“I think global faction balance is in a pretty fine place”

General
11/11/2018 12:10Posted by Shortbolts
That's how I see it anyway, but I could be wrong.


Hmmm... hard to say anything about this to be honest, you could be right, you could be wrong, I could be right, I could be wrong...

My hope is that the high class guilds that switched once because of racials would do it again because they are self-sufficient enough to do well no matter which side, and there are alot of people who just want to be where the big names are.

Maybe Blizzard has to kick balancing out of the windown for that and just give the Alliance a real advantage that those who want to get world first cant ignore, but that could be too hard.

It has to kinda be the same motivation as before, something so minimal that only the people who want to squeeze every last 0.001% advantage out of the game would even bother to notice...

But I also see that this is something that really hard to do on purpose...
whoever said that needs to play as alliance in warmode for 2 hours
11/11/2018 11:58Posted by Xemeron
Why? The Top Guilds switched one because some racials did minimal better in the raid content, wouldnt they switch back when Bliztzard just makes the Alliance racials more valuable for the new Raids?
Minimal??

Most of the guild Method followed by the other switched back in cata..

If you say minimal better the beastslaying of trolls in cata that was 5% dmg to beast ...not talking about back the berzeking that was even more powerfull..

If you could check dps difference top horde /alliance with racial was already at 6% more dmg in some fight now stack same races/racial = win..

So give for a amount of time an op racial to alliance right now...even you state that you would qq...

Y'g during cara i switched to a troll because of racial...
@Xemeron the majority are asking for a fix not to further the problem. If suddenly the Alliance has 60% players, the problem isn't fixed. Most people don't realize that both factions need each other to thrive to have some fun in this game. The imbalance is purely created by Blizzard, not the players.

Alliance is the laughing stock of every Blizzcon (The horrors of Blizzcon 2011), the lack of creativity, the obvious racial imbalance, hell even the Allied Races. It makes you feel like a second class customer playing as Alliance. I guess the only players Alliance has left are the people that played Alliance from back in the day and have a soft place for it, i don't see any reason for someone to play Alliance at the moment.
11/11/2018 12:22Posted by Hunteresa
racial imbalance


I think, I don't have any data to back it up, that this problem only really came into play with the Legion pre-patch and with the nerf of the human racial "Every Man for Himself". Before Legion the Alliance was the PvP-faction. If you wanted to do high-level-PvP the Alliance was the way to go. I can still remember that as an Alliance player the mercenary recruiters were nearly always up. At the same time, if you were more focused on PvE then the Horde was the better choice.

With Legion however everybody was now able to use an insignia in PvP, removing the last reason why you should play Alliance.

This really didn't come into play until BfA however, because only now more people realized the gross imbalance because of the warmode. If you're not playing on a roleplaying server at least (because these servers traditionally favor the Alliance).
I think, I don't have any data to back it up, that this problem only really came into play with the Legion pre-patch and with the nerf of the human racial "Every Man for Himself". Before Legion the Alliance was the PvP-faction. If you wanted to do high-level-PvP the Alliance was the way to go. However, if you were more focused on PvE then the Horde was the better choice. However, with Legion everybody was now able to use an insignia in PvP, removing the last reason why you should play Alliance.

This really didn't come into play until BfA however, because only now more people realized the gross imbalance because of the warmode. If you're not playing on a roleplaying server at least (because these servers traditionally favor the Alliance).


I'd agree with this. For a few years I had heard people make comments about Alliance being the PvP faction and the Horde being the PvE faction. But, now, it's mainly everything is Horde. PvP is overrun by Horde (More than 70% of people above 2k rating are Horde) and PvE is also overrun with Horde (More guilds on Horde side have killed Mythic G'huun, and Alliance within the world first race are just forgotten, it's always going to be a Horde guild that wins).
11/11/2018 12:30Posted by Keydiam
11/11/2018 12:22Posted by Hunteresa
racial imbalance


I think, I don't have any data to back it up, that this problem only really came into play with the Legion pre-patch and with the nerf of the human racial "Every Man for Himself". Before Legion the Alliance was the PvP-faction. If you wanted to do high-level-PvP the Alliance was the way to go. I can still remember that as an Alliance player the mercenary recruiters were nearly always up. At the same time, if you were more focused on PvE then the Horde was the better choice.

With Legion however everybody was now able to use an insignia in PvP, removing the last reason why you should play Alliance.

