Warrior unplayable in M+

Warrior
There's no argument against warriors being below horrible for Mythic+. You'll have to go through tens of pages to find our class @ m+ leaderboards. Everything you do a Rogue, DH, Mage or WL does better. Damage is decent but doesn't justify the lack of CC. Others have noticed this and it's a mission impossible to find decent runs as a representative of our "mighty warlord."

Facts:
    Lack of CC
    Bad survivability
    Bad damage outside WBStorm

Suggestions:
    Bind Sweeping and RC to AM
    Bring back Shockwave for DPS
    Redesign 2nd Wind, e.g. 3% HPS after 2 seconds of not being damaged

Quality of life as of now: 0
Only thing we miss is shockwave. In terms of damage and mobility were in a good place. Also a small leech while cs is active wouldnt go a miss.

I wouldnt say we are unplayable at all. Major exaggeration therex
15/10/2018 05:57Posted by Gouca
There's no argument against warriors being below horrible for Mythic+. You'll have to go through tens of pages to find our class @ m+ leaderboards. Everything you do a Rogue, DH, Mage or WL does better. Damage is decent but doesn't justify the lack of CC. Others have noticed this and it's a mission impossible to find decent runs as a representative of our "mighty warlord."

Facts:
    Lack of CC
    Bad survivability
    Bad damage outside WBStorm

Suggestions:
    Bind Sweeping and RC to AM
    Bring back Shockwave for DPS
    Redesign 2nd Wind, e.g. 3% HPS after 2 seconds of not being damaged

Quality of life as of now: 0


No we are not the best but we do bring some stuff (arms):

-Strong burst aoe and good cleave, good execute phase which helps on some bosses.
-Def stance, only a small damage loss for 6 seconds for 20% less damage, you should use this.
-Group health buff, very useful and can stop wipes.

Fury misses def stance but they do have self heals.
Bad Damage outside WB/Bladestorm just isn't true.
Tank is being reworked, as for dps I didn't try fury so i can't talk on their behalf. but as arms I can tell you we are missing a lot of self heals and utility..

I really think a demo shout for dps warriors and the passive healing from legions artifact wep, the one that heals you for rage spent is enough to make arms warrior competitive again.

Giving us shockwave is useless tbh it's just another bland aoe stun which a lot of other classes have.
The only thing that is laughable about us is our lack of utility in m+. You are basically a dmg bot.

Maybe add some neat leech and shorter cd on Rallying cry to help the group in dire needs.
15/10/2018 05:57Posted by Gouca
There's no argument against warriors being below horrible for Mythic+. You'll have to go through tens of pages to find our class @ m+ leaderboards. Everything you do a Rogue, DH, Mage or WL does better. Damage is decent but doesn't justify the lack of CC. Others have noticed this and it's a mission impossible to find decent runs as a representative of our "mighty warlord."

Facts:
    Lack of CC
    Bad survivability
    Bad damage outside WBStorm

Suggestions:
    Bind Sweeping and RC to AM
    Bring back Shockwave for DPS
    Redesign 2nd Wind, e.g. 3% HPS after 2 seconds of not being damaged

Quality of life as of now: 0


Dont think se are that bad. But i do think second wind should work Aš u said.

Just a small adjustment. It heals after 5sec of not being dmged directly.

So u have to work for it to function, but dot dont make the talent absolutly useless for PVP combat
One of the reasons Frost mages are so popular in high M+ keys even tho many times an Arcane mage would out DPS them, is simply because one of the important factors in doing high keys is for the tank to kite efficiently and for the group to have constant AoE dps that isn't too reliant on cooldowns. Frost mages are so popular because of their great constant AoE snare and damage. Many people forget that Fury brings the same tools.

