Alliance faction pride

Story
For my part I feel no pride in the alliance! It would be possible if you were not constantly forced to play the "nice guy", I prefer the peoples regardless of the faction, and I do not care if Undead, Voidelf, Highelf, Night Elf, Blood Elf, Nightborn, Trolls, Humans or Dwarfs ,

I like a lot of race in Warcraft, but I see so much untapped potential in everyone. Also, I perceive this superiority of the Humans as they are presented as a real problem, it makes the other races appear weak, although they would have to be much more powerful than the human.

The role of the Humans in Warcraft was not the greatest power, they always had other races, but Humans were diverse. A good balanced system.

I think the principle: Bring together the culture and the associated race, it should not be that Humans can magically compete with elves, it should not be that humans can operate on equal terms in war with the orcs in 1on1, it should not be that People as capable priests as Draenei, or shamans like Tauren, but they can do it all at once, and nobody else can and should do that.
Absolutely, especially when Varian was still around, though that feeling has returned somewhat with Jaina's development this expansion. They represent a side of the alliance I think many people ignore. Warmode certainly helps, I'll happily kill whatever Horde I see regardless if I'm outnumbered. The Alliance never backs down, it doesn't allow fear to halt its forward march. While the Horde scurries around, always just about to pull itself apart by races who couldn't care less about anyone but themselves, the Alliance stands tall and grand. It doesn't bother with the Horde because they're beneath us, but if the Horde dares attack us, they feel the full wrath of the Alliance.
06/11/2018 20:50Posted by Frozengrip
Best to post this on my Night Elf this time.

I don't feel pride in my race/faction at all.

My homeland is in ruins, Teldrassil went up in flames with (arguably) the majority of its population and its capital city. A lot of the army was killed in the WoT (arguably again the majority of it. Worst the CC won't help its own people with even refugees and is forced to be neutral otherwise the Horde would be crushed already.

Before this we had Suramar city, jewel of the old Night Elves given to the Horde with one of the worst stories in the game just so they can have more Elves. And people defend this for god knows what reason. It would be like making Mag'har Orcs join the Alliance for some unknown awful reason.

What we get in return? Some Night Warrior stuff which is meant to make me feel better? Sure it is nice to see the Night Elves go back to what they were, and Tyrande and Malfurion to finally do something. But they are mere nibbles at this point.

Was it done in a good way as well? No it wasn't, it was done in a trash way with different sources contradicting each other. I could get over it if it was done well and my race went down in a blaze of glory, instead they got killed by giant crabs and bad writing.

And better yet I get a bunch of Horde players saying how this expansion fills my "ego" bar to max.

So in short no I don't like it at all. I don't have pride for what is going on and what my faction is doing and I am dreading what the ending is. Bad writing is bad writing and it affects everyone negatively regardless of if your side is winning or not.
Stop pretending like they're going to delete your race, be happy it's getting a spot in the highlights, obviously the fact that this was done to the night elves means they plan on doing something with the night elves.

Personally I'm looking forward to Quel'Thalas being under attack as a warfront because holy !@#$ maybe now we'll actually see a new version of it.

And then I see how night elves get all this potential and see night elves whine about it and I'm like how can you not see that this is not the end of this story
09/11/2018 11:55Posted by Sylvare
06/11/2018 20:50Posted by Frozengrip
Best to post this on my Night Elf this time.

I don't feel pride in my race/faction at all.

My homeland is in ruins, Teldrassil went up in flames with (arguably) the majority of its population and its capital city. A lot of the army was killed in the WoT (arguably again the majority of it. Worst the CC won't help its own people with even refugees and is forced to be neutral otherwise the Horde would be crushed already.

Before this we had Suramar city, jewel of the old Night Elves given to the Horde with one of the worst stories in the game just so they can have more Elves. And people defend this for god knows what reason. It would be like making Mag'har Orcs join the Alliance for some unknown awful reason.

