Honor is overvalued

General
09/11/2018 17:51Posted by Calenn
You spelt 'honour' wrong.


The edgy EU kids speak american english for that extra edge.
09/11/2018 17:34Posted by Grimgar
Not sure why people have such an issue with this. Humans have Light, Tauren have spirits, night elves have Elune, orcs have honour. It’s a belief.

It’s called racial flavour, you know, to differentiate.

Thank god forum moaners aren’t writers


Oh that one is easy.

The Light doesn't exist in real life. It might closely resemble some obscure pantheistic belief system, but it's very obvious that it's supposed to be a self-made religion for a fantasy game. Likewise, nobody is going to claim that Elune is part of the Greek Pantheon, or Jesus' sister or whatever. As for Spirits, there are dozens, if not hundreds of beliefs that have spirits in one form or another.

But honor is something we do know. We all have our own ideas about honor of course, it's not a well defined concept, but we all understand it has something to do with respect. There are a certain set of rules that you adhere to, or else you have no honor.

But orcs show a lot of behaviour that doesn't fit our idea of 'honor'. They practise slavery, they take part in genocidal behaviour (for like the third time now?), invade other countries for their own gain, fled battle, etc.

It's irrelevant why those things happen, that's the downside of honor: you either follow the rules and are honorable or you don't and you're not. There's no such thing as "He only did 1 dishonorable thing, but 9 honorable things, so we call him honorable". If one of your rules is: Victory or Death, you cannot call yourself honorable after you just fled the battle field. Regardless of whether it was the logical choice or not.

And so whenever orcs speak of 'honor', it feels as if the developers really, really want you to consider them honorable, even though they quite clearly have none. It comes across as very hypocritical.
09/11/2018 21:42Posted by Naera
09/11/2018 17:34Posted by Grimgar
Not sure why people have such an issue with this. Humans have Light, Tauren have spirits, night elves have Elune, orcs have honour. It’s a belief.

It’s called racial flavour, you know, to differentiate.

Thank god forum moaners aren’t writers


Oh that one is easy.

The Light doesn't exist in real life. It might closely resemble some obscure pantheistic belief system, but it's very obvious that it's supposed to be a self-made religion for a fantasy game. Likewise, nobody is going to claim that Elune is parth of the Greek Pantheon, or Jesus' sister or whatever. As for Spirits, there are dozens, if not hundreds of beliefs that have spirits in one form or another.

But honor is something we do know. We all have our own ideas about honor of course, it's not a well defined concept, but we all understand it has something to do with respect. There are a certain set of rules that you adhere to, or else you have no honor.

But orcs show a lot of behaviour that doesn't fit our idea of 'honor'. They practise slavery, they take part in genocidal behaviour (for like the third time now?), invade other countries for their own gain, fled battle, etc.

It's irrelevant why those things happen, that's the downside of honor: you either follow the rules and are honorable or you don't and you're not. There's no such thing as "He only did 1 dishonorable thing, but 9 honorable things, so we call him honorable". If one of your rules is: Victory or Death, you cannot call yourself honorable after you just fled the battle field. Regardless of whether it was the logical choice or not.

And so whenever orcs speak of 'honor', it feels as if the developers really, really want you to consider them honorable, even though they quite clearly have none. It comes across as very hypocritical.


You can’t compare real life to the Warcraft universe. That’s where you’re going wrong here. There are people out there that believe the ‘Light’ (Christianity etc) IS real, but regardless the Light is a distorted fictional version of religions.

Honour is also subjective, what may be honourable to us could be dishonourable to others, or them.

Orcs aren’t just a different culture, they are a different species, that don’t even really exist. Who is anyone to say what they should deem as honourable or not? It’s entirely irrelevant comparing real life things to in-game stuff.

Just take it for what it is, orcish honour.
09/11/2018 21:42Posted by Naera
09/11/2018 17:34Posted by Grimgar
Not sure why people have such an issue with this. Humans have Light, Tauren have spirits, night elves have Elune, orcs have honour. It’s a belief.

It’s called racial flavour, you know, to differentiate.

Thank god forum moaners aren’t writers


Oh that one is easy.