Arm's burst AoE is fantastic, but when you have trash pull after trash pull you will find yourself on some pulls having no warbreaker and no bladestorm and therefore doing less damage than the tank. Fury needs no cooldowns to AoE and does so very well. You have an AoE snare with no cooldown and only 10 rage and if you don't use that to help the tank kite than you should start doing so asap. Sadly a lot of non-warriors forget that fury has this tool and just prefer to get frost mages or tar traps
17/10/2018 06:44Posted by Brawx
One of the reasons Frost mages are so popular in high M+ keys even tho many times an Arcane mage would out DPS them, is simply because one of the important factors in doing high keys is for the tank to kite efficiently and for the group to have constant AoE dps that isn't too reliant on cooldowns. Frost mages are so popular because of their great constant AoE snare and damage. Many people forget that Fury brings the same tools.

Arm's burst AoE is fantastic, but when you have trash pull after trash pull you will find yourself on some pulls having no warbreaker and no bladestorm and therefore doing less damage than the tank. Fury needs no cooldowns to AoE and does so very well. You have an AoE snare with no cooldown and only 10 rage and if you don't use that to help the tank kite than you should start doing so asap. Sadly a lot of non-warriors forget that fury has this tool and just prefer to get frost mages or tar traps


Frost is actually way better for cleaving than Arcane. Arcane only beats Frost in pure single target.

But yeah I agree with the rest!

I would love Warriors to have some more fricking utility. We are Warriors in full plate armor, but we are the squishiest DPS out there. It just feels ridiculous.
17/10/2018 06:44Posted by Brawx
One of the reasons Frost mages are so popular in high M+ keys even tho many times an Arcane mage would out DPS them, is simply because one of the important factors in doing high keys is for the tank to kite efficiently and for the group to have constant AoE dps that isn't too reliant on cooldowns. Frost mages are so popular because of their great constant AoE snare and damage. Many people forget that Fury brings the same tools.

Arm's burst AoE is fantastic, but when you have trash pull after trash pull you will find yourself on some pulls having no warbreaker and no bladestorm and therefore doing less damage than the tank. Fury needs no cooldowns to AoE and does so very well. You have an AoE snare with no cooldown and only 10 rage and if you don't use that to help the tank kite than you should start doing so asap. Sadly a lot of non-warriors forget that fury has this tool and just prefer to get frost mages or tar traps


On high keys you will have burst aoe every big pack. Regarding frost mage, its not so good this week because you want to pull them out of sanguine fast. Its op for stuff like necrotic.
I might be a semi-casual when it comes to raiding but I've decided to attempt to be the #1 warrior on my realm because mythic+ suits me more since I hate the strictness of hardcore and semi-hardcore mythic raiding guilds.

As a 1200 io DPS warrior you will not get a spot in any group with similar score that's at least semi serious about succeeding. Demon hunters and rogues are simply better at everything we do except for overall DPS. The typical idiots on forums will claim that warriors are still in a pretty good spot and that there is no reason to complain since we are effectively 3rd best melee DPS but the reality is simple - no leader that actually understands the meta is going to invite any melee class except for a rogue or dh depending on key and affixes.

It doesn't matter that ferals, enh shamans, blood and frost dks, surv hunters etc. are all doing even worse than we are. We all might as well be the worst melee DPS class in game, the invite ratio wouldn't be much lower because we aren't rogues and demon hunters.

The m+15 meta is very strict and simple: blood dks, dhs/rogues as mdps and mages/bm/affli/balance as rdps. Specs I've just mentioned take up to over 50% of their respective roles, the remaining specs have to fight for scraps. You might say: you only have 1200 score M15 meta shouldn't concern you.

Wrong.

Blizzard's inability to balance the game showcased itself in another, after faction imbalance, slippery slope where people who push 10/11/12/13 keys try to copy people who successfully cleared 14/15/16 etc. It doesn't matter that you could do it with most specs as long as players are good. People simply use the same logic they've applied to pug raiding - I'll invite the guy with better ilvl/spec.

The worst thing is - I can't even blame them. Even if I consider myself a decent player I can't the deny the fact that warriors are absolutely trash when compared to dh or rogue. Dhs are simply insane, while I tend to beat my guild mate, who is a 1300 io dh, in terms of DPS I still cannot deny the fact that he brings so much more to the group. The aoe silence, longer range interupts, magic dmg taken debuff, aoe stuns for minions of ghuun, imprisonment, insane single target burst, very similar cleave etc.
What do I offer? An efing 3% attack power buff.