What we get in return? Some Night Warrior stuff which is meant to make me feel better? Sure it is nice to see the Night Elves go back to what they were, and Tyrande and Malfurion to finally do something. But they are mere nibbles at this point.

Was it done in a good way as well? No it wasn't, it was done in a trash way with different sources contradicting each other. I could get over it if it was done well and my race went down in a blaze of glory, instead they got killed by giant crabs and bad writing.

And better yet I get a bunch of Horde players saying how this expansion fills my "ego" bar to max.

So in short no I don't like it at all. I don't have pride for what is going on and what my faction is doing and I am dreading what the ending is. Bad writing is bad writing and it affects everyone negatively regardless of if your side is winning or not.
Stop pretending like they're going to delete your race, be happy it's getting a spot in the highlights, obviously the fact that this was done to the night elves means they plan on doing something with the night elves.

Personally I'm looking forward to Quel'Thalas being under attack as a warfront because holy !@#$ maybe now we'll actually see a new version of it.

And then I see how night elves get all this potential and see night elves whine about it and I'm like how can you not see that this is not the end of this story


I hope you’re right
I feel proud to be a gnome, and I've loved them since vanilla. They are just the best race for me in my eyes. I like their animations their voices, their jokes. (It's a shame I am not engineering inclined as they are, I prefer linguistics etc. But in Warcraft you can be a gnome mage linguist with a burning passion to touch all Pandaren by their head and pet them) .

As for the Alliance, I am proud to be a of a faction that strives to have the best for the world, it has values I do enjoy. I also like to be objective despite the Alliance trying very hard to put out the Horde and their shenanigans, it's very much against their values to keep and preserve life etc. (The way I see it.) But they can't also just let some bad guys just be bad guys, they have to fight to see the world they think is best. In conclusion, yep I am happy to be a part of the Alliance.

I also hope that the new things annouced for us gnomies, is good. I want to learn more :)
09/11/2018 11:55Posted by Sylvare
And then I see how night elves get all this potential and see night elves whine about it and I'm like how can you not see that this is not the end of this story


Yep, In Cata they told the same thing - "Hold on NE fans, you will get bonuses in the end".
And what actually did we get?

B: "Sorry, we will not update old lands just to show Alliance win.
MMmmm and also we are taking Azshara from Night Elves, to the Horde"...
09/11/2018 11:55Posted by Sylvare
Stop pretending like they're going to delete your race, be happy it's getting a spot in the highlights, obviously the fact that this was done to the night elves means they plan on doing something with the night elves.


Ahhh yes, the ends justifie the means right?

Doesn't matter if they are genocided, their old cities and people go to the other side, their lands in ruins and the list goes on and on. But because we now have the spotlight and a new customization option it is going to be fine right?

Would you still have this opinion if it was done to the race you enjoy the most in one of the worst ways possible? Or would you be just as sad as every Night Elf fan currently?

09/11/2018 11:55Posted by Sylvare
Personally I'm looking forward to Quel'Thalas being under attack as a warfront because holy !@#$ maybe now we'll actually see a new version of it.


Perhaps we can march into your lands and burn down Silvermoon. Destroy your main army again and kill its people. But it'll be fine due to the fact that the land is updated and you have Golden Eyes, right?

09/11/2018 11:55Posted by Sylvare
And then I see how night elves get all this potential and see night elves whine about it and I'm like how can you not see that this is not the end of this story


When the start of it is done so poorly it will affect the end of it. The entire WoT events is rotten to the core and it makes no sense how and why it happened/ And the fact they can contradict themselves so much in their sources just makes me scratch my head at how was it possible.

My problem doesn't come from the fact that it happened, it is the way it happened. And I can't wait to see once this is all over and the Night Elves just "forgive" you again. We'll probably give you Ashenvale in the peace because whenever the Alliance wins we end up losing more land from it.