The Light doesn't exist in real life. It might closely resemble some obscure pantheistic belief system, but it's very obvious that it's supposed to be a self-made religion for a fantasy game. Likewise, nobody is going to claim that Elune is parth of the Greek Pantheon, or Jesus' sister or whatever. As for Spirits, there are dozens, if not hundreds of beliefs that have spirits in one form or another.

But honor is something we do know. We all have our own ideas about honor of course, it's not a well defined concept, but we all understand it has something to do with respect. There are a certain set of rules that you adhere to, or else you have no honor.

But orcs show a lot of behaviour that doesn't fit our idea of 'honor'. They practise slavery, they take part in genocidal behaviour (for like the third time now?), invade other countries for their own gain, fled battle, etc.

It's irrelevant why those things happen, that's the downside of honor: you either follow the rules and are honorable or you don't and you're not. There's no such thing as "He only did 1 dishonorable thing, but 9 honorable things, so we call him honorable". If one of your rules is: Victory or Death, you cannot call yourself honorable after you just fled the battle field. Regardless of whether it was the logical choice or not.

And so whenever orcs speak of 'honor', it feels as if the developers really, really want you to consider them honorable, even though they quite clearly have none. It comes across as very hypocritical.


If you write a torrent of pompous bull!@#$ when it’s easy, how is it going when it gets hard, heh?

They have a code and seek to follow it. They called it honor but could have called it « skwashagumba », for what we care.
And as our own human and real honor, doing things for the sake of « honor » has more value than being efficient or to win.

« Easy », lmao.
09/11/2018 22:15Posted by Grimgar

You can’t compare real life to the Warcraft universe. That’s where you’re going wrong here. There are people out there that believe the ‘Light’ (Christianity etc) IS real, but regardless the Light is a distorted fictional version of religions.

Honour is also subjective, what may be honourable to us could be dishonourable to others, or them.

Orcs aren’t just a different culture, they are a different species, that don’t even really exist. Who is anyone to say what they should deem as honourable or not? It’s entirely irrelevant comparing real life things to in-game stuff.

Just take it for what it is, orcish honour.


Of course I can compare WoW with real life, it might actually be insightful to do that from time to time.

You're basically reinforcing my point. If Blizzard had called 'orcish honor' something like 'skwashagumba' as the guy beneath me suggested, then it would've been fine. But they didn't, they picked the word honor which is a loaded word. This is simply a case of trying to have your cake and eat it, they want you to associate the positive idea of honor to the orcs, but then portray orcs in such a way which wouldn't be deemed honorable by basically anyone in current society.

09/11/2018 22:26Posted by Nim

If you write a torrent of pompous bull!@#$ when it’s easy, how is it going when it gets hard, heh?

They have a code and seek to follow it. They called it honor but could have called it « skwashagumba », for what we care.
And as our own human and real honor, doing things for the sake of « honor » has more value than being efficient or to win.

« Easy », lmao.


Well, that's unnecessarily antagonistic, did I do something to you?

I merely said that the issue was an easy one, not that my explanation would be. And where I like to be verbose, the argument can be shorter of course. As you yourself showed.

So yes, easy.
09/11/2018 15:56Posted by Telriem
09/11/2018 15:52Posted by Edgyjojomeme
Oh god, this saurfang cinematic makes me cringe. Who even cares about honor except 90+ year old delusional orcs.

Kill, rob, enslave. I have no morality and i'm willing to do anything to gain profit. Honor doesn't sell.


That’s funny because every single thing you post manages to make me cringe and feel embarrassed for you. Literally earlier you were saying how all you want to do is murder people. Send help.

You really need to separate your irl self from your in game persona, it’s worrying.


I play gta 5 to commit vehicular manslaughter for about 2-3 hours in a row.. yet to drive over anyone irl.. ^
09/11/2018 21:42Posted by Naera

But orcs show a lot of behaviour that doesn't fit our idea of 'honor'. They practise slavery, they take part in genocidal behaviour (for like the third time now?), invade other countries for their own gain, fled battle, etc.

[/quote]

If you take a look at african tribal "life worship" and their view on honor you would see quite a few similarities, enough to see its loosely based on human honor at the very least.

Ritual combat and slavery or subjugation of other tribes has been a thing for a while, its a good 800 years since it was common and even honorable in europe but it still happened.
09/11/2018 15:52Posted by Edgyjojomeme
Oh god, this saurfang cinematic makes me cringe. Who even cares about honor except 90+ year old delusional orcs.

