Pet Peeve #36: The Peeve is Always Right

Argent Dawn
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Monks were never a Pandaren thing prior to Mists of Pandaria, so I think the best way to preserve the class fantasy is to remove all Monks except Pandaren, all Pandaren that aren't Monks, and lock them into Brewmaster spec.

We should also focus the Pandaren culture and story on how they are all drunks who like to hit people with sticks, as obviously developing things beyond their WarCraft 3 appearances was a mistake.
RPG Pandaren are best pandaren!!!
07/11/2018 03:17Posted by Mithralles
RPG Pandaren are best pandaren!!!

No pandaren is best pandaren, my friend.
What's wrong with Pandaren, you damn insomniac?
06/11/2018 16:21Posted by Lilue
Monks should be Pandaren only.

No never.
07/11/2018 03:08Posted by Mithralles
Just pointing out that "Chi", or the fifth element, or Spirit, is also a universal force.

So that monk(-like) classes make as much sense across the board as Light and Void-based classes.

Better would be if I could use monk abilities based on other Wild Gods for Mith, and Loa for trolls etc and Light/whatever for Light/whatever using races.


Chi as spirit is precisely why I limited by ideal monk races as i did. All of them have shaman and/or druid as a playable class (bar humans) so harnessing spiritual power is something they can buy into. It makes it a more comfortable fit.

Races that have no playable "spirit" classes yet can be monks (humans are a problem, I know I know, maybe swap them for worgen) is why it's jarring for me. On one hand these races show no aptitude for harnessing the "life force" of Azeroth or inclination to do it. Yet with monk, suddenly they can? How is it they can be trained to utilise Chi, yet cannot be trained to utilise Spirit and become a shaman, given they are apparently the same force?

Its inconsistent and muddies the monk class theme as I mentioned previously where despite their clear thematic abilities and such, the criteria to wield these powers is largely "can punch". Strangely this doesn't happen for shaman and druids, as if the "life force" they wield is somehow more exclusive than what the monks utilise, except apparently it's the same thing/similar thing. So why can't Orcs be druids?

The answer is in their excitement to ensure monks actually begin to populate the server blizzard blew to pieces the carefully crafted theme of the class and opened it to all and sundry, which they now have to keep up.

I stand by my original list though- night elves were ancient allies of pandaren and given modern nelf worship nature over arcane, it makes sense they could adopt the monk path. They are patient, agile and have a connection with the land and life. Great fit. Remove their "natural ties" and no so much. This is why Nightborne monks and blood elf monks are bizarre to me. This is why despite their bulk, I think Tauren are good monk fits, they are simple, somewhat ascetic, connected with life in a deep way and tend to fit using simple weapons/minimum rather than elaborate kits. The fact they're huge just requires one to accept that not all monk PCs have quite literally Spiderman levels of agility. Rather Tauren monks are quick as far as Tauren go, but in probable likelihood they can't somersault twenty times before performing a triple flip and landing on one hand. What they can do however is shrug off blows rather than dodge them, combining their natural stamina with monk conditioning to essentially "feel no pain" before striking back using their own strength, plus that of their foe. This is headcanon, but most monks on other races require headcanon to flesh out blizzards paltry offerings as to "how" anyway.

I get the whole "there's always an exception, a Nightborne who would be open to this path" argument. As said however, why does this not extend to other classes? Why can't exception-to-the-rule humans be shaman? Or Orcs druids? It's a case of "generalised racial traits dictate classes" for all classes except monk imo. Gnomes are curious enough to contemplate studying a monk pathway, but somehow not curious enough to study Shamanism or druidism, despite the fact all three classes require a connection with "spirit" which is arguably outside of the comfort zone of the race. Yet they can be monks, but not the others. Why?

Monk is just handed out on back of cereal packets, only thing limiting it being largely OOC class balance between factions. It's really annoying that a class with such a well designed class fantasy/lore has it undermined from the word go by it being diluted to just about every race. Chi magic doesn't really seem so special if everyone can technically be taught it. Yet Shamanism and druidism require "something more" beyond teaching despite the essential magics (in blizzards words) being the same thing across cases.
This debate is a peeve.
We need a random lore debate thread.
07/11/2018 02:49Posted by Mithralles
By that logic, Paladin is too, remember the Tauren Paladins in game are not depicted as Tauren Sunwalkers or anything, they are -Paladins-, they are a member of the premier Paladin organisation, they use Light-based abilities (not sun-based), they talk about the Light (not Sun) and they act like Paladins, not Sunwalkers.


To be fair, one of the few better things about this expansion is that it is slowly taking things away from Legion's #classfantasy and giving a little nod to the differences in racial theme.

In the Arathi warfront, the sunwalkers there have renamed and reanimated seals as well as a nifty little sun totem.

The peeve of this is the knowledge that the actual playable version will never see these but oh well.
People being rude.
Well even Metzen was disgruntled that Tauren paladins were added haha. Sunwalker have the potential to work but it always appears rather half arsed in game.