And no, this isn't worth having a zone update for this.
PREACH
Ahhh yes, the ends justifie the means right?

In storytelling, yes.
Doesn't matter if they are genocided, their old cities and people go to the other side, their lands in ruins and the list goes on and on. But because we now have the spotlight and a new customization option it is going to be fine right?
Again you're assuming this is all there will be for the rest of the expansion, I'm not sure if you've paid any attention this expansion but the story is something they're dedicated too and technically, if your lore is expanded on and your character isn't force deleted because of a 'genocide' then actually yes, it's going to be fine. They didn't place a warfront there because they forgot about elves.
Would you still have this opinion if it was done to the race you enjoy the most in one of the worst ways possible? Or would you be just as sad as every Night Elf fan currently?
I would still be of this opinion because !@#$ yes, they're doing something with the race I like, finally, %^-*.

Perhaps we can march into your lands and burn down Silvermoon. Destroy your main army again and kill its people. But it'll be fine due to the fact that the land is updated and you have Golden Eyes, right?
Yes, exactly. Altho before that happens they'd first need a warfront in Quel'Thalas but if I'm really honest? they'll probably do absolutely nothing with it and keep it an old map part of the TBC and maybe, just maybe, in 2 or 3 expansions from now, if WoW even lasts that long, maybe they'll do something with Quel'Thalas.

With that in mind, why the hell are you complaining?

When the start of it is done so poorly it will affect the end of it. The entire WoT events is rotten to the core and it makes no sense how and why it happened/ And the fact they can contradict themselves so much in their sources just makes me scratch my head at how was it possible.
Like which, exactly? I can't argue claims without context.
Also, wether or not it is done poorly is a matter of perspective, it could have been better and sure it wasn't something you'd expect from Tolkien but was still miles ahead of what we're used to from Blizzard.

My problem doesn't come from the fact that it happened, it is the way it happened. And I can't wait to see once this is all over and the Night Elves just "forgive" you again. We'll probably give you Ashenvale in the peace because whenever the Alliance wins we end up losing more land from it.
Okay so basically what you are doing is you already have a general idea of what is going to happen, that general idea is somewhat affected by your own opinions on things, this is all fine, but then you assume that this is what Blizzard will do and then kind of blame it on them by not assuming they'll do anything more with it?
And no, this isn't worth having a zone update for this.
Legit question; why would you do a zone update for anything that's less interesting? unless there's going to be a war in that region hardly anything will change enough to warrant a zone update.

I get the apprehension for the future, but I highly doubt this is where it will stay.
I also state people are foolish to identify with an ingame race so strongly that they become biased towards a specific outcome towards that race, which set expectations that will ruin any story because it's author all of a sudden needs to be politically correct about it because , what if Frozenshadows from Silvermoon won't like it?!

Might be a bit exagerated that last sentance but you get my message I hope
12/11/2018 11:42Posted by Sylvare
In storytelling, yes.


So everything that has happened to the Night Elves to this point is now made worth because of the Night Warriors... Right..

12/11/2018 11:42Posted by Sylvare
Again you're assuming this is all there will be for the rest of the expansion, I'm not sure if you've paid any attention this expansion but the story is something they're dedicated too and technically, if your lore is expanded on and your character isn't force deleted because of a 'genocide' then actually yes, it's going to be fine. They didn't place a warfront there because they forgot about elves.


I have no faith in the current team working on the story for anything to get better and I have given them the benefit of the doubt with the prepatch and 8.0. 8.1 was awful and I am glad it is getting changes to make it better but there are still aspects of it which are awful.

It is possible that there is more development to be had but I can't see that happening really, 8.2 is Najatar and unless this faction war ends next expansion the 8.3 is most likely Old Gods. This leaves the War campaign to wrap this all up. Ye I can't see this ending good at all.

12/11/2018 11:42Posted by Sylvare
I would still be of this opinion because !@#$ yes, they're doing something with the race I like, finally, %^-*.