Even in runs with my guild mates that I'm very found of I can't stop but feel like a scumbag for playing warrior. In example: recently we depleted a +13 shrine only because I'm playing a warrior. You do the whole run perfectly, don't die, top the dps and looks forward to next run just so you can realise that you just wasted 6 minutes on the bridge before third boss while wiping twice because you play an useless warrior and so your team couldn't just skip the whole bridge on shroud and instead had to mess around with combat rezz which we failed twice.

So yea if you think about serious m+ pushing forget about warrior.
You just suck, just saw prot warr in full 385 azerite from M 10 and eveything else 380+ titanforged including weapon and shield, how did he get those if they are unplayable?
The m+15 meta is very strict and simple: blood dks, dhs/rogues as mdps and mages/bm/affli/balance as rdps. Specs I've just mentioned take up to over 50% of their respective roles, the remaining specs have to fight for scraps. You might say: you only have 1200 score M15 meta shouldn't concern you.


Exactly why I'm re-rolling from warri to rogue. I'm around 380 IL and around1.3 IO rank since about 2 weeks back. All of the grps that are serious about pushing (and are not like your friends/guildies) will go with the meta setup and you will end up spending hours in queues wishing for someone to invite you.

I do not take myself for any great player, but I think that I can say "Decent" without a doubt. It is just frustrating to be in this spot. Most funny thing is that this is basically an issue for me since BFA. I have been Fury since day one and only recently it changed that we are "accepted" to join groups.

We are simply stripped of the decent utility for the grp when people always takes it as conversation over DPS. So most likely situation won't change anytime soon as Blizz do not hear us well as of now :).

Before any other flamer will get his hands on the keyboard to start meming and trolling. These are my logs to give a better understanding over issue that we have:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/36367369#zone=20
19/10/2018 10:52Posted by Dreadhorn
You just suck, just saw prot warr in full 385 azerite from M 10 and eveything else 380+ titanforged including weapon and shield, how did he get those if they are unplayable?


You can get this by just doing Mythic +10 and the first two Mythic bosses.

Sorry to tell you it's not "end game".

By the way if you have experienced this content yourself, you can tell without a doubt that yes, they can do it. But it will be significantly easier with a Blood DK, so most people won't bother taking the Warrior.
Well any class can do m+10 easily.

Doing world record m+ runs is a different thing.

As fury you do have:
+ 4s stun
+ low cd interrupt
+ aoe slow
+ good 5 enemy dps
+ 10% attack power buff
+ good self heal
+ plate armor
+ high health for a dps class
+ aoe fear, which is usable for high level m+ pulls when enemies do !@#$ ton of dmg and want to nuke down specific target, obviously should know when to use to avoid extra pulls. Can also be used as an extra interrupt sometimes.
+ aoe health buff, good when your group is taking big damage to help healer (and yourself)
+ damage reduction and increased self-healing cd

Personally I also prefer dragon roar over bladestorm, due to 6s slow, insta aoe dmg and low 35s cd

What you lack:
-threat removal (sucks during skittish)
-insta immunity (like iceblock/pally shield, to remove or shield from heavy spells)
-ranged dmg
-insane aoe dmg when more than 5+ enemies
-aoe stun
-"sap" type of ability that will lock a mob before/during a fight
-also some classes can kill you by say using frost nova on enemie trash while tank is kiting while you are hitting, and then the mobs cant move and the creeps will hit you since they cant reach the tank

Due to AP buff and stamina buff, a good ranged combo to group with would be hunters instead of casters. Also stamina buff stacks with stamina aoe shout, so having a priest healer would give extra benefit, tho a pally would provide plate drops. Stamina wise bear tanks would benefit immensly.
Yup I too had to reroll DH a couple weeks back since nobody would like to take in my warrior with 1,2k score. Shame 'cause I love how fury plays out
The warrior problem is that they bring nothing unique that is worth a damn.
27/10/2018 09:39Posted by Nkem
As fury you do have:
+ 4s stun

