8.1 spoilers. Lorash.

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Lorash is easy minded, he thinks of the Kaldorei did not exiled then all the bad things would never happen. And he is mad cause the Kaldorei did not help them. That is the only reason why he hates them so much.

I like him, he will be a good Forsaken Leader.
I don't understand the hatred of Lorash. The exile of the highborne was justified, because they breake the rules of the Kaldorei. I think he just searches after a scapegoat for all the bad stuff which happened to the Quel-/Sindorei. I can't take him seriously this way.
30/10/2018 06:46Posted by Shandyr
I don't understand the hatred of Lorash. The exile of the highborne was justified, because they breake the rules of the Kaldorei. I think he just searches after a scapegoat for all the bad stuff which happened to the Quel-/Sindorei. I can't take him seriously this way.


His hatred is unjustified.

The Highborne were told to forsake the magic which almost brought about the end of the world and they didn't care. Talk about arrogance.
Then, they WELCOMED their exile.

And suddenly the Kaldorei are to blame -_-

Lorash can be related to exactly due to that - unjustified hatred. He is a flawed character who despises the people he believes wronged his people. It doesn't really matter to him that it might have been the right thing to do.
His people suffered due to that, at least in his point of view, so he hates the Kaldorei.
Not every character has to be a perfect person who always strives for what is right ;)

Especially that the current Horde's narrative is being "pragmatic", morals be damned, truth be told. Lorash fits in the non-shining-knights-always-striving-for-perfection narrative. He is flawed to the point of being annoying. Which is good :P
30/10/2018 06:46Posted by Shandyr
The exile of the highborne was justified, because they breake the rules of the Kaldorei


How just any punishment is considered depends on the eye of the beholder.
What Lorash saw, is his people being exiled, to die in a hostile land and left to fend for themselves against several kinds of threats that almost wiped them all.
He then continued to see how Night elves treated them with disdain and mistrust, even if they were comprised by the Highborne “breed” that actually fought against the Legion.

He is just from his point of view, and is willing to make night elves pay for all those years they willingly turned a blind eye to the needs of a whole segment of their own people.
Meh, he is still a trash character.

I absolutely hate his attitude, it reminds me of recent resurge of people like that which came with this idiocy like "privilage" (not actual one like benefits due to rank you were born, no, some nonsense like your skin alone makes you privilged).

This is the type of person that blames for all his failiurs anyone but himself and was never critical of his own actions. Well if land was harsh and cold then move to warm place, monon. If trolls kill your friends, - well crazy thought - maybe they don't want you on their territories because the crackheads of your kind harmed them greatly on purpose repeatedly?

Nobody told them to cross the the ocean, and even if they did, why not settling on uncharted islands? Or moving to Feralas? Didn't their superior magic allowed them to do proper scrying?

And look Orcs actually tried to murder them and destroy their home, but that's cool because that means we can kill those who exiled us, even if we were told the reasons why we were exiled and got chance to abandon magic and convert, but you chose to stick to arcane magic, it was your or your parents choice.

It's completely unproportional, farfetched and just sad how one can be this petty and deluded. I always preferred characters that are masters of their own fate. I mean look at Zandalari exiles some were wrongly accused and also sent to harsh lands with very little chance to survive, and yet they worked their arses to make sure they carry on and make it out. It was not fair to them to receive such fate but nobody blamed empire itself or royal family for that.

Now I wonder if Lorash will Reee while he attacks.
30/10/2018 10:16Posted by Zakkaru
And look Orcs actually tried to murder them and destroy their home, but that's cool because that means we can kill those who exiled us, even if we were told the reasons why we were exiled and got chance to abandon magic and convert, but you chose to stick to arcane magic, it was your or your parents choice.

[/quote]

Well, while I also despise Lorash and his reasons, on this point it can be justified with: "The orcs that wanted to destroy my kingdom are dead already, I´m allied with other orcs now, while Malfurion is still the same person that exiled my people".
30/10/2018 10:31Posted by Lightblade
30/10/2018 10:16Posted by Zakkaru
And look Orcs actually tried to murder them and destroy their home, but that's cool because that means we can kill those who exiled us, even if we were told the reasons why we were exiled and got chance to abandon magic and convert, but you chose to stick to arcane magic, it was your or your parents choice.


Well, while I also despise Lorash and his reasons, on this point it can be justified with: "The orcs that wanted to destroy my kingdom are dead already, I´m allied with other orcs now, while Malfurion is still the same person that exiled my people".


But this is simply not true. There are still orcs that took part in those wars... Take a look at Saurfang for example. During the Borean Tundra campaign he even talks about hard times for "us, old veterans" implying that there are more orcs who like him took part in the wars.

"The orcs that wanted to destroy my kingdom are dead already" is simply false.

Going further, we can also say that many of the Night Elves that were alive during the exile of the Highborne are now dead as well while the others like Malfurion, are still alive.