Change for the sake of it isn't good. If it was done good and in the correct way then I would be fine with it (for the most part) but it wasn't. New customization options and a section of a zone rework isn't worth having everything that has happened in the WoT.

12/11/2018 11:42Posted by Sylvare
Yes, exactly. Altho before that happens they'd first need a warfront in Quel'Thalas but if I'm really honest? they'll probably do absolutely nothing with it and keep it an old map part of the TBC and maybe, just maybe, in 2 or 3 expansions from now, if WoW even lasts that long, maybe they'll do something with Quel'Thalas.

With that in mind, why the hell are you complaining?


Just a comparison considering you are a Blood Elf. If the story happened the other way round and the injustices of the WoT was to be placed on the Blood Elves or any Horde race that we would have this same type of reaction from said faction.

12/11/2018 11:42Posted by Sylvare
Like which, exactly? I can't argue claims without context.
Also, wether or not it is done poorly is a matter of perspective, it could have been better and sure it wasn't something you'd expect from Tolkien but was still miles ahead of what we're used to from Blizzard.


Lets take what Saurfang did at the Burning of Teldrassil as a example should we? If you want some context to it.

Elegy/Good War - He is running around the beach tell the Horde to stop firing at Teldrassil.
Warbringers - He is nowhere to be found and Sylvanas stands alone.
Old Soldier Cinematic - He confronts Sylvanas about how there is no honor in this.
In-game - He walks off with Sylvanas and Nathanos.

I mean you could put all these together, but then it comes across as more patchy than a abomination.

How about Ashenvale instead?

In-game/Wowpedia - The entirety of Ashenvale was taken by the Horde, the garrisons/civilians living in Ashenvale were all killed

Eledy/Good war - It was just a blitzkrieg through Ashenvale where they got repelled at almost every base.

Just 2 examples. I don't expect perfection and amazing story telling, but I expect 2 sources of information released weeks apart from each other to have consistency within the story they are trying to tell. And this is the main reason why I hate it.

Not that it happened, but how it was told.

12/11/2018 11:42Posted by Sylvare
Okay so basically what you are doing is you already have a general idea of what is going to happen, that general idea is somewhat affected by your own opinions on things, this is all fine, but then you assume that this is what Blizzard will do and then kind of blame it on them by not assuming they'll do anything more with it?


Blizzard has stated this is the last faction war. You can get a solid idea of what will happen towards the end. And I doubt that factions will be broken up because Allied Races seem to be against this idea. The last faction war peace despite the Alliance winning we lost more of just everything because of it.

This war will end and I am dreading it. How anyone will forgive the Forsaken and Sylvanas I have no idea, the Night Elves and Orcs, Mag'har Orcs and Draenei and so on. The last faction war people were annoyed about, now what do you think will happen when this one ends?

12/11/2018 11:42Posted by Sylvare
Legit question; why would you do a zone update for anything that's less interesting? unless there's going to be a war in that region hardly anything will change enough to warrant a zone update.


Don't really get this part, there is fights going on everywhere. Hillsbrad and Silverpine there is invasions and fighting happening in the region. We haven't had a update to reflect Gilneas being under control of the Alliance and so on.

Altho' I do expect to have another 1-60 questing revamp in the next prepatch.

12/11/2018 11:42Posted by Sylvare
I get the apprehension for the future, but I highly doubt this is where it will stay.
I also state people are foolish to identify with an ingame race so strongly that they become biased towards a specific outcome towards that race, which set expectations that will ruin any story because it's author all of a sudden needs to be politically correct about it because , what if Frozenshadows from Silvermoon won't like it?!


I put a good story before the race I play, but I will admit that I am going to be bias towards the Night Elves because that is my main race I like to play. I think everyone is bias to their preferred race to any extent.

