, would by itself explain that.
I don't know why you would make this an alliance or horde thing to be honest. the system favors the winning faction and thus makes even more people leave the losing faction which then again increases the inbalance overall. is this so hard to understand?

my server was almost perfectly balanced and now it is not balanced anymore. without any actions taken this will drift further and further into a state where no recovery is possible, just like it happened to my old server (which was something like 30/70 in the beginning before it dissolved into 1/99 after faction change was introduced).
@Jito:

http://warcraftrealms.com/census.php?serverid=-3&factionid=-1&minlevel=120&maxlevel=120&servertypeid=-1

This and its US counterpart as outlined above, just swap all US for all EU in the drop down box.

@Raiev: What I mean is, is that it is hard to understand why you would blame war mode for this... In the EU, alliance tends to head for Silvermoon, horde to Draenor. Both are about as far as possible from being balanced (and at the opposite ends of the spectrum) and despite that they are among the most popular servers. In other words, faction balance plays apparently no role in server popularity. In fact, there have been posts where internal imbalance has been noted to be a good thing...
11/10/2018 12:21Posted by Trelw
@Jito:

Thanks. There's a lot of data out there, so it's nice to know what's being referred to :P

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