So sorry, but Lorash's logic is illogical. And I guess this is the flavour of his character.
30/10/2018 10:31Posted by Lightblade
30/10/2018 10:16Posted by Zakkaru
And look Orcs actually tried to murder them and destroy their home, but that's cool because that means we can kill those who exiled us, even if we were told the reasons why we were exiled and got chance to abandon magic and convert, but you chose to stick to arcane magic, it was your or your parents choice.



Well, while I also despise Lorash and his reasons, on this point it can be justified with: "The orcs that wanted to destroy my kingdom are dead already, I´m allied with other orcs now, while Malfurion is still the same person that exiled my people".[/quote]Saurfang is know for slaughtering innocent people in the past. And Lorash wanted to impress him. Also he just heard stories about Malfurion. He is just a jerk.
30/10/2018 10:53Posted by Shandyr
He is just a jerk.


This.

Have people not considered the fact that Lorash is just a douche... Maybe he has reason, maybe he doesn't. He might just be an A-hole. I mean look at his story, He is born in a foreign land, of hardship and strife, his people constantly travelling, he doesn't know why, just that 'some people' had cast his people out. People are dying, starving, changing, one day his father just doesn't come home. He's a kid, so he grows up hating those people who cast his parents out, and holding them responsible, There is often this misapprehension which is that characters know everything. They don't. They don't have the same Meta Knowledge that we do. We know more than Anduin, Sylvanas, Genn, Nathanos, anyone, we certainly know more than Lorash. All he knows is what he has experienced. A childhood of hardship and unpleasantness, and his fathers death, Why? Because the Kaldorei exiled them. Thats what he knows. Its not the whole truth, but that is what he knows.

We know the original exiles were actually chill with being Exiled, but imagine being the next generation? How resentful you would feel, struggling to survive in a foreign land. Thats Lorash. He actually makes sense as a character. It doesn't -matter- that his parents were pretty chill with being Exiled, what matters is that someone did them wrong!

Someone made a very good parallel with the plight of the Native Americans earlier, that's pretty much it. I mean the Trail of Tears was a horrific episode in history, and one that America should hang its head in shame over, but it is a good example.

So, yeah, Lorash kind of makes sense. He's angry. He's angry at what happened to his parents, at the fact that his childhood wasn't a happy time, but one of hardship and constant struggle to survive. He has no 'Happy memories' to take solace in, Honestly, along with Genn, he is one of the more believable characters in WoW....
30/10/2018 10:16Posted by Zakkaru
I absolutely hate his attitude, it reminds me of recent resurge of people like that which came with this idiocy like "privilage" (not actual one like benefits due to rank you were born, no, some nonsense like your skin alone makes you privilged).


Zandalari?

========

And I agree 100% with Brigante here.

Everyone has their own bias. And even the most just of punishments might seem unjust to a third party given their context.
It’s not as if Illidari consider their imprisonment “just”, even if Maiev did in fact have just reasons to do so back then.
Indeed a traumatic childhood. Maybe I took that into account too little. But he ist still over 7000 years old and acts like a fool.
30/10/2018 11:56Posted by Brigante
So, yeah, Lorash kind of makes sense. He's angry. He's angry at what happened to his parents, at the fact that his childhood wasn't a happy time, but one of hardship and constant struggle to survive. He has no 'Happy memories' to take solace in, Honestly, along with Genn, he is one of the more believable characters in WoW....


I couldn't disagree more, unless we agree that he is textbook example of idiot. There were plenty of helves that made it out, and crafted their own destiny, no other was such a sore loser to blame people he never met for stuff he has very little idea about. I never blamed characters for lack of meta knowledge, but in-universe knowledge should be enough for him to not come to such a ridiculous conclusions.

Your parents were exiled, the were cool with it and accepted their choice.
But they were not the only ones. So why not sticking in a group and focus on crafting your own future? He is a sore loser and I hope he dies again, permanetly.

30/10/2018 12:03Posted by Zarao
Zandalari?


Zandalari live up to their legacy, they work their arses since the very childhood to earn it. They're spartans of wow and the don't tolerate excuses. So you failed to understand my point about being master of your own fate. Zandalari are bron noble but to actually get into the position of power they have to work since the very childhood. They have much healthier mindset, if not the healthiest.
Just because you're born among goods doesn't mean you can sit and do nothing, be useful to society, learn how to fight or serve the loa. Be productive and not some useless hobo because then you're as much trash like people they fight against.
30/10/2018 12:34Posted by Zakkaru
Zandalari live up to their legacy, they work their arses since the very childhood to earn it. They're spartans of wow and the don't tolerate excuses. So you failed to understand my point about being master of your own fate. Zandalari are bron noble but to actually get into the position of power they have to work since the very childhood. They have much healthier mindset, if not the healthiest


They have a literal caste system.

That’s the opposite of what you described.

If you are born at the bottom, you stay at the bottom no matter what. That’s the reason we have so many lowcast beggars around the docks.

