Current state of MM on PTR.

Hunter
So jumped back onto the ptr with the new MM updates.

I must say the whole feel of the spec is better everything flows better the damage is less big crits with "aimed shot" but far more constant damage from all skills inc aimed shot.

The rework of true shot is amazing it just helps the class feel more like it should firing off fast hitting shots.

I think in 8.1 we will see a return to MM for alot of hunters who have been waiting for the spec.

The issue we still have:

1:Trick shot still needs 3 targets to work needs to be changed to 2 targets.

2:lethal shots talent needs changing in its current state its pointless to pick it.

3: Explosive shot cant not be on the same line as "Careful Aim" as both talents are a must have. Cows & Careful Aim should swap.
But I did see your post a couple of weeks ago, saying ptr 8.1 was bad for MM hunters. Now, nothing has changed, but now you say its much better? Sense is not made.
07/11/2018 07:48Posted by Terapeuten
But I did see your post a couple of weeks ago, saying ptr 8.1 was bad for MM hunters. Now, nothing has changed, but now you say its much better? Sense is not made.


More time testing and learning the spec. 1st post was kinda right we do lose out on our massive crit damage.

But after test different setups and builds and then using that in PvE and PvP the class feels more well rounded.

I think the spec will do well come live but has a few issue as per my top post.
MM will be trashtier come live, 8.1 gives us nothing but major dmg nerfs. Sure the rotation feels better but the dmg isnt nearly enough, MM will be unviable both in pve and pvp. They still didnt address the issue with our utility, sniper shot is mandatory in 8.1 for pvp since rest of our toolkit does zero dmg, meaning you lose knock trap or scatter... GJ blizzard u actually managed to make MM worse and 8.1 will be the last nail in the coffin for MM hunt.
I tried to do some pvp on PTR but the queues refused to pop.
PvP need big numbers if you wanna burst something down. Is the overall damage enough to put pressure on focused targets? And is it high enough to have a fair 1v1 fight?

Im asking because im very curious, and even abit excited :)

If the dmg still is to low, would a Lone Wolf buff fix the issue?
07/11/2018 19:44Posted by Luciran
I tried to do some pvp on PTR but the queues refused to pop.
PvP need big numbers if you wanna burst something down. Is the overall damage enough to put pressure on focused targets? And is it high enough to have a fair 1v1 fight?

Im asking because im very curious, and even abit excited :)

If the dmg still is to low, would a Lone Wolf buff fix the issue?


Damage isnt there regardless how you trait. We have worse burst with rapid-fire (3 x focused fire) 8.1 since they nerfed streamlined. Steady aim is out. Arcane flurry is too bad still. Our aimed shot base damage is laughable.

No, its not looking good. Something more needs to change mechanic-wise. Numbers-tuning wont fix it.
So many people buthurt that theres no more steady aim build, holy moly xddd
Or MM equals fire mages in terms of burst or this spec wont do it well in PvP, but RBGs maybe, seeing how its mechanics will work.

Don't understand how being a pure dps class we have to play defensively because almost all classes/specs outdps or outdef/heal us.
09/11/2018 00:43Posted by Narakamos
Or MM equals fire mages in terms of burst or this spec wont do it well in PvP, but RBGs maybe, seeing how its mechanics will work.

Don't understand how being a pure dps class we have to play defensively because almost all classes/specs outdps or outdef/heal us.


The damage numbers do need some work but i have done alot of pvp in 8.1 and have not lost 1 on 1 unless it was a healer.
09/11/2018 06:03Posted by Vorren
09/11/2018 00:43Posted by Narakamos
Or MM equals fire mages in terms of burst or this spec wont do it well in PvP, but RBGs maybe, seeing how its mechanics will work.

Don't understand how being a pure dps class we have to play defensively because almost all classes/specs outdps or outdef/heal us.


The damage numbers do need some work but i have done alot of pvp in 8.1 and have not lost 1 on 1 unless it was a healer.


Our kiting seems stronger, is this one of the main reasons you have won most 1v1 fights, or is it the new overall damage? Or maybe both? :)
09/11/2018 08:58Posted by Luciran
09/11/2018 06:03Posted by Vorren
...

The damage numbers do need some work but i have done alot of pvp in 8.1 and have not lost 1 on 1 unless it was a healer.


Our kiting seems stronger, is this one of the main reasons you have won most 1v1 fights, or is it the new overall damage? Or maybe both? :)


Kiting is stronger now and we should see no issue with that now. As for damage we have lost the huge 100K+ crits with aimed shot but the damage is more spread out now and with the effects of true shot we get some really nice bust damage, I would like to see away to get the true shot cd down faster though.
09/11/2018 16:25Posted by Vorren
I would like to see away to get the true shot cd down faster though.


Trueshot is a 2 min CD, and calling the shots lowers this further. Not sure how much lower you can even want it.
Kiting stronger? What am I missing? What changes in 8.1 that makes our kiting better? I saw nothing about that.