This really didn't come into play until BfA however, because only now more people realized the gross imbalance because of the warmode. If you're not playing on a roleplaying server at least (because these servers traditionally favor the Alliance).


I'm talking about now. Like i said in my comment, bias towards either faction is NOT what we want. We need each other to do content. If the tabels turn towards Alliance we would still be in the same spot.

If we are talking "back then" i guess the poster above me summed it up quite well, 6% more DPS on bosses due to racial stacking is not "minimal" and a very valid reason for ANY progression guild to switch sides.
11/11/2018 12:33Posted by Shortbolts
PvP is overrun by Horde


Yeah. With Legion trinkets no longer worked in PvP, so obviously the higher-ranked-people would start looking for races with better utility or damage racials. And well: The blood elves provided just that with an AOE-silence ability. (Which ironically got "nerfed" with BfA into a purge effect, however purge-effects are really powerful in mythic so yeah...great job Blizzard.)

I think they tried to fix this with the Dark Iron Dwarves, as their "Fireblood" racial is actually kinda powerful and from what I've read during the Arena Championship (not sure) many actually played them. But, really: I don't see many people actually playing them or switching factions only for the dwarves.

11/11/2018 12:38Posted by Hunteresa
and a very valid reason for ANY progression guild to switch sides.


Back then however the factions balanced each other out to a certain degree, because the Alliance still had the PvP-playerbase. Nowadays, outside of cosmetics, you have no reason to actually choose the Alliance over the Horde.

And the problem is: If Blizzard decides now to completely balance the factions the situation wouldn't change. It would remain largely the same as it is now. The damage has been done and it can't be fixed easily, because as you said: If the Alliance would now get OP-stuff then we would simply flip the whole thing and nothing would change.

(And I still agree with many of your points. Both factions need each other for good and balanced game experience.)
@Selveera: RealmPop is actually very good at tracking total existing characters... but those numbers often have almost nothing to do with how people left actively play. Jito's observations are pretty much spot on. It is extremely easy to start to suffer from subjective bias... To the extent that I have seen people argue numbers that make absolutely no sense to others... and despite that, there have been occasions when BOTH sides are correct... at that specific point of time, on that given day, in that particular shard, etc.

Additionally, I am not aware of any method of determining reliably, what sort of portion of each faction has war mode on. I am tempted to think that alliance side has a bit higher overall activity, BUT a much lower portion of people with war mode on. I have no way of proving that, though. This hypothesis would at least partially explain the more common complaint of alliance players being heavily outnumbered outside cities...
11/11/2018 12:59Posted by Trelw
@Selveera: RealmPop is actually very good at tracking total existing characters... but those numbers often have almost nothing to do with how people left actively play. Jito's observations are pretty much spot on. It is extremely easy to start to suffer from subjective bias... To the extent that I have seen people argue numbers that make absolutely no sense to others... and despite that, there have been occasions when BOTH sides are correct... at that specific point of time, on that given day, in that particular shard, etc.

Additionally, I am not aware of any method of determining reliably, what sort of portion of each faction has war mode on. I am tempted to think that alliance side has a bit higher overall activity, BUT a much lower portion of people with war mode on. I have no way of proving that, though. This hypothesis would at least partially explain the more common complaint of alliance players being heavily outnumbered outside cities...


Yeh, I've began to realize that aswell, hence I edited the post and during this week, I'll continue to observe the same WQs from both Alliance and Horde POV.. if this trend continues tho chances are WoW just hates ME instead then :D
this alliance feeling of having a handicap is nonsense, i'm a frikkin shadow priest and i still have yet to experience this handicap other than being slightly outnumbered in warmode

my racials are amazing, so are the lightforged ones and the dark iron ones, and the night elf ones, kul'tiran, and the human ones too

most alliance races have 5 racials

i get NO pushback, none at all - that is so overpowered i love it

if anything our racials are in a better place since the troll and belf nerf than the horde

i play both sides
11/11/2018 12:59Posted by Trelw
I am tempted to think that alliance side has a bit higher overall activity, BUT a much lower portion of people with war mode on. I have no way of proving that, though. This hypothesis would at least partially explain the more common complaint of alliance players being heavily outnumbered outside cities...


this probably needs no proof if this interview article says the truth (blizzard can see the exact numbers anyway we just had to wait when would they finally admit it):

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hnewman/2018/11/07/blizzard-working-to-balance-warcrafts-alliance-and-horde-players-in-war-mode-raiding/#88d48fb3c183

The amount of players who utilize War Mode currently skew towards Horde.

