Who can lead the Forsakens if...

General
09/11/2018 13:19Posted by Aeula
What makes you think Blizzard will give the Forsaken a leader once Sylvanas is gone?

Trolls haven't had one since Lol'jin died. Orcs haven't had one since Saurfang turned traitor.

I don't think the Forsaken will be made a special case.


Traitor to you, at least he has the guts unlike some others, looking at you Baine.
09/11/2018 08:43Posted by Sigvard
... if Sylvanas and Nathos die, who can lead the Forsakens? Who the next in lore?
Calia Menethil is now holy undead, but she stand in Alliance, and is good (good option to Holy Forsaken allied race for the Alliance).
So... My first thought miss Lilian Voss, but she is very good assassin, but not a leader.
My second thought (and my vote): Alexi Barov.
He have noble origin, and have ingame lore, and have a living brother (more new story options, maybe Barovbowl, etc).

So just for theorycraft: IF Sylvanas and Nathos die, who can lead the Forsakens?


A few possibilities i can think of right now.

They'll officially join the horde.

They'll go on their own, the way some of them currently are.

They'll become a new scourge type group and a threat to azeroth. Potentially a future expansion.

The new lich king will take control of them.

Most of them die right alongside sylvanas.

basically the possibilities are quite a lot.
Gordo.
09/11/2018 13:19Posted by Aeula
What makes you think Blizzard will give the Forsaken a leader once Sylvanas is gone? Trolls haven't had one since Lol'jin died. Orcs haven't had one since Saurfang turned traitor.I don't think the Forsaken will be made a special case.


Well, they were quiet about it, no fanfare or ceremony, but it is common knowledge that Rok'han is the leader of the Darkspear now, isn't it? From their interactions I can kind of see him and Talanji becoming a Horde 'Power couple' to echo Tyrande and Malfurion. I mean it would be crap if they just did it for that -reason- alone, but the two characters do seem to genuinely get on, and Blizz can do 'low key' relationships without being 'in your face' about it, like Lor'themar and Liadrin, heck, I had to read a novel not even in my native language to find -that- nugget out..fortunately I can speak and read German..

As for the Orcs, well it -is- Saurfang. He's been missing for what, One Patch? Seriously, the dude is getting massive story thrown at him, so even if the Orcs are a bit 'rudderless' at the moment they still have a leader who is getting more attention than any other Horde character bar Sylvanas and Nathanos.

If Sylvanas is killed, Nathanos will blatantly take over. If Sylvanas and Nathanos are both killed, Calia Menethil could be a candidate....

However.....

The Horde already has one racial leader who has kind of been co-opted by the Alliance, in the form of Saurfang (Even if no one bar Anduin knows this yet)

I don't know if going the same route twice, at the same time, would be the smartest storytelling. What the Forsaken need, (And are the only race without) is a ruler who actually -looks- like one of them. Blizzard had a perfect candidate in Nathanos, but now he doesn't look Forsaken anymore, I'm not even sure Calia would. Lilian Voss works in that regard, but not from a character point of view, it just doesn't make narrative sense.

If only they had ...ahah...fleshed out some more Forsaken characters, this would be easier, Master Apothecary Farinell is an example, He's already the head of the RAS, He could be built up as important, and could work. He also -looks- Forsaken.

An equally creepy option is that the Val'kyr have enough of Sylvanas, and the surviving three rule as a Triumvirate. I mean they have the power of (un)life and Death over the Forsaken, they could easily take over.

Ultimately however, I think we will see Sylvanas overthrown, but not slain, and she will remain ruler of the Forsaken. I mean -everyone- in the world would have to come down with a case of 'the stupid's for that to happen and allow her to live, but I think that is what will happen.
Alexi is dead dead tho.
09/11/2018 08:54Posted by Kaelgar
Calia Menethil is now holy made undead, but she doesn't stand with Alliance.
It was said in Before the Storm, she is a priest and not a part of Alliance.
She serves the Light, and idea of helping other regardless of their race, faction or status.

If she were to go over to the horde to save hers people (she is a heir to the throne of Lordraeron) while slowly redeeming them from the inside she would do it.
She proclaimed herself their leader the moment she commanded them to run towards alliance for protection in Arahi Highlinds. Her being once of the undead, not shadowborne one would give the hope of redemption to the Forsaken as till now they have no hope other than following Banshee Queen.

Hell it would even give the option for peace again since current war profits only Sylvana's ambition.


Er... What the sister of Arthas. Way to go sunshine. By the way she is in bed with the Alliance.... and Sylvanas already killed her once. She is sickly to the core. Give me a break.
09/11/2018 13:35Posted by Ygrithe
09/11/2018 13:19Posted by Aeula
What makes you think Blizzard will give the Forsaken a leader once Sylvanas is gone?

Trolls haven't had one since Lol'jin died. Orcs haven't had one since Saurfang turned traitor.

I don't think the Forsaken will be made a special case.


Traitor to you, at least he has the guts unlike some others, looking at you Baine.

Even if he is right he is traitor he betrayed the warchief and the horde.

By working with the Alliance the enemy of horde he is a tractor.

