M+ is drowning, how do we save it?

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I have an idea.

Let tanks be able to tank.
Let healers be able to heal.
Let more DPS be able to provide meaningful contribution other than DH/Rogue/Mage.

The kiting fest that is the current meta is really annoying and is not gameplay that is in line with the roles of each person. Sure the reward for really high keys is satisfying, but the way to get there cheapens the experience.
Not really much to say on the subject, but just wanted to let anyone who didn't see the Q&A (more specifically those blaming raider.io for not being able to get groups) that they are planning on linking key progression to your armory. Thus, all runs will have a record, raider.io will hopefully be able to use that to give a fairer score for those on high population realms.

Personally that was my only issue with the addon, anything else was people just wanting to "skip" steps. You're not going to be declined from a group because you only did a +9 in time and not +10, that's enough to prove you can manage it, u just can't expect someone to let u join a +8 when you haven't even attempted a +2.
Hard =! Fun .
For me thats the case , i stopped doing them once i reached 1.1k io since there is no point in doing highter score other than securing my spot for future patches for +15 but we are long way till then.

Its just exhausting than fun , you have to interrupt this dispell this pull only 3-4 mobs 1 mistake and the whole run is ruined.

In legion you could pull 10+ mobs at the same time and have some fun , not worrying about some shady casts going off and killing your whole group , mobs buffing and healing each other.

Why do M+ trash has to have boss mechanics ? Its just booring.
Probably because the dungeons have awful design in BFA, bad fps and a tiny player pool if you're alliance.
I bit the bullet tonight and did the quest for 4 mythic dungeons with a friend (we are the only two people active in our guild right now).

We did all four of them on +5 and +6.
It all went fine and we finished them all in time without huge problems.
But my feeling after doing them was that there is too much trash to go through, it gets exhausting after a while.
My friend even pointed out one time that she thought we were on the last boss but we were actually only on the second one lol, I can't remember wich dungeon it was tho.

This experience didn't really give me an incentive to do more mythic+.
If they were to change it a bit and deleted some of the trash and make it more streamlined i would probobly give it another shot.

Would removing trash be a bad thing for you hardcore mythic people or would you guys think that would be a good change?
05/11/2018 02:23Posted by Uldurin
My friend even pointed out one time that she thought we were on the last boss but we were actually only on the second one lol, I can't remember wich dungeon it was tho.


Gonna take a guess here and say it was MOTHERLODE! :P That one has double the mobs of most of the other dungeons xD

05/11/2018 02:23Posted by Uldurin
Would removing trash be a bad thing for you hardcore mythic people or would you guys think that would be a good change?


I think the trash was added due to people saying there wasn't a lot of it in Legion, not too sure though, so don't Quote me on it :P
05/11/2018 02:27Posted by Shortbolts
05/11/2018 02:23Posted by Uldurin
My friend even pointed out one time that she thought we were on the last boss but we were actually only on the second one lol, I can't remember wich dungeon it was tho.


Gonna take a guess here and say it was MOTHERLODE! :P That one has double the mobs of most of the other dungeons xD

05/11/2018 02:23Posted by Uldurin
Would removing trash be a bad thing for you hardcore mythic people or would you guys think that would be a good change?


I think the trash was added due to people saying there wasn't a lot of it in Legion, not too sure though, so don't Quote me on it :P


Yes it is very possible it was motherlode lol!
Well at least now i can say i have tried it, good enough for me :D
Now i can only hope others agree and they lighten up the trash density and i might give it a revisit :)
I do a lot less mythic + now than I did a mere few weeks ago.

But it's just that period of time it's the lul while we wait for new content.
Just raid lol.
if i want to do timed content i will be better of in d3 there i can do it solo if that's my thing and i will not forced to play whit mostly troll`s.
i) Finding pick-up-groups is hard, thanks to a lack of Dungeon Finder support and the broken RIO add-on which unfortunately became popular by a large part of the community.

ii) There's a lot of toxicity in M+ PuGs. If I make one bad pull as a tank, I get flamed by a bunch of punks.

iii) Repeat-content. Eventually doing the same dungeon over and over just for the chance of some ilvl upgrades, so that you can maybe do some harder bosses in the boring Uldir raid instance, isn't entertaining anymore.
I am not doing a lot of Mythic+ because I don't have people for it, and I don't PuG, so I am a bit screwed. However, I had the same problem during Legion, so that hasn't changed.

I had a goal of focusing on Mythic+ this expansion, but I quickly realized I can't do that without either taking part of a steady team, or start PuG'ing. Just the thought of it demotivated me(steady team would just make me feel bad, like I am leaving people behind, so I am making it hard for myself).

04/11/2018 22:41Posted by Alewin
Honestly I'd like it to die. Having m+ award raid-equivalent gear is making raiders feel like they absolutely have to grind m+...


