Ninja

Classic Discussion
09/11/2018 10:24Posted by Recollector
If loot trading is in, I will need EVERY SINGLE ITEM.

And I will use the excuse "sorry, I misscliked".

If I will be asked how can I missclik so many times, I will just say that I am drunk.

I will also NOT TRADE any of the items I will win, using the excuse that I am so drunk, I can't see the trading window.

The amount of tickets flowing to Customer Support, if loot trading is in, will be 10 times higher if the loot trading is out, simply because everyone will report everyone.

Basically, loot trading makes ninja-ing items OFFICIAL.

Haha, I'm with you.
09/11/2018 10:24Posted by Recollector
If loot trading is in, I will need EVERY SINGLE ITEM.

And I will use the excuse "sorry, I misscliked".

If I will be asked how can I missclik so many times, I will just say that I am drunk.

I will also NOT TRADE any of the items I will win, using the excuse that I am so drunk, I can't see the trading window.

The amount of tickets flowing to Customer Support, if loot trading is in, will be 10 times higher if the loot trading is out, simply because everyone will report everyone.

Basically, loot trading makes ninja-ing items OFFICIAL.

you don't even need excuse, if someone raises big deal about, just trade him the item and he shuts up and doesn't give a !@#$ after that.
09/11/2018 12:41Posted by Cai
09/11/2018 10:24Posted by Recollector
If loot trading is in, I will need EVERY SINGLE ITEM.

And I will use the excuse "sorry, I misscliked".

If I will be asked how can I missclik so many times, I will just say that I am drunk.

I will also NOT TRADE any of the items I will win, using the excuse that I am so drunk, I can't see the trading window.

The amount of tickets flowing to Customer Support, if loot trading is in, will be 10 times higher if the loot trading is out, simply because everyone will report everyone.

Basically, loot trading makes ninja-ing items OFFICIAL.

you don't even need excuse, if someone raises big deal about, just trade him the item and he shuts up and doesn't give a !@#$ after that.


Yeah, but that will mean that I ninja looted for nothing, and will actually prove that loot trading works.

Nope, I won't trade anything. If anyone is unhappy with me not trading, I will point them to Customer Services and write a ticket.

Ofc, by the time their ticket will get thru, the 2 hours will be gone, and anyway, I will vendor all those items anyway.

Funny thing is...there is no rule that OBLIGE anyone to trade their loot. It is OPTIONAL :)))
they will be put on a blacklist, and will never see group content ever again. That's how a closed server community deals with ninja looters, and it is quite effective.

How is it effective if ninjaing already happened? If anyone cared about some bunch of neckbeards with their blacklists, it would prevent ninja act in the first place.
I feel like the main purpose of these blacklists was to make people who got scammed feel better lol.
There is no 'closed server community'. This is just you and your delusional elitism.
Stop fantasizing and giving contradicting arguments. 'Ninjaing happened even without loot trading so we can allow it, but it never happened because REPUTATION'. What the hell, lol.
Facts are simple, ninjas existed and will exist, and loot trading brings ninjaing at a whole new level, giving ninjas new tools to abuse.
And ALSO allowing trading loot for gold, which happens all the time on retail, and will happen even more often in Classic because no x-realm pugs.
09/11/2018 12:58Posted by Федя
they will be put on a blacklist, and will never see group content ever again. That's how a closed server community deals with ninja looters, and it is quite effective.

How is it effective if ninjaing already happened? If anyone cared about some bunch of neckbeards with their blacklists, it would prevent ninja act in the first place.
I feel like the main purpose of these blacklists was to make people who got scammed feel better lol.
There is no 'closed server community'. This is just you and your delusional elitism.
Stop fantasizing and giving contradicting arguments. 'Ninjaing happened even without loot trading so we can allow it, but it never happened because REPUTATION'. What the hell, lol.
Facts are simple, ninjas existed and will exist, and loot trading brings ninjaing at a whole new level, giving ninjas new tools to abuse.
And ALSO allowing trading loot for gold, which happens all the time on retail, and will happen even more often in Classic because no x-realm pugs.


Since you clearly never played Vanilla, you are assuming things.

Blacklisting in Vanilla was a thing, and it worked.

There was a closed server community, and a player that ninjaed loot once, was blacklisted by pretty much everyone online when his name was announced in chats.

Sure, that didn't stopped him to try again, and even succeed or the second time. But after that, almost everyone had him on the blacklist, and his future on the servers was done.

You clearly have no idea how that worked. Everyone had a friends list, and those friends had also friends lists, and so on. And all those people were in guilds.

