is horde a joke?

General
12/11/2018 08:34Posted by Naeya
The only reason any race is capable of accomplishing anything is because and when the story wills it.

it's not based in any way or fashion on formerly established potential, capabilities, displays and feats, plausibility, logic, or even remote realism.

That's .... Basically Warcraft since forever?

The horde isn't a joke. The writing is - always has been.


Good Lord, I cannot like this post enough.

WoW lore has been a joke for quite some time now because the writers don't believe in grounding the story in it's past lore. They say they do it because they don't want to be contrained by the lore, but either they never actually went to an English class or they never truly paid attention. The constraints are supposed to be there to be transcended. That's not only what makes a story a story - it's what makes a story exciting!

It works especially poorly in the case of BFA because it's a case of pitting two groups that are heavily invested in their own camps against each other and making one side lose and one side win. But the thing is that because the writing is 100% rule-of-cool with 0% rooting in logic as according to the lore (and also because of a complete lack of information on important factors, such as populations and army sizes, which is solely neccesary for their rule-of-cool style) anything they do feels cheap. Like a bone tossed to one side at the expense of the other.

Now, that's not to say that rule-of-cool storytelling never works (it has worked well for a lot of the past stories in WoW), but it depends on the kind of story you're trying to tell, and it definitely doesn't fit BFA. If Blizzard wants to fix this, they have to start putting roots in for their lore to make sense. Population numbers, army sizes, something akin to powerlevels for each character, that kind of thing - and then they have to actually stick with them and play the story out as it would most logically play out, rather than having a few cool ideas and bending the story to fit their needs.
12/11/2018 09:07Posted by Varanesh
Let Sylvanas alone! Right now!!!


Yikes
12/11/2018 08:49Posted by Friscie
Alliance isnt pure good good and horde isnt pure evil.


I will be so bold and say that a faction who commits genocide is pretty much pure evil. Or comes so close to it that there's only a minimal difference.
12/11/2018 01:09Posted by Drekhan
Good will always win againts evil... Get over it...


I mean if that would be true every old gods would be exterminated.
12/11/2018 09:05Posted by Savoren
12/11/2018 00:33Posted by Leymaiden

But at least we get to slap Jaina a little come next siege!


Which is nowhere near enough, we should kill that ugly hag for good.


She's not even old enough to qualify for a hag at her 30s.
Khadgar is at his 40s.

Both of them are depicted as stronger than Thalyssra's years and years of knowledge and Rommath learning on the side of Kael'Thas.

But "MUH HORDE BIAS" is a thing apparently, despite the Alliance hogging the magistry spotlight over and over again.

The Horde doesn't even have a notable warlock anymore. Orcs, the race which literally brought the practice into this world doesn't have any prodigy into the dark arts which actively participates into the war.
12/11/2018 00:26Posted by Norez
as a horde player i am actually dissapointed again..

- alliance easily gets into undercity and almost kills slyvanas and everyone present beacuse of the wrathgate incident
- alliance gets into the mayor horde city Ogrimmar in the raid agains garrosh, proabbly couldve killed all horde leaders again..
- now the attack on zuldazar...

i mean... i they got into ogrimar for !@#$s sake... a horde capital... has the horde no honour... the cutsene after the defeat of garroth was like the horde leaders were the kids fighting among demselfs, so jaina went and told "daddy" varian and the has like : stop with your fighting and then just left....lol

also , wasnt Zuldazar the pinnacle of the troll civilization or something...what a %^-*ing joke... i mean night elfs were surprised...thats why i get it, they lost...but undercity...lul. this whole thing is just a joke.. why doesnt the alliance just storm thundebluff next, then silvermoon and so on and its GG for the horde...

i understand if horde did something like this it would be a bloodbath, if it wasnt i would be dissapointed. Sorry, just needed to vent a little :(

PS: im not a native english speaker, if its unreadeble for you, move on.


On the other Hand tbe Alliane is boring. They have humans, smaler humans with beard. Even smaler humans. Humans with angerment issues and the boring elves. Also some aliens wich are human. The horde has conflict, has issues, has character. Alliance is a monolithic block.
12/11/2018 09:36Posted by Keydiam
12/11/2018 08:49Posted by Friscie
Alliance isnt pure good good and horde isnt pure evil.


