why i think TBC servers should not come

Classic Discussion
30/10/2018 14:20Posted by Moonsight
30/10/2018 06:39Posted by Lersh
We dont want classic merely for sightseeing


Personally I largely do. There's almost nothing from Vanilla content left in retail. Leveling zones all entirely transformed in Cataclysm. Half of the raids (UBRS, Onyxia, ZG, Naxx) gone. Iconic dungeons (Deadmines, SFK, Scholomance, Scarlet Monastery) gone or butchered (Sunken Temple), or at the very least chopped in pieces (like Maraudon, BRD, Stratholme).

None of the above applies to TBC, in which 99% of content has remained untouched and you even have dungeons and Black Temple in timewalking.

Now I am not saying that this is why Blizzard should never make TBC servers, just that the situation is incomparable to Vanilla and that it is highly unlikely it will ever happen.


and this is what i tried to say. if they do decide to make TBC i wish them only success and wont type a wall of no like retailers did with vanilla
30/10/2018 14:08Posted by Tindella
30/10/2018 06:43Posted by Luminnar
and throwing out unfinished content into an already broken game is gonna create an unfinished broken mess.

Vanilla was not broken, tho. But yeah, we don't need unfinished content in it.

30/10/2018 06:43Posted by Luminnar
TBC is the way to go and it's the pinnacle of WoW.

That's just like, your opinion, man.


if you're playing a warrior, mage or rogue (which i see you do play a warrior), then vanilla is definitely a pinnacle of WoW for you. for everyone else, that likes even class distribution (this is NEVER the case in vanilla), feeling unique and appreciated when playing a certain spec or class (this is also NEVER the case with vanilla, unless you play a cookie-cutter spec and class that supports it) or simply if you hate one shots in pvp (like i do, as they promote no skill, don't allow any counter-play and so on - basically you're playing a mage or a rogue, means you'll just """"outplay"""" everyone else), dungeons (after acquiring preraid BiS, dungeons in vanilla are forgotten and pointless), hard and demanding pve (pve in vanilla was a chore to do - simply spamming a single button in place and waiting for a boss to die), arena, no 24/7 grinding just to get some "pvp" gear, while still retaining all the qualities that vanilla had, like challenging leveling, walking to dungeons and instances, active world pvp, items from vanilla still being used heavily (much wider item pool than it was ever the case in vanilla) and so on, then TBC is definitely the pinnacle of WoW. and believe it or not, but the TBC community is far bigger than the classic one. and TBC was the era where WoW attracted so many people and kept them from leaving. in vanilla, i felt bored most of the time, as i hate doing raids, i hate BG grinding like a robot just to get some gear and most of all, i hate imbalanced pvp and uneven class distribution (no, seeing a combined 70% of warriors, rogues and mages is not unique by any means) - and guess what, vanilla has all of these things - and before you say some idiocy again, like: "BUT BFA HAS NONE OF THESE, GO PLAY RETAIL", i'll just remind you how stupid you are.
30/10/2018 18:32Posted by Luminnar
if you're playing a warrior, mage or rogue (which i see you do play a warrior), then vanilla is definitely a pinnacle of WoW for you.

I meant that for a loads of people (and sub-wise) Wrath was the pinnacle of WoW, and from there things started to get worse and worse. You said that TBC was the pinnacle like it was a fact, and that's just, again, your opinion, man.

Personally, I love vanilla the best, and don't really like TBC, but not because of the things you mentioned (could not care less about class balance and other stuff), but because after the huge world of vanilla we got stuck on a little island with space goats and emo elves in some half-arsed scifi setting. I hated dungeons with several difficulty, for me it's where WoW started to become Game of Warcraft and not the World. And some other misc annoying stuff, like flying mounts, but I agree that gameplay-wise (classes) got better in crusade.

30/10/2018 18:32Posted by Luminnar
and before you say some idiocy again, like: "BUT BFA HAS NONE OF THESE, GO PLAY RETAIL", i'll just remind you how stupid you are.