That’s some book definition of racial privileges based on nothing but who your parents were.

And in that regard they have a mindset that greatly resembles elves.
30/10/2018 12:50Posted by Zarao
30/10/2018 12:34Posted by Zakkaru
Zandalari live up to their legacy, they work their arses since the very childhood to earn it. They're spartans of wow and the don't tolerate excuses. So you failed to understand my point about being master of your own fate. Zandalari are bron noble but to actually get into the position of power they have to work since the very childhood. They have much healthier mindset, if not the healthiest


They have a literal caste system.

That’s the opposite of what you described.

If you are born at the bottom, you stay at the bottom no matter what. That’s the reason we have so many lowcast beggars around the docks.

That’s some book definition of racial privileges based on nothing but who your parents were.

And in that regard they have a mindset that greatly resembles elves.


Except game proved you wrong, caste system was based on their abilities. If they prove themselves competent nothing stops them from earning a big title - look even at foreigner which was Jakra'zet. He shouldn't even get the role of general because he was outsider and yet he proved to be the best. And now Rakera who was advancing on her own terms.
This is why you have hall of castes to determine your own fate - prove yourself and you have a chance to grow great.

If you're good physically you can join the army or become a beastmaster, if you are plessed by the loa you can become a priest or scholar, if you have both qualities you can become elite Prelate.

So you don't undersrand how Zandalari caste system works.
30/10/2018 13:01Posted by Zakkaru
So you don't undersrand how Zandalari caste system works.


I wasn’t necessarily talking about the caste system amongst other Zandalari. I’m talking also about the caste system these Zandalari felt the need to apply to the trolls (and elves for that matter).

The term ‘lesser troll tribe’ is thrown a lot in the port quests.

People don’t really need to look far to find evidence that the Zandalari gravitate towards a racial supremacy mentality in a similar way as elves.
It’s only natural as both races share the same ancestors.
30/10/2018 06:46Posted by Shandyr
I don't understand the hatred of Lorash. The exile of the highborne was justified, because they breake the rules of the Kaldorei. I think he just searches after a scapegoat for all the bad stuff which happened to the Quel-/Sindorei. I can't take him seriously this way.


Well hatred is an irrational emotion, so this isn't surprising. Its a human ( or elven) flaw but its only natural.
30/10/2018 13:19Posted by Zarao
30/10/2018 13:01Posted by Zakkaru
So you don't undersrand how Zandalari caste system works.


I wasn’t necessarily talking about the caste system amongst other Zandalari. I’m talking also about the caste system these Zandalari felt the need to apply to the trolls (and elves for that matter).

The term ‘lesser troll tribe’ is thrown a lot in the port quests.

People don’t really need to look far to find evidence that the Zandalari gravitate towards a racial supremacy mentality in a similar way as elves.
It’s only natural as both races share the same ancestors.


That was their opinion, Zandalari had no power to actually implement caste system on others.
We're also applying certain hierachy based on our own opinions and our own understanding of the world like food pyramid lol.

They even considered Darkspears to be lesser ones. And yet they reached out to Vol'Jin twice because he proved his worth and respected him greatly because he didn't have any insecurity in front if them and because he forged his own path.

Their have undenied historical legacy, nobody will take that from them, they are the parent tribe of all trollkind of course they look down upon them and yet still caring enough to keep contact with them and listen to them.

And elves - lol they earned the hate.
I couldn't disagree more, unless we agree that he is textbook example of idiot. There were plenty of helves that made it out, and crafted their own destiny, no other was such a sore loser to blame people he never met for stuff he has very little idea about.


This is what I mean by Meta information. Who is saying that Lorash is exceptionally well versed in history? He might just be a douche. It doesn't matter what -we- know, it is only relevant as to what -he- thinks. Maybe he is a sore loser, I mean that is what I kind of implied, He might just be opinionated and racist, Not every character has perfect information as to what has happened in the world. The assumption otherwise is that every NPC knows the details of everything the Hero does. Maybe sometimes characters don't, and base their opinions on what they know/have experienced? There is no reason to think that characters are omnipotent, so yeah, maybe Lorash is just a very old opinionated Jerk. Sort of like Prince Phillip, just without the royalty bit...
30/10/2018 08:33Posted by Halasibel
His hatred is unjustified.

The Highborne were told to forsake the magic which almost brought about the end of the world and they didn't care. Talk about arrogance.
Then, they WELCOMED their exile.

And suddenly the Kaldorei are to blame -_-


hate is an irrational emotion.

From his view, his people are the victims and the NE are the snobby culprits to that. Every tragic death (I think his father) happening during the exodus, he gave the Ne the fault. Like Arya Stark and her names. Hatred blinds people, look at Maiev during WC3.
From his view, everything against the Kaldorei is justified, because his vengeance tells him so.
Like the Kaldorei player saying everythign is justified against the horde after Teldrasil,.
Still they are both wrong, but from their hate perspective, everything is justified

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