Basically, a ninja player name would be almost instantly on most players blacklist.
No, it seems like you're assuming that ninjas are suffering just because you and your friends don't see them anymore lol. There's no way to even know how blacklisting affected them. There's no statistics, no evidence.
It's impossible to know each one of tens of thousands players on the server.
There's no such thing as single big server community, there is always some rivalry between guilds, and a lot of random guildless people, and even different language groups.
I played legit TBC and some Vanilla private servers, not that it matters. One might be 200% hardcore Vanilla player but lack common sense.
09/11/2018 03:08Posted by Федя
Let's bring some loot trade defenders here with their fantasies about Trve Vanilla Community that presumably should magically prevent people from abusing loot trade.
They probably will persuade you that ninja looting never ever happened in Vanilla because Every Player had Reputation or something like that.


Loot trading will actually encourage ninjalooters even more. Why not roll need on everything in a pug and then offer to trade your won item for x amount of gold.
09/11/2018 13:32Posted by Федя
No, it seems like you're assuming that ninjas are suffering just because you and your friends don't see them anymore lol. There's no way to even know how blacklisting affected them. There's no statistics, no evidence.
It's impossible to know each one of tens of thousands players on the server.
There's no such thing as single big server community, there is always some rivalry between guilds, and a lot of random guildless people, and even different language groups.
I played legit TBC and some Vanilla private servers, not that it matters. One might be 200% hardcore Vanilla player but lack common sense.


I played legit TBC and some Vanilla private servers, not that it matters


I played legit TBC and some Vanilla private servers, not that it matters


played legit TBC and some Vanilla private servers, not that it matters


Actually, IT MATTERS. And it proves that you have no idea what you are talking about, because you ADMIT that you never played Vanilla. TBC was NOT Vanilla. Ninja looting was irrelevant in TBC and almost inexistent. It was a mere fraction of ninja looting in Vanilla.

If I tell you that it worked in Vanilla, and it will work in Classic, it is because I KNOW THAT IT WORKED, not because me and my friends are not seeing him anymore and are assuming things.

A ninja would reroll another server, period, unless he enjoyed playing solo.

This is HOW IT WORKED : A group of 5 people, 1 being the ninja dude. The other 4 guys blacklisted the ninja and their guilds also blacklisted the ninja. There is 200 people MINIMUM right there.

Those 4 guys also have 10-20 other friends, in other guilds. Bam, another 6-7 guilds (400 people or so) blacklisted that ninja. In a matter of hours, that ninja player was on basically everyone's blacklist.

It was like wildfire.

They were the MOST HATED players, and everyone avoided EVEN ASSOCIATE with them, hence, everyone blacklisted them.
09/11/2018 11:31Posted by Recollector
Well, it didn't took long for you to be on my ignore list.
lol... fingers in your ears and walking away is always a good way to end a discussion.
09/11/2018 12:07Posted by Nexiros
Why wouldn't you just need on everything now that you can just blame it on a missclick or say its for your offspec.
Exactly, except needing on obviously wrong gear and not returning it still brands you as a ninja and clicking 'greed' when you don't really need something becomes a way of beeing polite and show some civilisation, just like returning the item in case of a genuine missclick without asking gold for it.

We just need to adapt and accept that just as always there will be a-holes trying to ruin your game.
I knew people who were literally hounded off of the server. As in none of the raiding guilds would take them and they where constantly slammed in chat for their actions.

The dumbarses planning on stealing everything they can due to minor trading differences are in for a shock.

On huge servers your name might dissapear into the crowd but these will be vanilla sized not private server size. Very different communities. If your name starts to circle in major guilds you're boned. Early on it's even worse as the first few months everyone tends to see the same people due to matching levelling speed
09/11/2018 02:45Posted by Nighthand
I ninjad in Vanilla a couple of times, I asked this guy to make me a heartseeker dagger, nice blue rogue dagger, I basically give him around half the mats and said I would give him the rest when I had the dagger, I never did, but I got the dagger.

I also ninjad Bloodfang pants and perditions blade I think it was called from Ragnaros and ragequit the guild I was in.

I wasn't a very nice person.


And you played Rogue? Who could have guessed...

09/11/2018 10:30Posted by Recollector
09/11/2018 02:45Posted by Nighthand
I ninjad in Vanilla a couple of times, I asked this guy to make me a heartseeker dagger, nice blue rogue dagger, I basically give him around half the mats and said I would give him the rest when I had the dagger, I never did, but I got the dagger.

I also ninjad Bloodfang pants and perditions blade I think it was called from Ragnaros and ragequit the guild I was in.

I wasn't a very nice person.


Well, your guild was full of idiots, basically.

Doing raids without Master Looter is the epitome of idiocy.

Gratz for doing what you did btw:). Idiots deserved it.


My guild did all progression with FFA (summer 2005) and we were all expected to pass - which we did. Never had a ninja loot.

Think Master Loot was bugged there for a while or something.

09/11/2018 14:35Posted by Demostravius
I knew people who were literally hounded off of the server. As in none of the raiding guilds would take them and they where constantly slammed in chat for their actions.