I think what it boils down to is you can't look at an in game model and read a wiki and assume that every character is that exact, cardboard cut out build. I'd agree that a Tauren built like an ingame model would seem cumbersome and probably would have to go the brewmaster class if be a monk at all. But there's nothing to say a Tauren can't be leaner or smaller as are people in real life.
A tauren can be agile and run circles around another Tauren but there is a weakness to other races. No matter how agile they are after all, They are a bigger target for smaller races and an elf would be hard for a Tauren to hit regardless of their speed if the elf is also fast. With chi behind it, I don't think physical muscle mass has the dominant influence on the hit, rather that persons mastery of chi? As someone also mentioned, there are loads of weaknesses. No one likes an all powerful, weakness free character. It's boring as anything.

And if we are talking realism,I've never seen a fat panda do a back flip in real life either or any bear species. They can run fast but agile is never a term used for any bear. I'm very pro-realism in rp myself and guilty of wrinkling my nose at some mount choices or people hopping around like a ballerina in full plate armor, but when we are taking physics and magic we have to accept that realism doesn't always apply to fictional magical characters. Warcraft pandaaren are obviously a far cry from the cumbersome Chinese ones of real life that pee on themselves and sit on their own offspring!
As someone who plays a non-Pandaren Monk, saying that Monks SHOULD only be available to Pandaren and not the other races is like saying that I shouldn't be able to learn martial arts in real life because I'm not part of the culture it originated from, at least that's how I see it. Chi is an essence in all of us that can be unlocked and mastered, so what's stopping the other races from becoming a Monk? Nothing. Because it's something that can be taught and something that you can train to become.

The only thing that stops you from becoming a Monk is yourself. Not your tiny short legs like a Gnome, not your large hulking body like a Tauren, but your mindset. Becoming a Monk is all about your core and your mind, it's got nothing to do with what your race is capable of or not capable of, so I've always found the argument of 'only Pandaren should be monks' daft.

If that's the case, Pandaren should ONLY be Monks because let's say for instance, Mages are better suited for the Elves, or perhaps Warriors are better suited for Orcs and Tauren, that wouldn't be quite fair, would it? Anyone can become a Monk, because it's not restricted to whether or not you can conjure magic, or whether or not the Light burns bright within you, it's all about your mentality and your spirit, not how you physically look.

Also if you go out of your way to ignore people that aren't living up to your 'class fantasy' for example, a Night Elf monk like myself, that's your own problem.
So when did Artriel convert from Elune to Celestial worship?
07/11/2018 12:37Posted by Elenthas
So when did Artriel convert from Elune to Celestial worship?


She doesn't have to?

The night elves of all people probably see the celestials as wild gods, they can more then likely worship them in the same way they worship Malorne or Avianna yet still hold true to Elune.

Unless you're telling me night elf druid don't worship Elune anymore?
07/11/2018 12:52Posted by Croecell
Unless you're telling me night elf druid don't worship Elune anymore?

[/quote]

The way Malfurion talked about her ("If your endless vigil has hardened you, my love, it must be part of your goddess' plan.") that's certainly not unlikely.
07/11/2018 12:59Posted by Elenthas
The way Malfurion talked about her ("If your endless vigil has hardened you, my love, it must be part of your goddess' plan.") that's certainly not unlikely.


Wow, now there's an awkward conversation.

"Hey, Cenarius, did you know your student has been badmouthing you mum?"
07/11/2018 12:37Posted by Elenthas
So when did Artriel convert from Elune to Celestial worship?

Why does Artriel have to cease worshipping Elune to respect the Celestial's and their teachings? No where does it state that to become a Monk one must abandon the deity they worship and believe in. She's still able to acknowledge the Celestials and their teachings without dropping everything that Elune has taught her.

Again, that's like saying that for me to learn martial arts in real life, I would have to become a Buddhist, because Buddhist monks learn Kung Fu. That’s where the inspiration for Pandaren comes from. But I don’t have to be a Buddhist to learn kung fu. I can appreciate their teachings, their philosophies and understand their way of life whilst still worshipping or appreciating another path.
07/11/2018 04:51Posted by Mithralles
What's wrong with Pandaren, you damn insomniac?

I'll have you know I just slept a fine several hours and only woke up eight times!!

I just personally don't like them 8(
Kung fu Pandas lol.
This is where Blizzard had the idea for Pandaren and monks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4B0WrJuadA.
07/11/2018 03:16Posted by Sanara
Monks were never a Pandaren thing prior to Mists of Pandaria, so I think the best way to preserve the class fantasy is to remove all Monks except Pandaren, all Pandaren that aren't Monks, and lock them into Brewmaster spec.

We should also focus the Pandaren culture and story on how they are all drunks who like to


07/11/2018 13:12Posted by Artriel
07/11/2018 12:37Posted by Elenthas
So when did Artriel convert from Elune to Celestial worship?

Why does Artriel have to cease worshipping Elune to respect the Celestial's and their teachings? No where does it state that to become a Monk one must abandon the deity they worship and believe in. She's still able to acknowledge the Celestials and their teachings without dropping everything that Elune has taught her.

Again, that's like saying that for me to learn martial arts in real life, I would have to become a Buddhist, because Buddhist monks learn Kung Fu. That’s where the inspiration for Pandaren comes from. But I don’t have to be a Buddhist to learn kung fu. I can appreciate their teachings, their philosophies and understand their way of life whilst still worshipping or appreciating another path.


That is right, brother. Christiandom must adopt the Asian martial arts for their own, that the infidel, the heretic and the apostate fall even more swiftly.

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