Just...lol.
30/10/2018 05:38Posted by Soaris
hi,

so yea it's been done to death but i see many people that want TBC servers down the line and i can't stop thinking about 1 fact that people forget.

one of the reasons we asked about vanilla is that with cata expansion the old world have been changed. now im not talking game play mechanics but i mean quests/zones changing/items removed/quests removed and what not.

the reason why i think TBC server have no valid reason is because yes, the lvl cap isn't 70 anymore but old outland with all the old quests (i'm pretty sure all) are still in there. draenei original zone is still there as well as blood elves. they didn't touch outland or the quest and therefor who want to experience that, can just hop in the dark portal. but people who want vanilla, can't hop any where in live game to see the old world and quests and what not.

that IMO is enough reason that if they do develop classic somehow, it should be classic + server with scrapped content that was there since alpha/vanilla as opposed to TBC servers.

ofc those classic + should be separate from classic ones to avoid power creep but imo should retain 1.12 talents and game play.

anyway i don't think im entitled to classic but people that want TBC don't deserve it. this is just my opinion why scrapped content is more appealing to my taste.

so what's more appealing to you guys?


If you think the current tbc content feels the same as playing it then then you are wrong. When is the last time you saw someone use cc for real for example, cc used to be a requirement back then otherwise it was a wipe.

Sure it might not be scrapped but honestly everything before the cataclysm would work well as a classic server on its own. After all it was at the end of wotlk and mostly in cataclysm that the catering to casuals began in way too big amounts
30/10/2018 18:32Posted by Luminnar
if you're playing a warrior, mage or rogue (which i see you do play a warrior), then vanilla is definitely a pinnacle of WoW for you.

I meant that for a loads of people (and sub-wise) Wrath was the pinnacle of WoW, and from there things started to get worse and worse. You said that TBC was the pinnacle like it was a fact, and that's just, again, your opinion, man.

Personally, I love vanilla the best, and don't really like TBC, but not because of the things you mentioned (could not care less about class balance and other stuff), but because after the huge world of vanilla we got stuck on a little island with space goats and emo elves in some half-arsed scifi setting. I hated dungeons with several difficulty, for me it's where WoW started to become Game of Warcraft and not the World. And some other misc annoying stuff, like flying mounts, but I agree that gameplay-wise (classes) got better in crusade.


the peak in sub numbers was indeed the highest during WotLK and both, pve and pvp (arena) especially were incredible during that time - better then ever after tbh - but WotLK introduced something i despise the entire expansion for. something that singlehandedly ruined the world in world of warcraft. i'm not talking about flying mounts. not even about adding an additional huge continent... i'm talking about RDF. at first, it was a good addition, but as people started to realize you don't even need to leave the capital city past level 15 in order to level, it changed everything. that was added on patch 3.3 and it was the patch WoW started heading downwards, despite having (literally) the most amount of players during that patch and from that patch onwards, blizzard was only losing subscribers. i agree with flying mounts tho, if only they didn't introduce them... if only...
30/10/2018 19:18Posted by Oldmangeorge
30/10/2018 05:38Posted by Soaris
hi,

so yea it's been done to death but i see many people that want TBC servers down the line and i can't stop thinking about 1 fact that people forget.

one of the reasons we asked about vanilla is that with cata expansion the old world have been changed. now im not talking game play mechanics but i mean quests/zones changing/items removed/quests removed and what not.

the reason why i think TBC server have no valid reason is because yes, the lvl cap isn't 70 anymore but old outland with all the old quests (i'm pretty sure all) are still in there. draenei original zone is still there as well as blood elves. they didn't touch outland or the quest and therefor who want to experience that, can just hop in the dark portal. but people who want vanilla, can't hop any where in live game to see the old world and quests and what not.

that IMO is enough reason that if they do develop classic somehow, it should be classic + server with scrapped content that was there since alpha/vanilla as opposed to TBC servers.

ofc those classic + should be separate from classic ones to avoid power creep but imo should retain 1.12 talents and game play.

anyway i don't think im entitled to classic but people that want TBC don't deserve it. this is just my opinion why scrapped content is more appealing to my taste.

so what's more appealing to you guys?


If you think the current tbc content feels the same as playing it then then you are wrong. When is the last time you saw someone use cc for real for example, cc used to be a requirement back then otherwise it was a wipe.

Sure it might not be scrapped but honestly everything before the cataclysm would work well as a classic server on its own. After all it was at the end of wotlk and mostly in cataclysm that the catering to casuals began in way too big amounts


well like i said, i didn't mean game mechanics since its ofc changed and faceroll everything at higher lvl.

even then, part of wanting vanilla is the old world. not only and ofc because of gameplay too, but the old world/quests/items/weather effects even, is part of the reason for me at least for wanting classic. for TBC lovers, they can at least enjoy the content if they miss it and not hop on to a destroyed darkshore or whatever.
30/10/2018 10:31Posted by Kheron
30/10/2018 08:07Posted by Taxation
If the bar is so low that we're only getting a frankenpatch then TBC should be out by 2021

Taxation shut up and go back your "progressive patch pserver". Oh that's right, they don't exist since progressive patching is a retarded idea that only a handful of people want to play for pure nostalgia reasons.

