Anduin's second lie?

Story
Saurfang : I.. Hoped.. You.. Would stop her.

Anduin : I can't. Not alone.

I have yet to see anyone really say this (as far as I am aware) but it is possible that this is Anduin's second (or possibly third) lie he has offered? Him offering Saurfang to "rebuild" the Horde only for him to be used as another way to weaken the Horde and eventually dismantling the Horde?

It isn't like Anduin and the Alliance cannot defeat the Horde, after all the war effort paints a clear picture of who is in the driving seat and this is only backed up by what Nathanos says in 8.1 "The Alliance is tightening their grip. Victory is within their grasp" (or along the lines of that). Not to mention the Alliance has yet to bring in conscription which they didn't need to do against the Burning Legion which the Horde had to. Furthermore it is also stated that more soldiers died at both Lordaeron and the WoT event on the Horde side than on the Alliance side. This is all before Saurfang even does anything beyond kill a few Dark Rangers in the Swamp of Sorrows.

All this points towards the Horde being in a more dire situation than the Alliance, yet we are lead on to believe that the Alliance is the one struggling through this by Anduin more so than the Horde. So is it possible that the reason why he says this is to manipulate Saurfang? And perhaps the real reason he looks sad, emotional, even guilty is because he is using Saurfangs honor against him to hopefully rip the Horde into 2 different groups before defeating them both just because it would be so much easier to and would come at far less loss of life?

These offers of lies must come out soon, and it fits perfectly in offering Saurfang the lie of getting back the Horde he wants only to be ripped apart in front of him when the Alliance goes back on their word? I am pretty sold on this idea, I doubt it'll actually work but at the very least I still think this is one of the lies.
10/11/2018 16:22Posted by Frozenshadow
Saurfang : I.. Hoped.. You.. Would stop her.

Anduin : I can't. Not alone.


I still firmly believe that Anduin is not talking about a military victory in that scene. Anduin doesn't want to dismantle or crush the Horde. That was never his goal. He wants to remove Sylvanas, however there are plenty of problems.

It was in "Before the Storm" I believe where it was said that Sylvanas was actually pretty well liked amongst the regular Horde members and the rank and file soldiers and grunts. And this is a big difference with Garrosh, and the reason why this conflict is so problematic: If the Alliance kills Sylvanas, another warchief will take her place and Sylvanas will be proven right in the end (to a certain degree but propaganda will do the rest). So the war will just continue. This was basically shown in the "Burning of Teldrassil" were the orcs continued to fire, even though their racial leader told them to stop. Or the new "Terror of Darkshore" cinematic.

So, Anduin needs Saurfang. Not for a greater military purpose, but to win over the hearts and minds of the Horde, so they will start seeing Sylvanas as Garrosh 2.0. And well...Anduin is human. He cannot do this.

In theory however the Alliance could crush the Horde, especially after 8.1. But that's not the goal, and not the "way of the Alliance". And obviously: Yes, this will also reduce the losses of the Alliance. So, maybe it is some manipulation, but really: Anduin is such a good guy, that we wouldn't exploit someone like Saurfang.

(And I know that this is far too complex for Blizzards level of writing.)
What was his first lie?
10/11/2018 16:52Posted by Keydiam
I still firmly believe that Anduin is not talking about a military victory in that scene. Anduin doesn't want to dismantle or crush the Horde. That was never his goal. He wants to remove Sylvanas, however there are plenty of problems.


Probably this actually, perhaps I just want to see the Alliance take a darker approach to this war xd.

10/11/2018 17:13Posted by Aldith
What was his first lie?


Something between between the Emerald Nightmare raid and 7.3.5 Silithus questing. It is all down to theory at this point and what it could be.

My chips are on that the Burning Legion isn't defeated by it could be anyone's guess at this point.
People are still clinging onto this dead theory, eh?

The High-King's Light-infused bones literally hurt whenever he is about to do anything bad, and lying is bad. Did Anduin complain about bone pain recently? No? Thought so. Then there's nothing to discuss.
10/11/2018 17:42Posted by Arctur
People are still clinging onto this dead theory, eh?

The High-King's Light-infused bones literally hurt whenever he is about to do anything bad, and lying is bad. Did Anduin complain about bone pain recently? No? Thought so. Then there's nothing to discuss.


Well, he has already said 1 lie apparently and his bones did not hurt then. But I didn't realize we are continuously getting health updates about Anduin so my bad xddddd
10/11/2018 17:44Posted by Frozenshadow
he has already said 1 lie apparently


And what would that lie be?
10/11/2018 17:47Posted by Arctur
10/11/2018 17:44Posted by Frozenshadow
he has already said 1 lie apparently


And what would that lie be?


“Only one of us wanted this war”
10/11/2018 17:47Posted by Arctur
And what would that lie be?


It is a mystery currently. Like I said before it happens sometime between the Emerald Nightmare raid and 7.3.5 Silithus questing. The Orge journal states that the first lie has already been told.
10/11/2018 17:57Posted by Koldan
“Only one of us wanted this war”


Anduin "My dad was a warmonger but I turned him into a pacifist" Wrynn certainly didn't want war.

10/11/2018 17:58Posted by Frozenshadow
The Orge journal states that the first lie has already been told.


Surely you do not expect me to take the work of that mad ogre as any form of evidence?
10/11/2018 18:05Posted by Arctur
Surely you do not expect me to take the work of that mad ogre as any form of evidence?