Selfish crap. Seriously.

You do realize a lot of people have Mythic+ as their endgame? Maybe we should remove raids and make Mythic+ the only endgame? How does that sound to you...?
Legion trash amount was optimal tbh. Its just kept you engaged for the right amount of time. It's dull when you are already bored and it's still some time until the 1st boss.
Just let it die. M+ was fun in Legion because it was something new. Now it's just a license for blizzard to not make any new content because m+ scale infinitely.
05/11/2018 02:23Posted by Uldurin
Would removing trash be a bad thing for you hardcore mythic people or would you guys think that would be a good change?


I'm not hardcore, but I like them - and yes, I too think the amounts of trash can be exhausting, especially in some dungeons (looking at you, Motherlode). It doesn't even add to the difficulty, since in many cases it's just the same kind of it.

Since my guild doesn't do m+ much, for a couple of weeks I decided to just use the group finder for it. I started from @400 score, since I tend to do them in the weekend and I'm on a populated server, I applied to keys close to my score (even if I had done higher, just not recorded), and I'm now 800 score. I did have to make some time to do them on wednesday/thursday though (bit hard, since my guild raids on those days). This week I even got my weekly done in a pug - that I joined when the key was +7 and we just upgraded it first to 8, then to 10, then did the 10. Still, at the 3rd dungeon I was already tired, 4 in a row must be pretty meh.
04/11/2018 22:52Posted by Destruct
04/11/2018 22:48Posted by Iratu
...

Risk of wasted time.
In other words if you have no score and guild, SCREW YOU! Nobody joins your runs and you won't ever get accepted into theirs. Preach said it right, that thanks to him being in a hardcore guild he doesn't have to worry about spamming M+ for scores. He can never go beyond 500 and still get his 10+ easily done.


Well, no. Just like most posters nowadays, you seem to jump to the worst possible conclusion just so you can get mad.

All I am saying is that there _is_ in fact a risk associated with joining someone with a low score, even if the key isn't your own. For most people, time for gaming is a limited luxury. We do not want to waste it being frustrated.

Low-score players should just be open and honest both to others and themselves about their level of (in) competence, and mark their keys "chill run" or something similar, to attract players at same level and mindset.
Im about 1.1k rated, i love doing m+ but Id still prefer if they made more karzhan like dingeons, like mecagon thats coming in 8.2 but make it harder and drop some raid equivalent gear.
I really think blizzard is missing a spot with 5 man "raiding" theres a lot of people i lnow that dont do raids just because of the huge time investment with set days and hours.
04/11/2018 22:28Posted by Dallo
First block raider.io.It doesnt work propely,doesn't show your highest keys.People see it and all you do is stand there and keep looking at "declined,declined..."while you queued for a key you already did but of course its not showed on io.

People know that,so they try less and quit/move on to other parts of game.Others follow popular streamers and guilds when it comes to forming a group to do m+.Which is usually monk,dk,rog,dh...Rest is pretty much ignored.Even if you are not doing high keys.

They are blindly following what some people say.This game has gone past the point of saving it.From a game"lets get together and do dungeons/raids/pvp" to show me your io,achiv,ilvl and lastly lets get you trough class check.

What made this game good back in the days was the community,we wanted to get together and PLAY.

Game is in such pathetic state,its sad.

People do job interview ingame now cos all adults now and can't waste time.I always laugh masel out when read all this pure mature guild like wtf another elitist scum who will histerically yell at me any time I don't kick a cast no thank you(or other side of the coin-mommy guilds where they fail to do anything and when you say come on kick a cast she would be like oh me child !@#$ masel couldn't do a thing).

So the thing is community in mass is old(like 90% of people I meet is 20+ at least which is old as hell for 12+ game) and it make them to game rationally, but you can't have fun when do this because fun is irrational thing, even wipe can be fun.
05/11/2018 07:01Posted by Nekra
Im about 1.1k rated, i love doing m+ but Id still prefer if they made more karzhan like dingeons, like mecagon thats coming in 8.2 but make it harder and drop some raid equivalent gear.
I really think blizzard is missing a spot with 5 man "raiding" theres a lot of people i lnow that dont do raids just because of the huge time investment with set days and hours.

Such dungeon without overgearing will take you no less time bruh, and if you could speed run 8 bosses in a hour it's undertuned obviously. 8 bosses= 40 min just for them(no overgear some wipes maybe) and trash between them should be at least hour long which is not that much less than a raid with proper group(and you will need nice 5 man group anyway cos I saw alot of people wipe on sisters in waycrest just because they have no clue about what auras do)
M+ are crap.

Never liked them due to various reasons.

Only reason I do bare minimum effort regarding them is because its raid requirement for guild.

In my opinion blizz should somehow separate them. No idea how or what. Probably impossible.

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