I will be so bold and say that a faction who commits genocide is pretty much pure evil. Or comes so close to it that there's only a minimal difference.

Both factions have done it almost evry race has.

Both have done alot of bad Things
12/11/2018 09:27Posted by Zestyzanzil
12/11/2018 08:34Posted by Naeya
The only reason any race is capable of accomplishing anything is because and when the story wills it.

it's not based in any way or fashion on formerly established potential, capabilities, displays and feats, plausibility, logic, or even remote realism.

That's .... Basically Warcraft since forever?

The horde isn't a joke. The writing is - always has been.


Good Lord, I cannot like this post enough.

WoW lore has been a joke for quite some time now because the writers don't believe in grounding the story in it's past lore. They say they do it because they don't want to be contrained by the lore, but either they never actually went to an English class or they never truly paid attention. The constraints are supposed to be there to be transcended. That's not only what makes a story a story - it's what makes a story exciting!

It works especially poorly in the case of BFA because it's a case of pitting two groups that are heavily invested in their own camps against each other and making one side lose and one side win. But the thing is that because the writing is 100% rule-of-cool with 0% rooting in logic as according to the lore (and also because of a complete lack of information on important factors, such as populations and army sizes, which is solely neccesary for their rule-of-cool style) anything they do feels cheap. Like a bone tossed to one side at the expense of the other.

Now, that's not to say that rule-of-cool storytelling never works (it has worked well for a lot of the past stories in WoW), but it depends on the kind of story you're trying to tell, and it definitely doesn't fit BFA. If Blizzard wants to fix this, they have to start putting roots in for their lore to make sense. Population numbers, army sizes, something akin to powerlevels for each character, that kind of thing - and then they have to actually stick with them and play the story out as it would most logically play out, rather than having a few cool ideas and bending the story to fit their needs.


Really well written! I think this explain what alot of players are feeling without understanding the reason behind it.
12/11/2018 09:27Posted by Zestyzanzil
Good Lord, I cannot like this post enough.

WoW lore has been a joke for quite some time now because the writers don't believe in grounding the story in it's past lore. They say they do it because they don't want to be contrained by the lore, but either they never actually went to an English class or they never truly paid attention. The constraints are supposed to be there to be transcended. That's not only what makes a story a story - it's what makes a story exciting!

It works especially poorly in the case of BFA because it's a case of pitting two groups that are heavily invested in their own camps against each other and making one side lose and one side win. But the thing is that because the writing is 100% rule-of-cool with 0% rooting in logic as according to the lore (and also because of a complete lack of information on important factors, such as populations and army sizes, which is solely neccesary for their rule-of-cool style) anything they do feels cheap. Like a bone tossed to one side at the expense of the other.

Now, that's not to say that rule-of-cool storytelling never works (it has worked well for a lot of the past stories in WoW), but it depends on the kind of story you're trying to tell, and it definitely doesn't fit BFA. If Blizzard wants to fix this, they have to start putting roots in for their lore to make sense. Population numbers, army sizes, something akin to powerlevels for each character, that kind of thing - and then they have to actually stick with them and play the story out as it would most logically play out, rather than having a few cool ideas and bending the story to fit their needs.


I agree with you. If the story was well written, with some realistic components, with things and thoughts and situations to which every player can identify to, everyone would win. What you call "rule-of-cool" should be used from time to time to change the pace of the story, and that's about it. Making it baseline is a big mistake for an RPG audience.
12/11/2018 08:53Posted by Friscie
12/11/2018 05:51Posted by Hunteresa
...

Let the Alliance and Horde switch racials and let's see how many top guilds the horde will have left in 3 2 1. Lol, these are not horde loyalist, these guilds are there bc more DPS due to racial stacking of some very very very balanced Horde racials.


Method has said its more for recruitment Pool being bigger and for alot Alliance has better racials dps wise and for zul racial is worse then massdispel and dwarfs can remove mechanic in same vein.