The dumbarses planning on stealing everything they can due to minor trading differences are in for a shock.

On huge servers your name might dissapear into the crowd but these will be vanilla sized not private server size. Very different communities. If your name starts to circle in major guilds you're boned. Early on it's even worse as the first few months everyone tends to see the same people due to matching levelling speed


Agreed. We had people from other guilds coming in on applications or whispering us in-game warning us for some players who wanted to join. As did we when others had a idiot on their neck.
09/11/2018 14:35Posted by Demostravius
none of the raiding guilds would take them

As if everyone wanted to do raids.

09/11/2018 14:02Posted by Recollector
A group of 5 people, 1 being the ninja dude.

How about 4 ninjas and 1 regular dude? From what I know, being scammed by a guild/premade group is a more common thing. Now they won't even have to ninjaswap loot to master.
My guild did all progression with FFA (summer 2005) and we were all expected to pass - which we did. Never had a ninja loot.Think Master Loot was bugged there for a while or something.

our guild used FFA loot so everyone could see what's dropped.

masterloot table was dark and empty for everyone but leader, so no one knew what dropped until leader pasted the item.
Recollector seems to have a divided personality, on first page he acts like ninjaing has no consequences in vanilla/classic, but on the second page he clearly understands how it all works and how !@#$ed you are if you ninja.

09/11/2018 13:32Posted by Федя
It's impossible to know each one of tens of thousands players on the server. There's no such thing as single big server community

Each one no, but 90% of the relevant ones, yes. Decent raiding guilds are not that many on the server and they DO form a community. In Vanilla almost all realm had an unofficial homepage with a forum and yes, blacklists.

Recruitment officers familiarize themselves with available blacklists. You think you just get invited like that? You write an application after which they RESEARCH you as a player. If you've been a ninja it WILL come out and your application will be simply denied.

Dungeons will be the only game you will ever play and even there people will wise up after a time when the word will get around.

But what's the point of arguing? Go ahead and ninja see your character progress ruined.
Loot trade should not be in classic. But Ninja's get blacklisted by all serious guilds so they are easy to avoid.
09/11/2018 13:32Posted by Федя
I played legit TBC and some Vanilla private servers


That right there makes every, single argument you make on this subject moot.

You never played the original game so I strongly advise you to keep your opinions to yourself on this subject unless you want to be labeled as a complete and utter fool.

09/11/2018 14:44Posted by Федя
How about 4 ninjas and 1 regular dude? From what I know, being scammed by a guild/premade group is a more common thing. Now they won't even have to ninjaswap loot to master.


Guilds were also put on blacklists back then, just like players.

As i've said before, and as others have also said, people were put on blacklists and were unable to do any group content, ever again, resulting in the ninja looters on the blacklist quitting the game all together.

With your experience of vanilla coming only from Pservers, you're going to be in for a massive shock..

Can't wait to see your reaction when the game launches, loot trading included!
Their reasoning was ticketload, right? So disable it in all but raids? And make it available only when Master Loot is set. Sounds like a reasonable middle ground.
Guilds were also put on blacklists back then, just like players.

As i've said before, and as others have also said, people were put on blacklists and were unable to do any group content, ever again, resulting in the ninja looters on the blacklist quitting the game all together.

With your experience of vanilla coming only from Pservers, you're going to be in for a massive shock..

Can't wait to see your reaction when the game launches, loot trading included!

LIKE
QUOTE


This^^^

It's also one of the reasons why pop limit of around 2.5k is best. Actions will have consequences
09/11/2018 17:25Posted by Geronîmoo
Guilds were also put on blacklists back then

Who cares, guilds are autonomous.
And who will listen to a single scrub screaming in Trade chat that he's been scammed by some top guild people in maraudon, everyone will just laugh.

09/11/2018 17:25Posted by Geronîmoo
With your experience of vanilla coming only from Pservers, you're going to be in for a massive shock..

Why is that? Classic probably will be closer to it, than to the original 2005 experience. Times change.
And even tho I didn't play Vanilla back then, I knew people who did, and now Vanilla veterans have different opinions on that matter, so... this 'veteran authority' argument is kinda pointless.

09/11/2018 16:17Posted by Kheron
Each one no, but 90% of the relevant ones, yes. Decent raiding guilds are not that many on the server and they DO form a community. In Vanilla almost all realm had an unofficial homepage with a forum and yes, blacklists.

I'm aware of that, but decent relevant raiding isn't the only thing that matters in the game.
Not really, a lot of guilds used ffa since ml bugged out if the ml died.


Yeah, I forget why anyone was able to loot in 40 man raids, it was really early on in the game and like you say there were some issues.

The whole blacklisting method didn't really work in my opinion, that said life was more difficult if you screwed over players many times since those players are likely to be playing In some future guild you want to join. I managed to do some pretty decent PVE content, I did AQ40 up to C'thun and even some of early Naxx.

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