Kill, rob, enslave. I have no morality and i'm willing to do anything to gain profit. Honor doesn't sell.


You misunderstand the foundations of the Horde. Talking as an Alliance player.
Horde are supposed to be based on honour and is something that shaped them and drives them.

They are so many examples where the spout this or try to be honourable.
Guldan sacrificing Draenai children was too dishonourable for the Horde,

Orgrim Doomhammer "I rule the Horde now, Gul'dan. Not you, not your warlocks. Doomhammer alone. And there will be no more dishonor. No more treachery. No more deceit and lies!"
For the sake of the "honour" of the Horde he sent half his forces to chase Guldan then was crushed by the Alliance of Lordaeron.

When Ishi of the Burning blade during the divine bell quest in MoP spoke of not being slaves to honour and killing Alliance children in their sleep. Warchief Hellscream did not go down that path.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib3TNB1f72I

Cairne Bloodhoof died in Mak'Gora to poison.
Overlord Kromgar bombing stonetalon mountains even killing children and civilians. Dishonoured the Horde that their Warchief came himself to deal with the situation.

Varok Saurfang: "Honour no matter how dire the battle. Never forsake it!"

They are many more examples. But for all of the Horde's talk of Honour look at them now. It is just talk.

Thrall cheated in Mak'Gora and disgraced the Mak'Gora when fought against Garrosh Hellscream by bringing the elements into the duel.
Varok Saurfang cheap shotted Malfurion Stormrage in the back as he was dueling Sylvannas in Mak'Gora.
A Horde that once will not harm children in their sleep burned them alive in their own city.

Horde at the battle for Lordaeron given the choice between abandoning Horde to be plagued or killing more Alliance many chose to abandon wounded Horde.
The Horde blighted Horde then raised Horde into undeath.
The Honourbound are helping to raise more people into Undeath, even though the Horde once fought against necromancy and undeath. It can't be said that the Horde that fought the Lich King exists anymore.

Sylvannas is doing to Derek Proudmoore what Arthas done to Dranosh Saurfang.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev6EaJvgitk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzScPjI0MUA

While those that speak of honour do nothing about it.

Makes one question. That for all of the talk of the Horde's Honour. Where is their honour? through deeds and actions.
Never forget the words of your Warchief "Honour means nothing to a corpse".
09/11/2018 15:52Posted by Edgyjojomeme
Oh god, this saurfang cinematic makes me cringe. Who even cares about honor except 90+ year old delusional orcs.

Kill, rob, enslave. I have no morality and i'm willing to do anything to gain profit. Honor doesn't sell.


I didn't think it was possible to cram so much cringe into one post. Well done.
09/11/2018 15:52Posted by Edgyjojomeme
Who even cares about honor


I do. But then again, I'm not

26 and too apathetic


You're also called Edgy Jojo Meme. So...well...
10/11/2018 04:21Posted by Ecchì
09/11/2018 15:56Posted by Telriem
...

That’s funny because every single thing you post manages to make me cringe and feel embarrassed for you. Literally earlier you were saying how all you want to do is murder people. Send help.

You really need to separate your irl self from your in game persona, it’s worrying.


I play gta 5 to commit vehicular manslaughter for about 2-3 hours in a row.. yet to drive over anyone irl.. ^


I miss Carmageddon~
09/11/2018 15:53Posted by Angelnl
Reroll goblin then.

*insert excuse me what the f meme*
09/11/2018 15:52Posted by Edgyjojomeme
Oh god, this saurfang cinematic makes me cringe. Who even cares about honor except 90+ year old delusional orcs.

Kill, rob, enslave. I have no morality and i'm willing to do anything to gain profit. Honor doesn't sell.


I prefer Rexxar, he has no qualms about jumping down off a building and axing a Kul Tiran in the back when we are claiming/unlocking our base in Stormsong.
Wow, be careful not to cut yourself with that edge buddy.
09/11/2018 17:51Posted by Calenn
You spelt 'honour' wrong.
Indeed, that's the correct British English spelling that is most commonly used outside the US. Unfortunately we don't get a localised English version, and everywhere in the game it's spelled "honor". So OP isn't wrong either.
09/11/2018 15:56Posted by Telriem

You really need to separate your irl self from your in game persona, it’s worrying.


Isn't that literally what they are doing?

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