Assa vs surv in 2s

Rogue
Hello fellow assasins. I'm new to rogue and fairly new to pvp (been mostly playing 2s with my friend as double dps), but I decided to reach higher rating this expansion. Im playing with random disc priests and so far I've been able to beat almost every comp by changing my tactic, swapping targets, kiting etc.

The only thing that still haunt my nightmares is survival hunter. With such a huge toolkit of rogue I still feel helpless. He can take off all my dots in one global, has decent self healing, huge kiting potential and immune. On top of that freezing trap which I have a hard time to shadowstep to my healer in time. I feel like im at 20% entire match, their constant pressure is insane and they force most of my cooldowns in the opener. The only time I won is when I burst their healer in opener with vendetta.

Any tips? Any youtubers that make 2s guides for rogue? Is it really possible to win if surv is equally skilled?
In my personal experience, it depends what the hunter is running for his 100 talent. The wildfire infusion talent can really be nasty if they get pheromone bomb which means they can just spam kill command on you. I don't have much success against survival hunters either, but I know kiting them and their pet around a pillar and killing it can force them to lose a lot of DPS. People forget that going for the pet can cripple a hunter by a lot. Revive pet can also be interrupted and you can essentially force them to pop turtle to get a safe revive - and if they waste turtle in a scenario like that, they're in trouble. Sometimes I've even seen them waste exhilaration to keep their pet from dying.

All in all though they're just a very strong spec right now, but I'd love to hear what the more high rated rogues have to say about hurting survival hunters.
SV is pretty hard as Assa/X but in general I would:
* only pop defensives when your healer is in a trap ideally, if you do it any other time you're going to lose. If you and your healer overlap defensives, you're probably going to lose. If your healer never deaths a trap and you don't kite properly, you will most likely lose.
* don't bother trying to step to eat traps, instead when he harpoons for trap (okay eat if he didn't harpoon) then you go the opposite direction and kite him til your healer is out. Eating traps when healer is in a root is like impossible (they've changed something about it, so either I just don't get it any more, or its impossible). Basically when you step to him and you fail to eat it, you're in serious trouble. So you go the other way as he has limited mobility. But make sure not to get blown up by his healer if its a disc.
* keep bleeds up on his pet and kill it if it ever goes low. This prevents things like pet stun and RoS.

General idea is to get the hunter down to like 50-70 and then blow him up in a kidney when healer is in CC.

Also take sprint talent vs hunters so you can kite easier.
12/11/2018 18:26Posted by Nexintus
SV is pretty hard as Assa/X but in general I would:
* only pop defensives when your healer is in a trap ideally, if you do it any other time you're going to lose. If you and your healer overlap defensives, you're probably going to lose. If your healer never deaths a trap and you don't kite properly, you will most likely lose.
* don't bother trying to step to eat traps, instead when he harpoons for trap (okay eat if he didn't harpoon) then you go the opposite direction and kite him til your healer is out. Eating traps when healer is in a root is like impossible (they've changed something about it, so either I just don't get it any more, or its impossible). Basically when you step to him and you fail to eat it, you're in serious trouble. So you go the other way as he has limited mobility. But make sure not to get blown up by his healer if its a disc.
* keep bleeds up on his pet and kill it if it ever goes low. This prevents things like pet stun and RoS.

General idea is to get the hunter down to like 50-70 and then blow him up in a kidney when healer is in CC.

Also take sprint talent vs hunters so you can kite easier.


Which pvp talent should I drop for it? In 2s im playing with deadly brew, system shock and smoke bomb, and I feel like both system and smoke are too important to score a kill on kidneyed hunter.
12/11/2018 20:03Posted by Pieskotswini
12/11/2018 18:26Posted by Nexintus
SV is pretty hard as Assa/X but in general I would:
* only pop defensives when your healer is in a trap ideally, if you do it any other time you're going to lose. If you and your healer overlap defensives, you're probably going to lose. If your healer never deaths a trap and you don't kite properly, you will most likely lose.
* don't bother trying to step to eat traps, instead when he harpoons for trap (okay eat if he didn't harpoon) then you go the opposite direction and kite him til your healer is out. Eating traps when healer is in a root is like impossible (they've changed something about it, so either I just don't get it any more, or its impossible). Basically when you step to him and you fail to eat it, you're in serious trouble. So you go the other way as he has limited mobility. But make sure not to get blown up by his healer if its a disc.
* keep bleeds up on his pet and kill it if it ever goes low. This prevents things like pet stun and RoS.

General idea is to get the hunter down to like 50-70 and then blow him up in a kidney when healer is in CC.

Also take sprint talent vs hunters so you can kite easier.


Which pvp talent should I drop for it? In 2s im playing with deadly brew, system shock and smoke bomb, and I feel like both system and smoke are too important to score a kill on kidneyed hunter.


Depends on the healer, SV/disc for example a disc will instant barrier your smoke if they think the SV will die in it. Its basically a different playstyle - sacrificing the all in go, to give you more normal goes. I normally drop system shock when I take sprint.

its like vs say fury/mw as well, its often better to just not take smoke and to take something else like mind numbing instead and just constantly swap goes between the two.

Remember you are almost always the kill target vs an SV. You can kite him LoS of his healer on many maps and then kidney and blow him up whilst his healer is los/cc'd by your priest.

Smoke kills are good fun and do happen but more often than not, you don't get the kill, just a trinket or something. I mean monks ring of peace it, shamans wall or run in to link, discs have barrier. I feel its usage in 2s isn't as good as 3s.
Hey!

Pretty nice forum discussion, Survival Hunters indeed seem to be a nightmare for Rogues in general and especially Assassination..

I would say that if the Hunter/X team is at the same skill level as your Rogue/X team you simply cannot win.
Therefore you've gotta be smarter to win this. Adapt your tactics to the healer. If he is with a Shaman train Shaman and DoT Hunter as well. Shamans should die easily to you in 2s if you don't miss your kicks too much and Kidney at the right moment. Also, try to communicate with your healer to time a cc on dps when you Kidney Shaman so the hunter doesn't dispel your pressure away. If he's with a Disc you HAVE to slow the disc and LoS him while doing damage to the Hunter who will need to follow you. Enemy Disc has to be slowed almost 24/7 and you can win this after a few minutes when they start to run our of cds and dampening goes higher. The Disc won't be able to outheal your damage too long, just survive until then. If he's with a Druid you have to attack the Druid as much as possible but you can't always catch him. Don't waste too much time running after him, attack hunter when you can't get to druid, try to position yourself in shs range to step kidney our of bear form when he's been weakened by the Dots you should maintain on him. Hitting g the hunter as well is very important. By spreading pressure you will get the druid when he's not topped and you can force him to trinket, then it's blind and if it doesn't work you have a whole 2 min window to kill him in a stun. Also it's extremely important that you prevent those cyclones on your healer. If he's with a Monk it's really similar. If he's with a pala and they plan well then rip, Mending Bandage dispelling bleeds every 25s + Pure of Heart dispelling all your poisons every gcd + Divine Shield + 2 BoPs + 2 Sacs are too much usually.

As said above, it is crucial not to overlap cds with your healer. Also if the Hunter has no trinket a nice 6s Kindey when he traps your healer is kind of a defensive ;)
You have to try to survive by stunning and kiting and using Feint a lot, so you can keep your defensives for when it is really needed!

Smokebomb isn't that good in 2s. Either pick the Sprint to get mobility or Creeping Venom because damage helps.

In case it helps you I've started recording my games this season and put them on yt, Shadenox on YouTube search bar and you'll find that, I did upload a few games where I beat those pesky hunters. That might help you, at least I hope!

Good luck!

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