And difference isnt so large 1is easy mode like some think.


More pool to choose from since everyone and their grandmother that wants to progress switched to horde beginning in Cata where horde did 6% more DPS compared to the Alliance which isn't a "minimal advantage". Horde players can like your comment all they like but facts are facts. Remember when humans were once relevant for their racial and how every pvper and their mother played a human? This is now the situation but instead of PVP its PVE.
12/11/2018 12:48Posted by Hunteresa
Remember when humans were once relevant for their racial and how every pvper and their mother played a human? This is now the situation but instead of PVP its PVE.


Remember when the Alliance had all the advantages in PvE in TBC and the Horde still got the world firsts regardless when its population was already mostly composed of Blood Elves who had no relevant racial whatsoever? Not even a 1% bonus. And almost no one played Trolls despite their numerical advantage.
12/11/2018 11:14Posted by Leymaiden

She's not even old enough to qualify for a hag at her 30s.


"Old woman" is one of the meanings of hag, but it's not the only one, and definitely not the meaning I went for when mentioning Jaina Plotarmoore.

12/11/2018 11:14Posted by Leymaiden

Both of them are depicted as stronger than Thalyssra's years and years of knowledge and Rommath learning on the side of Kael'Thas.

But "MUH HORDE BIAS" is a thing apparently, despite the Alliance hogging the magistry spotlight over and over again.


Completely agreed, this is something that bothers me as well. Though it's not the entire Alliance in general, rather, just humans and humans alone. It's not limited to magic either, same is done for nearly every area. Humans are described as a "jack of all trades, king of none" race. They branch out to many areas, but master none of those. But especially lately, writers are trying to peddle them as if they are the best at anything they do.
Horde: FOR THE HORDE

Alliance: FOR THE HORSE
12/11/2018 17:37Posted by Shunka
Horde: FOR THE HORDE

Alliance: FOR THE HORSE


A horse one of the races of the Alliance.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incitatus
12/11/2018 19:51Posted by Kilean
12/11/2018 17:37Posted by Shunka
Horde: FOR THE HORDE

Alliance: FOR THE HORSE


A horse one of the races of the Alliance.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incitatus


Back to ck2 with you!
12/11/2018 12:48Posted by Hunteresa
12/11/2018 08:53Posted by Friscie
...

Method has said its more for recruitment Pool being bigger and for alot Alliance has better racials dps wise and for zul racial is worse then massdispel and dwarfs can remove mechanic in same vein.

And difference isnt so large 1is easy mode like some think.


More pool to choose from since everyone and their grandmother that wants to progress switched to horde beginning in Cata where horde did 6% more DPS compared to the Alliance which isn't a "minimal advantage". Horde players can like your comment all they like but facts are facts. Remember when humans were once relevant for their racial and how every pvper and their mother played a human? This is now the situation but instead of PVP its PVE.


That is not entirely true though, depends on the region. The Oceanic raiding scene seems to be mainly Alliance populated. The fact is that during that time the top guilds did shift over to Horde which caused the PvE scene to center around Horde. By the time we got to Legion the problem wasn't the racials, merely the fact that the Horde PvE community is just so much larger that it is easier to find decent recruits.

Alliance racials still provide steady DPS, and their recent racials seem to indicate that Blizzard is aiming to give burst options for Alliance as well (Dark Iron racial, Void Elf racial(albeit this one isn't too controlled.) I'd even count LF Draenei racial here as well, compared to the horde racial options we were getting with Allied races.)

This is a problem Blizzard cannot solve in the short term. Player perception is already preventing people from seeing how balanced racials are now, compared to how it was previously. I am not sure however why it took them so long to nerf Berzerking, since it was an obvious, major outlier.
WoW!

Another plazer who takes the game cutscenes and idle game difficultz open world as a lore.

Alliance managed to get into OG thanks to a civil war. Garrosh became a 3rd faction, and sieged by both horde and alliance.

The Undercity lost was a plan of Sylvanas.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/story/short-story/a-good-war
Read this novel.
In chapter one Sylvanas explains Garrosh how weakened the Horde is.

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