On a talent. Every other decent class has a blaseline stun and/or other CC options.
27/10/2018 09:39Posted by Nkem

+ low cd interrupt

Literally every melee has this. Some even have range on it.
As fury you do have:
+ aoe slow

On the GCD, costs rage. Rogues and mages do it passively.
27/10/2018 09:39Posted by Nkem

+ good 5 enemy dps

OK.
27/10/2018 09:39Posted by Nkem

+ 10% attack power buff

Literally replaced by a scroll if the group even needs this.
27/10/2018 09:39Posted by Nkem

+ good self heal

Bloodthirst sustain is OK, but not exactly unique for melee. A bunch of classes have leech or low CD self-heals.
27/10/2018 09:39Posted by Nkem

+ plate armor

Irrelevant.
27/10/2018 09:39Posted by Nkem

+ high health for a dps class

Cool, but that only matters to an extent. Most things that are dangerous require either significant damage reduction or immunities to survive.
27/10/2018 09:39Posted by Nkem

+ aoe fear, which is usable for high level m+ pulls when enemies do !@#$ ton of dmg and want to nuke down specific target, obviously should know when to use to avoid extra pulls. Can also be used as an extra interrupt sometimes.

Agreed, the only truly useful and unique ability.
27/10/2018 09:39Posted by Nkem

+ aoe health buff, good when your group is taking big damage to help healer (and yourself)

When was the last time somebody noticed this being activated outside of a raid?
27/10/2018 09:39Posted by Nkem

+ damage reduction and increased self-healing cd

So does everybody else, except most other classes also have immunities. CD is also meh-ish.
15/10/2018 08:31Posted by Daddyghoul

-Strong burst aoe and good cleave, good execute phase which helps on some bosses.
-Def stance, only a small damage loss for 6 seconds for 20% less damage, you should use this.
-Group health buff, very useful and can stop wipes.

Fury misses def stance but they do have self heals.

- Rogues do nearly the same AoE burst and unless we're talking about <m+8 or similar where packs die just after BS half the classes in the game outdps us on AoE (btw. it scales pretty badly later on into expansion). Out ST burst is pretty !@#$ compared to most classes and we make up for some of the ST dps on executes, which once again - scale pretty badly later into expansion. There's nothing we can do that rogues/DHs cant. On top of that they have healeing, strong survival abilities and other utility. We don't
- You have to anticipate incomming dmg with def stance, while cheat deaths, constant healing and other crap (that does not hinder your damage) doesn't require any skill.
- Rallying Cry is a joke, sure it may save a wipe and sometimes it does, but it's unreliable in most cases. It used to be good at BRH for example, where there was big unavoidable AoE on timer.

Overall warriors are not bad dmgwise but are pretty %^-* compared to, well, nearly every rdps and most melees as the few % better overall dmg per dung clear is nowhere near as usefull as the toolkits other classes have.
My regular group is about 1,3k Rio score, I really like playing a warrior and I'm having a lot of fun.. But my group begged me to reroll to my BM hunter. They have been helping me gear up a bit, but when I play I just miss my warrior. I just wished we had some more utility, it's not asking a lot. When we talk about strats and CC I feel like I contribute nothing to our group that can't be replaced by a scroll or any other class. They could at least bring back shockwave, I know they removed aoe stuns from dps for a reason, but we had so little to begin with.
01/11/2018 01:34Posted by Zyferunreal
My regular group is about 1,3k Rio score, I really like playing a warrior and I'm having a lot of fun.. But my group begged me to reroll to my BM hunter. They have been helping me gear up a bit, but when I play I just miss my warrior. I just wished we had some more utility, it's not asking a lot. When we talk about strats and CC I feel like I contribute nothing to our group that can't be replaced by a scroll or any other class. They could at least bring back shockwave, I know they removed aoe stuns from dps for a reason, but we had so little to begin with.


They didnt remove aoe stun from dps but only from warriors all other clasess have their aoe stun without touch. (Atleast DH and Shamans not sure who else)
So i really dont see any reason why removing aoe stun from warrior dps.

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