Vanilla was a great game throughout. The reason private servers focused on 1.12 was that it takes a lot of resources doing it right and they only had a 1.12 build as base. A multibillion dollar company could for sure recreate the whole thing if they wanted to.

Nostalrius had a great solution with progressive itemization, but the objective have always been to recreate Vanilla as a whole. It's natural that droolers think that 1.12 was the only playable part of the game when in fact it represented preparing for TBC. The game was very different by then. A real fan would like to try out earlier patches as well for the full experience.

I understand you have played on private servers and you feel comfortable with that experience and you're a shriveled up personality, so you get nervous when taken out of your comfort zone, but there is no good reason why Classic just should be a snippet of what Vanilla was. And when players are starting to talk "retuning" then it's really fkn idiotic when the obvious option is just to introduce early talent trees and keep faithful to Vanilla.

Progressive patching makes no sense whatsoever from a gameplay point of view

That's the rule.....that I just made up :D
and even less to those who never played Vanilla.

Nothing makes sense to them.

There's nothing "awesome" about progressive patches except for those who want to abuse some broken mechanics for the lulz.

I think Vanilla was awesome. I'm sorry you feel like a big part of it was crap, but I think you're in a minority.

"Frankenpatch" is the only reasonable way to proceed and makes perfect sense.

A recreation of Vanilla makes sense. Some private server sandbox does not.
Completelly disagree.
Just like in Vanilla, TBC didn't had cross-realm and anti-social tools that auto grouped you up with other people by just clicking a button.

I personly had the best time in WoW during TBC, and I really hope there will come a day in the future I'm able to experience TBC again they way it was back in the day without all that stuff that doesn't belong in mmorpg's.

But I'm glad and grateful Classic is coming out soon so I'm able to play again the oldschool way, as mmorpg's were meant to be played. And WoW just had the perfect balance with being a themepark not all that hardcore vs other oldschool mmorpg's back in the day. That's also why I think it was pretty much the only one that got bigger and bigger while the others were struggling with keeping enough players, it just had the perfect formula.
It will be probably progressive at some point: vanilla>tbc>wotlk etc
I am so greatful that Classic will be a reality. I have long longed for this. But for me WoW is TBC. I started back then, and the game was at its prime then to imo. But Vanilla still will be something that I will come back to. Hopefully it is possible to just pay for just that. I have no intrest in retail at all. WoD was the last try.
31/10/2018 02:01Posted by Soaris
30/10/2018 19:18Posted by Oldmangeorge
...

If you think the current tbc content feels the same as playing it then then you are wrong. When is the last time you saw someone use cc for real for example, cc used to be a requirement back then otherwise it was a wipe.

Sure it might not be scrapped but honestly everything before the cataclysm would work well as a classic server on its own. After all it was at the end of wotlk and mostly in cataclysm that the catering to casuals began in way too big amounts


well like i said, i didn't mean game mechanics since its ofc changed and faceroll everything at higher lvl.

even then, part of wanting vanilla is the old world. not only and ofc because of gameplay too, but the old world/quests/items/weather effects even, is part of the reason for me at least for wanting classic. for TBC lovers, they can at least enjoy the content if they miss it and not hop on to a destroyed darkshore or whatever.


I still disagree tho anything before Cataclysm felt like a different game with an community, unlike world of queuecraft it become shortly after that. the faceroll it is now would fit with the cataclysm however redoing the tbc content with the current skills/speccs/talents just isnt the same
You can expect for a moment that anyone takes serious your idea in which you resume the importance of Vanilla or any other server expansion in just having the original content.

Yet, it has been clear that most of the people who want Vanilla servers want to have the exact original gameplay with no change, but no, you want us to believe that only the content matter.

There is no need TBC or WOTLK servers because the content is available even if all the gameplay has radically changed over the years, but at the same time, it is ok for you to want Vanilla to have all the original content and gameplay.

If that was true there is no need to have any Classic servers, they could just restore the original zones in BfA servers with a portal in Caverns of Times (something that i want too, but having both options, Classic zones in BfA servers for just content and also Classic servers with both content and gameplay), you will have what you want, the content. The truth is that you can't resume Vanilla, TBC or WOTLK servers to only the content that was available there.

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