But like before I just want a good story (at least WoW's level of a good story) and I do not see that happening currently and a good chuck of that comes from how the Night Elves have been treated in the WoT. I am not saying they are the only ones to have it. I mean a lot of the Horde characters in my eyes have been ruined and butchered just so we can have Sylvanas doing whatever she wants unchallenged but as far as races go the Night Elves have had it waaaaaaaay worse than any other race. And a mini zone update and new customization option doesn't balance it out. Especially when the outcome I dread for them will most likely be reality.
Even though I lean more towards the Alliance side due to it not allowing villains in its ranks I tend to play both sides equally, what´s why it´s hard for me to feel any pride towards either of them.

Maybe the closest moment was at the Siege of Orgrimmar, where Varian did what I think was the most sensible thing in Alliance history and forgave the Horde but at the same time threatened them with extermination if they once again followed a warmonger.
We've been the punching bag ever since WotLK. Still are and will be.
Horde has bigger playerbase, Blizz gotta make sure they are happy so they cater. They will always get the spotlight, will always win everything and get away with everything. Because they have the numbers = make the most money with their subs.
Does it count if I feel pride for the Church?
of Greymane.
12/11/2018 13:23Posted by Sòlry
We've been the punching bag ever since WotLK. Still are and will be.
Horde has bigger playerbase, Blizz gotta make sure they are happy so they cater. They will always get the spotlight, will always win everything and get away with everything. Because they have the numbers = make the most money with their subs.


Facepalm
I felt faction pride when I was doing the quests in Southern Barrens on my human warrior. Even though our commander was slain and we suffered loses, we fought till the end and were not defeated.
I felt faction pride during the Broken Shore invasion when I fought side by side with Varian Wrynn.
I felt faction pride when I followed Genn Greymane during his Stormheim campaign (on all my characters but especially on my Worgen rogue).
As a Kaldorei I felt proud to be a Night Elf during SoO, when Tyrande accompanied by a squad of her Sentinels (after reclaiming Ashenvale - sadly it has never been shown in game) destroyed the orcish troops and made it possible for us to progress further in the raid.
I felt pride of playing a Night Elf after seeing the Terror of Darkshore cinematic. I have rewatched it countless times and I finally found the motivation to level up my remaining NE alts so that they're ready for retaking their lands.
Also, I feel great whenever I'm playing a Kaldorei char and I'm listening to the Nightsong. No matter how Blizzard humiliates the race, this always works for me.
No matter how Blizzard -humiliates- does not show the race as gods,


Seriously that's what most night elf fan complains seems to be about.
12/11/2018 21:02Posted by Durlan
No matter how Blizzard -humiliates- does not show the race as gods,


Seriously that's what most night elf fan complains seems to be about.


I don't see what this message has to do with the topic of the thread, nor with my reply. I did not complain at all in this post, and honestly, I am one of those who'd rather stop playing WoW than play it and not enjoy it at all.

In my reply I just said what many people seem to think aswell, I did not go on about what I dislike in latest story, or story at all. You simply ignored that I said I do enjoy playing my NE characters, regardless of Blizzard's treatment of the race. You chose and highlighted one word... just take your ignorance away.
09/11/2018 11:55Posted by Sylvare
Stop pretending like they're going to delete your race, be happy it's getting a spot in the highlights, obviously the fact that this was done to the night elves means they plan on doing something with the night elves.


What if that something is !@#$, though? You saw how hard the Horde whined when Blizz decided to set the final dungeon of an entire expansion in their faction capital - what if something similar happens to the Night Elves? What if Blizz are going to take the most unqiue and caharcterful race Warcraft has produced thus far, and turn them into a bowdlerised, whiny emo version of Warhammer's Wood Elves?

Personally I'm looking forward to Quel'Thalas being under attack as a warfront because holy !@#$ maybe now we'll actually see a new version of it.


You say this now, but two weeks after the patch it'll be "Ermagerd Blizz why you hate Horde so much why didn't we auto-win Quel'thalas Blizz pls"

Then Blizzard will nerf Alliance racials again and next Blizzcon there'll be a slide in their presentation that says "Sorry Horde - lol alliance".