The Isle of Conquest and Alterac Valley battlegrounds tend to favor Alliance "a bit" and everything else skews mildly to the Horde, with a win rate of 54%-46%


they are about to increase the bonus for the underrepresented faction in 8.1 - which is basically the Alliance now. they are making distinct hall of fames. they are about to nerf some horde racials a bit. they are about to make a raid with swapped racials.

i still think that their mindset needs to change if they want to balance the factions:

making fun of the alliance players will not help.
incidents like 2011 blizzcon and reacting as sorry it just meant fun will not help.
depicting the alliance leadership as cretins will not help.
admitting that virtually every top developer plays horde will not help.
making questionable decisions that somehow favor the horde will not help.

these may be tiny bits but in the long run as the players will react to the developers, streamers and "influencers" and will tend toward the horde, will cause damage. you can already see that.

(i'm playing both sides btw)
11/11/2018 12:18Posted by Retributor
whoever said that needs to play as alliance in warmode for 2 hours


I faction changed just for that and I am happy.
Grow up a spine.
It's fine because that's why i'm often spending 15m+ for a single WQ... The robot cat rare one took me 27 minutes once, not a single Alliance ever arrived. Nah, balance is fine! - Horde players

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You have no statistics on that.

Just read down the first few pages of Wowprogress.com.

A sea of red, with a new lonely blues.

Think it's just at the top because of the unbalanced racials? keep going.

Now try the same with M+. Same story:
https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-bfa-1/all/world/leaderboards
They won't llisten, troll beserking is OP because activating it in the right time is crucial in raiding, Alliance guild wipes due to lack of dps and because most specs prefer troll/beserking they all activate their racial and hit the breakpoint on said nuke phase. Meanwhile they broke every Alliance racial, heck even shadowmeld isn't resetting my aggro anymore on a wipe call, human stun breaker has been disabled in raiding because it would break the game. Meanwhile it's totaly fine you can cheese M+ and Zul with the blood elf racial.

11/11/2018 12:22Posted by Hunteresa
Alliance is the laughing stock of every Blizzcon (The horrors of Blizzcon 2011), the lack of creativity, the obvious racial imbalance, hell even the Allied Races. It makes you feel like a second class customer playing as Alliance. I guess the only players Alliance has left are the people that played Alliance from back in the day and have a soft place for it, i don't see any reason for someone to play Alliance at the moment.
It's striking how yellow eyes are an option for blood elves, but a seperate race for Draenei... They should have made a female broken model and added the lightforged customization to the Draenei. RP wise you're both a draenei then, but different depending on eye colour to which side you belong.
11/11/2018 10:46Posted by Slugtrail
Im Horde, sometimes when I look for a world boss group there is one or less.


I am astounded you can find any world boss with no groups up. Unless you mean those rares that most people can solo these days.
11/11/2018 20:43Posted by Punyelf

I am astounded you can find any world boss with no groups up. Unless you mean those rares that most people can solo these days.


Those were soloable even on launch day without switching to tank spec. Only ones that really need a group are world bosses that reset each week.
11/11/2018 12:50Posted by Keydiam
Back then however the factions balanced each other out to a certain degree, because the Alliance still had the PvP-playerbase. Nowadays, outside of cosmetics, you have no reason to actually choose the Alliance over the Horde.


It wasn't. I don't care about doing pve on my priest, it's just a easy way to get gear, nothing else. Horde side being completely dead for pvp wasn't fun.
About Racials and Zul and other !@#$, better switch to Bloodelf then to bring a shadowpriest, funny how thinks a balanced.^^
Don't you see? When the human racial became the best for PvP all serious PvP people "had" to go Alliance, many of them paying for a faction change or later level boost. Lots of cash coming in. Now EMFH is nerfed and serious players move again, bringing in more cash. A few patches ahead Alliance racials will be made king for PvE and serious raiders move, bringing in more cash...
The irony is that nerfing Berserking and increasing thr Warmode reward for Alliance, and so on, won't do anything to help with faction balance.

Because the Horde are getting Zandalari Trolls.

And if you listened to the crowd at Blizzcon, then it was easy to hear that people are a lot more excited about Zandalari Trolls than they are about Kul Tirans.

So once those Allied Races become avaliable, then people are going to flock to Horde so they can play badass trolls. And then the faction balance just gets worse :P

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