Eqpcially in middle of a war.
09/11/2018 14:58Posted by Friscie
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Traitor to you, at least he has the guts unlike some others, looking at you Baine.

Even if he is right he is traitor he betrayed the warchief and the horde.

By working with the Alliance the enemy of horde he is a tractor.

Eqpcially in middle of a war.


Then you're all traitors for betraying Garrosh, you also worked with Alliance in doing so. Not same? Garrosh not sexy enough?
I am willing to take up the mantle. The new Capital of the Forsaken will be Teldrasil.

Plenty of bodies there and annexing the Exodar will give us a small set of out of the way islands to build a nice fleet
09/11/2018 15:00Posted by Skyrha
Then you're all traitors for betraying Garrosh, you also worked with Alliance in doing so. Not same? Garrosh not sexy enough?


Gonna have to pick you up here, and examine the Blood Oath of the Horde

"Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde.
I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.
From this moment until the end of days I live and die - For the Horde!"

I'll preface this, by the fact that Lor'themar actually calls Garrosh out over this in 'Tides of War' stating that he is loyal to the Horde, not to Garrosh. Garrosh then claims that he -Is- the Horde, and Lor'themar corrects him, He is not the Horde, he is its Warchief. The same applies now.

"Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death-it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde."

That's your basic oath right there. That's your oath. It binds you to the Horde.

"I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. "
The Person swearing the oath is swearing to the Warchief of the Horde. The last two words will become important with the rest of the oath.

" I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command."

Note the proprietal use of 'My'. Oaths are important, and as a Brit, and therefore a descendant of Celts, Normans and Scandinavians, the wording of an Oath is -Very- important. The wording has to be -precise-. This wording explicitly makes a social contract; 'My' Warchief.
Garrosh broke this social contract when he blatantly started to champion only the Orcs, not the Horde, at that point he was not 'My' Warchief to anyone who was not an Orc. He broke the contract he had made with the Horde, he had basically released every non Orc member of the Horde, from their Oath.

Sylvanas is running -very- dangerously close to repeating that mistake, and invalidating the Blood Oath.

"From this moment until the end of days I live and die - For the Horde!"

Thats the finale. Who is the oath to? The Horde. Not the Warchief. The Horde.

Blizzard clearly meant this, as they have made massive emphasis several times on the subject. The Warchief is -not- the Horde.

The Implication, using how Oaths work in our world, is that the instant one party breaks them, the other party is not bound by them either. I mean that is what an Oath -is-. So the instant a Warchief breaks their side of the bargain, everyone else is released from their promise, also.

Ironically, this is what did for Garrosh, given one of his quotes. He failed to "Serve the Horde" and as such was "Crushed beneath it"

Its actually a pretty enlightened form of government. "You rule us, but if you screw us over, we will just disavow you and remove you"
Derek frigging Proudmoore

How epic would that be?
09/11/2018 13:35Posted by Ygrithe

Traitor to you, at least he has the guts unlike some others, looking at you Baine.


Wrong. If Saurfang had some guts he would've confronted Sylvanas the moment she declared her plans about Darkshore. He didn't, and not only that, he also didn't have the guts to kill Malfurion, which led to Sylvanas burning Teldrassil.

Don't try to make Saurfang look any better, both him and Baine are cut from the same cloth. Both of them deserve to die in a dishonorable way such as being poisoned or stabbed in the back, preferably at players hands, to deny them the thing they care about most, an honorable death.
They better kill off Nathanos if they ever kill Sylvi, can't stand him.
Alonsus Faol - if he would - seems pretty straightforward to me.

I don't think anybody should have a problem with that anyway.
09/11/2018 15:00Posted by Skyrha

Then you're all traitors for betraying Garrosh, you also worked with Alliance in doing so. Not same? Garrosh not sexy enough?


Garrosh itself was a traitor to the Horde, by the moment we kill it if has no longer a legitmely leader of the Horde, we were loyal be killim him and his false Horde.

If the leader of the Horde is the one to harm his own people to be loyal Horde means to kill that leader and anyone who is againts it. I do not betray the Horde, i fight againts an enemy of the Horde, Garrosh, who was a leear before he made actions againts Horde.

We will see if Sylvanas ends like Garrosh and become an enemy of the true Horde.
no one
09/11/2018 09:38Posted by Sigvard
While on the field, however, she lets slip her identity while she is helping those Forsaken who want to return to their families altogether. Sylvanas orders those Forsaken killed, then personally enters the field of the massacre to strike down Calia

What the blazes. That's not how it went! The agreement was that all forsaken and humans would return to their own camps after the meeting but Calia went against this and tried to incite a rebellion in the forsaken, beseeching them to abandon Sylvanas. This prompted Sylvanas to shoot down Calia and the forsaken that tried to turn into traitors. She specifically orders her dark rangers to spare all humans, even those that took part in inciting the rebellion with the sole exception of Calia that she held responsible.
Derek Proudmoore.

He is noble, he is most likely educated in leading.

But sadly best chamces has Calia. But she has no potential for conflict. And readind BtS she obviously is stupid.

Also a city council might do, sadly there is no city anymore.

I doubt both, Sylvanas and Nathanos, will die tough.

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