Hard to me to belive you are winning 1vs1 against all classes but healers... not questioning your skill, just MM mechanics, that all.

Can you win against tanks?, against boomies?, against shadow priests? I doubt it, really, or that sniper shot the perfect tool?
Tested out the new Surging shots trait, it is mandatory now. However even with surging shots my dps dropped from 17k to 13k compared to live, so overall this is a nerf in pve. Steady aim build does around 10k dps in comparison on ptr, so its not competetive build anymore, also new trueshot feels very bad with steady aim build, most use of the cd is wasted spamming steady shot.

The dmg seems quite good with streamline + double tap rapid fire. However double tap is nerfed in pvp, sniper shot might compensate with a second bursty ability tho. Also with surging shots trueshot feels very powerful cd. Overall the rotation feels better, however aimed shot is just filler now and hardly feels worth casting. Only the surging shots trait 15% Rapid fire reset chance on aimed shot makes it worthwhile. It kinda feels weird when our resource generator now does most of our dmg, rapid fire at 35-40% of my dmg when my main resource dump aimed shot does hardly any dmg. Aimed shot should be instant cast if it does this little dmg and acts as a filler, it is already limited with charges anyways. Other more sensible option would be to buff aimed shot considerably maybe even double the dmg, atleast by 50%.

New sniper shot could be nice resource dump in pvp tho, hard to say couse its bugged in ptr. But atleast in pve rotation the resource building/dumping feels way off dmg wise. Ofcourse this is also utility nerf in pvp too if sniper shot becomes mandatory pick, you cant pick both scatter and knock trap anymore. This is why scatter needs to become baseline and off dr with trap. Just look at mm cc, freezing trap and talented scatter shot on same dr LOL. What if rogues would have to talent to get kidney shot and it would dr with blind? Feels fair... Hunter has always been about long cc chains or setting up for bursty window to kill target. For example wotlk silence shot>scatter>trap>silence>readiness>scatter>trap>silence etc, where is the cc now throw trap at random and miss...

Overall PTR dmg is nerfed, utility is nerfed.
If these issues are not tackled, GJ blizz mm dead spec.
09/11/2018 20:49Posted by Narakamos
Kiting stronger? What am I missing? What changes in 8.1 that makes our kiting better? I saw nothing about that.

Hard to me to belive you are winning 1vs1 against all classes but healers... not questioning your skill, just MM mechanics, that all.

Can you win against tanks?, against boomies?, against shadow priests? I doubt it, really, or that sniper shot the perfect tool?


Some thing tells me you didnt even read the patch notes......

- Bursting Shot has had its knockback range increased, can no longer be dodged, and snares targets for 6 seconds now.

- Steady Shot will now increase the duration of Concussive Shot on the target by 3 seconds. This will work on a Concussive Shot from any friendly Hunter, not just your own Concussive Shot.
Noticed those two, just wanted to know if they are that good for kiting since i cant test on PTR, and most specs have lots of ways to aproach us in melee.
PLEASE just stop Vorren. I dont know what dip!@#$s youve been dueling, but double-tap-rapidfire with 3 x Focused Fire is not in any way a significance that MM works in PvP. And even with that, youre gonna lose to most decent players who just interrupts you or heal up.

Get your head out off your %^- and get with the program. MM is in the most messy state than it has _EVER_ been since TBC. The devs have NO clue where to take it. Right now, there's probably a 33/33/33 that they revert to an older iteration of MM, do something completely random with its current state, or that they just wont bother because trust me, right now they are driving blind. But if you think that you being able to win a couple of duels with cooldowns on PTR makes hunter even remotely good, then you have zero clue what you are talking about.
10/11/2018 12:56Posted by Narakamos
Noticed those two, just wanted to know if they are that good for kiting since i cant test on PTR, and most specs have lots of ways to aproach us in melee.


They work alot better than expect. The fact we can keep up our dps with out needed to reapply our slow helps. I had no issues keeping people away,

Also with true shot yes our aimed shot now dose less damage but with the 50% cast speed and the huge CD reduction we can do some high burst damage.
Mmmh i dunno... thou roudly exposed, im leaning towards Terapeuten line of thought.

This is, so there is no confusion, that i find MM unable to down:

- Quick close quarter melee classes: those who you just cant keep away from you, all rogue specs, fury wars, ferals, slows talented dk, demon hunters.
This, because MM defensives are few, and less the ones which unroots us, which can be easily countered but master's call maybe.

- Durable specs, like tanks, healers, specs with offheals or heavy defensive mechanics.

In my humble opinion, i find 8.1 MM only able to face some casters, arms wars, retrys and not much more.

Main reason? Dps is veeeeery lacking. Lack of reliable heavy hitters, no self heal or proper defensives.

In short, MM is a glass cannon that only acomplishes its glass condition.

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