M+ is drowning, how do we save it?

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by reading most of the comments it seems the problem is the community and not the game (m+) itself

be thankfull dungs now have more importance past first month and u can "solo" progress ur char
I'm doing my part by not caring .
They should add rewards other than gear to M+.

Titles/Mogg/Mounts/Pets for high keystones. Things like that would encourage more players to do M+ just like the +15 Artifact skin.

For those who say they can't find a group: Is there not an English speaking community that focuses on doing raids/m+ a bit more relaxed than normal pugs? We got a German Community and Discord called [L]earning by doing, I bet there is something similar for English speakers.
05/11/2018 07:45Posted by Semyaza
For those who say they can't find a group: Is there not an English speaking community that focuses on doing raids/m+ a bit more relaxed than normal pugs? We got a German Community and Discord called [L]earning by doing, I bet there is something similar for English speakers.


Yeah, there's 2 communities that are both pinned to the top of the community page called Calm Keystones. Whenever I feel like doing an M+, I've been able to find a group every time now thanks to this community, and the runs have been great.
I used to love M+ in legion, but not so much in BfA.

My problems are the following:
- The Rewardstructure feels unrewarding -> They are way too hard for what little they give, especially if you aren't lucky with the rng...
- Trash mobs and bosses have way too many annoying mechanics which you can't outgear. In my opinion, M+ difficulty should primarily come from health and damage scaling and less from countless annoying mechanics.
- A lot of melee unfriendly encounters and the state of MM Hunter
- Temple of Sethraliss
I stopped doing M+ purely because of the Rio site. I will most likely never raid/M+ again until it's been removed.
BFA dungeons have been designed with e-sports in mind which turned them into a massive chore. Everything is created to slow down and punish players which results in a boring, frustrating experience that people just give up on.
Everyone has a good point on this. Putting aside the difference in player abilities and attitudes - All I can add from my first steps into BfA M+:

- The rewards are bad. It's bloated mine (and everyone else's) iLvl but left me with poor secondaries. I'd rather have a choice of a few different pieces of loot so I can choose whether to optimise or go for the ilvl. Or lower ilvl gear with better secondaries.

- I happen to play with 4 other friends so if we're all online we don't have to pug. When we do need randomers to fill the group, the choice of classes is severely limited. In the last couple of weeks the only classes we've ever seen in LFG are DH (mostly), Rogue, one hunter and one ele Sham. When I've been offline and they needed to pug a healer, they've only ever found Disc priests.

I think better class balance would be a good start. Having to use more or less the same approach makes it difficult to adjust to the difficulty. We're mostly just having fun playing WoW together again but it's becoming old very quickly due to the lack of pug class compositions available and the feeling that we're unable to roll alts as it feels like the viable pool of classes is so limited.
Before in legion I pugged a lot outside of my normal M+ group, but since my class is out (or I have to sign up for over 2 hours), I am not able to play anymore. I have hovered already a couple of times over the unsub-button. I am kind of only playing this game for M+. I am not sure it is still the sub worth. It was already not balanced in legion, but at least it was 'playable'.
Nothing to save, people who did it for gear already got all the gear so there are less groups.

There is no incentive to do M+ when you are geared, except maybe raider.io score.
So sick of entitled scrubs always expecting to get loot/rewards for free without putting any effort into it. Yeah it sucks to be declined repeatedly but there are ways around it. Every player with a decent score has worked their way to get there, why shouldn’t you? M+ is a lot “harder” in bfa than legion as you can’t just blast your way through anymore. People value their time and as 1 person can completely ruin a key a vetting process is a very necessary evil.
04/11/2018 22:41Posted by Alewin
Honestly I'd like it to die. Having m+ award raid-equivalent gear is making raiders feel like they absolutely have to grind m+... which does not account for things like a life outside WoW. Either we go at it every spare hour, or we feel like we're letting the raid team down.

I guess I'm letting mine down. I don't feel good about it, but I will feel worse about dropping all my other interests in the name of WoW.

Neither option makes me happy.
if they keep it i want m+ to be like wow pvp gear/buff from uldir azerite gear. And raid gear to be worse in it. Then it is Truely a alternate Progression path and not needed for raids.
It's because they removed the legendary system

That in itself gave people incentive to re run M+. Same with AP grinding. Now there's no reason to rerun M+ other than rio score. people cant be bothered with it
The reason I cant bother with M+ atm is the score bs. I dont mind making my own group, but if we have one or two wipes there is always someone leaving cause NO SCORE IF NO TIME OMFG! ... Cba I just do one for weekly and get done with it.
Personally, I dislike M+ because it’s so Diablo-y. I don’t like that in WoW.

I liked the tactical play of using CC to handle incoming damage and loose adds - stuff we did in TBC and Cata Heroics. These speed runs with gigantic pulls and all these extra abilities that are tacked on when going to higher keys makes it feel like an arcade game, not the MMORPG WoW once was.

What I would like is for the AoE abilities to be nerfed across all classes and nerf tank survivability. I’d also like for the mobs to be more advanced in their abilities, so we would actually have to CC them at regular intervals - and keep them CC’d until we could handle their damage.

Will that ever happen? Nope, because Blizzard has decided that 5 man instances should have a fast-paced gameplay, instead of being a slower dungeon-crawl, where we advance with dread for what is coming around the corner.
05/11/2018 12:39Posted by Whitepaw
Personally, I dislike M+ because it’s so Diablo-y. I don’t like that in WoW.

I liked the tactical play of using CC to handle incoming damage and loose adds - stuff we did in TBC and Cata Heroics. These speed runs with gigantic pulls and all these extra abilities that are tacked on when going to higher keys makes it feel like an arcade game, not the MMORPG WoW once was.

What I would like is for the AoE abilities to be nerfed across all classes and nerf tank survivability. I’d also like for the mobs to be more advanced in their abilities, so we would actually have to CC them at regular intervals - and keep them CC’d until we could handle their damage.

Will that ever happen? Nope, because Blizzard has decided that 5 man instances should have a fast-paced gameplay, instead of being a slower dungeon-crawl, where we advance with dread for what is coming around the corner.


Blame ESPORTS for this. Without timers leaderboards would be full of cheese runs, 3 tanks + 2 healers and it would be unwatchable and long.

So you either make it watchable and esportsy, or RPG like crawls (like classic dungeons).

I guess marketing >> game design. Or someone just wanted to make "something like MOBA" because kids like MOBA these days.
You do need CC in m+ - especially after 10+, where you always need to cc the infested trash - but not only there.
Weekly limit

The fact that you can repeatedly spam them to get full mythic raid gear sooner or later in a week is stupid, and yeah its mythic due to all the tf
Honestly, I believe there are 2 reasons for This, first Being that we’ve already Done This in legion, and lets face it, dungeons are more or less reskinned versions of eachother with some variance. Second, We are Being forced to do This content, indirectly. We play the game Cause We enjoy it, and the lack of content has forced us to repeat/do content that we’ve already Done and don’t really want to do. Yes i agree that raider.io etc. ruin certain aspects of the group finding, and I genuinely believe that blizzard needs and will need to revamp the mythic+ system for every expansion
You let it die and join us in the bg's for shenanigans, why do you want to play with people that are playing the system instead of the game anyway?

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