Well, when you put it like that.. xd
Interesting theory OP, but to be honest its pretty doubtful that they make Anduin a manipulating character. I mean it would be interesting, thats for sure, but considering his writers, it will be more likely that if he is manipulating Saurfang, its gonna get some nice excuse, like Old Gods told him, Shaw told him, someone hit him on the head with a bottle, and thats why he did what he did.

Probably this actually, perhaps I just want to see the Alliance take a darker approach to this war xd.


What i want to see is some other races opinions about the whole Alliance. You know the whole 'what it means to be the Horde', but with the different questions, like what the Night elves/Draenai/Dwarfes etc. what means for them, to be in the Alliance? Why is it important to them, what is their idea of the 'Alliance'?

But it seems the story writers are only capable of visiting these questions, if there is an internal conflict with the leader. It doesn't need to be an internal conflict to visit these questions to be honest, a war with the other factions is also a good time.

I'd take a darker Alliance as an enemy, if it makes them more interesting than "good guys on a rainbow pony and frienship".

10/11/2018 17:42Posted by Arctur
The High-King's Light-infused bones literally hurt whenever he is about to do anything bad, and lying is bad. Did Anduin complain about bone pain recently? No? Thought so. Then there's nothing to discuss.


Isn't it could be that he thinks he is doing it for the greater good, therefore his boneache doesn't trigger?

I mean it could be similar with the Scarlet Crusade, they did horrible things, and the Light didnt abadon them because they thought what they doing are for the good of all.
10/11/2018 17:42Posted by Arctur
People are still clinging onto this dead theory, eh?

The High-King's Light-infused bones literally hurt whenever he is about to do anything bad, and lying is bad. Did Anduin complain about bone pain recently? No? Thought so. Then there's nothing to discuss.

Do you expect Anduin to report all sorts of pain he experiences?

Arctur is partially right though, the theory is pointless. The Nightmare is a Void-product, and the Void has never told the whole truth. There's no reason to think that Il'gynoth is not doing the same, so I wonder why we trust his words.
10/11/2018 18:27Posted by Theronarum
Do you expect Anduin to report all sorts of pain he experiences?


He is the High-King, the central Alliance character, each pain he experiences is much more worthy of screentime than the other Alliance leaders.
10/11/2018 18:27Posted by Theronarum
10/11/2018 17:42Posted by Arctur
People are still clinging onto this dead theory, eh?

The High-King's Light-infused bones literally hurt whenever he is about to do anything bad, and lying is bad. Did Anduin complain about bone pain recently? No? Thought so. Then there's nothing to discuss.

Do you expect Anduin to report all sorts of pain he experiences?

Arctur is partially right though, the theory is pointless. The Nightmare is a Void-product, and the Void has never told the whole truth. There's no reason to think that Il'gynoth is not doing the same, so I wonder why we trust his words.


On the other end the void doesnt really actively lie. They do have a hang to tell self-fullfilling prophecies or talking so that multiple way can fullfill the prophecy, but they dont really lie.
So the three lies are still a thing. In time we get even more of those Ogre-prophecies realized. Even the prophecies of that tree in the nightmare a recoming still true f.e. the drowning in the circle of stars will happen with the dagger. Because she us the circle of stars (or alteast Nzoth calls her that way). But as I remember the three lies are not bound to the boyking

Dat blade has shiny eye. Always watchin us. Why you no see it?

Three lies. Da first one been told.

Bound by dat throne? No. Free. Free! <--- thats the first lie

Da next gonna come soon. Maybe dey see dis one.

But on the other hand Yl ginoths tells:

The boy-king serves at the master's table. Three lies will he offer you.

He offer us.

Seems that Yl ginoth and Ogmot are refering at two different sets of 3 lies, because I cant remember Anduin telling that Sargeras or the lich king is bound by his throne.
I remembered now.
The first lie was that when Anduin was giving a speech that they have defeated the burning legion.

The second one is "Only one of us wanted this war"
11/11/2018 03:43Posted by Xiaopaw
On the other end the void doesnt really actively lie.

They tell half-truths (https://wow.gamepedia.com/A_Vessel_Made_Ready) so I wonder why anyone would blindly trust some Nightmare-creature. Yogg-Saron also said something along the lines of how everyone would betray me, and that didn't work out.

11/11/2018 03:43Posted by Xiaopaw
In time we get even more of those Ogre-prophecies realized.

Yeah, let's trust an Ogre who has been describing things he saw in his dreams...

the Void never tells the whole truth. The Nightmare is a product of the Void. To trust the judgement of those beings is foolish, they've been suggesting that the Void has warped the minds of literally anyone but there's no reason to think that.
They tell half-truths

To be precise they tell possible futures so to while to us they're mostly half-truths to the creatures of the void they are possible truths.

"The Light seeks one path and shuns all others as lies. The Shadow seeks every possible path and sees them all as truth."

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/21061014/new-audio-drama-a-thousand-years-of-war-the-story-of-alleria-turalyon
11/11/2018 09:50Posted by Aldith
To be precise they tell possible futures so to while to us they're mostly half-truths to the creatures of the void they are possible truths.

Yes, but that won't make any difference. Who says that Il'gynoth isn't talking about a possibility that Anduin will tell three lies, and will "serve at the master's table"?
11/11/2018 09:44Posted by Theronarum
the Void never tells the whole truth. The Nightmare is a product of the Void. To trust the judgement of those beings is foolish, they've been suggesting that the Void has warped the minds of literally anyone but there's no reason to think that.


But we shouldnt discard them. We should atleast have an eye on them.
And some of this mad ogres vision came true.

And mad people give the best prophecies. Wasnt there a culture that believed that mad people are touched by their gods and are speakers/oracles for them?

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