And then I see how night elves get all this potential and see night elves whine about it and I'm like how can you not see that this is not the end of this story


See point 1. It might not be the end of the story, but that doesn't mean it's going somewhere good.
I feel enormous pride than i made it against any adversity and longer than anyone, i assured the safety of the prince , chased the kingdm of the draconic impostor, killed that tool of junk elf kae thas twice and gave a smackdown on that kaldorei idiot.

I killed the lich king and all his army , killed deathwing, destoyed the horde in their hometown and gave a smackdown to hellscream, became a chose of dyn in legion, saved and cleansed ordaeron from it's corruption and annihilated the wannabe forsakens and easily , i also slaughtered those dumb trolls like one take a lolipop from a child.

On top of all that all the people that tryed to get the best of me and to compare ,junk elves, kaldorei , forsakens , orcs, spacegoat,trolls the list goes on i saw then get annihilated and suffer and get humilliated in my play time and i killed on my two main char over 500 000 and for twelve years , some even begged to get sparred and stil died , i've abslutely no regret and got nearly all TCG stuff without money too.

and now than thing in game and story wise don't fullfill my fantasy and expectations i will have the pleasure of seeing the sub number ges even lower , turn my vest again until it please me and see both kaldorei and forsakens and that tool of orc kill each thers and suffer/get killed/zombified without lifting a finger.

For the master race, the Lions house of the Strormwind, i would redo everything the same.
So everything that has happened to the Night Elves to this point is now made worth because of the Night Warriors... Right..
I get how it's a very attractive tactics to put words in another persons mouth and combat those words you put in anothers mouth because hey you know to argue the words you put in my mouth but if you reread my text I didn't even mention the night warriors anywhere.

Your method of debate is imho reprehensible, I did not bother to read the rest because I fear that this one response is an indication for what is to follow, I hope I'm wrong.

13/11/2018 01:05Posted by Owlsong
What if that something is !@#$, though? You saw how hard the Horde whined when Blizz decided to set the final dungeon of an entire expansion in their faction capital
That wasn't exactly well received either unfortionately, but I loved it. People were like "oh no we're horde collapsing in on eachother how will we ever recover from this" and now we're like what 3 expacs later and where is the horde? oh right, it still exists, that means that all of those people from back then were complaining about nothing.

Granted that's a really simple way of putting it, but if the tables are turned, suggesting by what happened with the world tree, would the alliance not have responded the same to a stormwind raid as they did to the world tree burning down?

what if something similar happens to the Night Elves? What if Blizz are going to take the most unqiue and caharcterful race Warcraft has produced thus far, and turn them into a bowdlerised, whiny emo version of Warhammer's Wood Elves?in all honesty, all we can do, is hope they won't do that. There is no guarantee for it, however to come into this war expansion and to say "hey man these acts of war don't feel right" is just, man, what do you want them to do? fill the expacs story with attempts at peace treaties?

What I believe (and what I for that reason assume) is that the night elves will have the tree back before the end of the expac.

Also, what is not exciting about this? the deeper you drown the harder you can make a comeback. I could see night elves lashing out in anger after licking their wounds and we had that 8.1 cinematic for the warfront which basically captured what I thought was going to go down perfectly. I got goosebumps from that and I don't even play a night elf

You say this now, but two weeks after the patch it'll be "Ermagerd Blizz why you hate Horde so much why didn't we auto-win Quel'thalas Blizz pls"
For some, undoubtedly, I'll be sure to give them the same piece of my mind I've tried to give people here on that matter, don't worry tho. I'll be sitting there going YEEEEES

Then Blizzard will nerf Alliance racials again and next Blizzcon there'll be a slide in their presentation that says "Sorry Horde - lol alliance".
It's easy to see a corelation in anything, but it's not happy. To assume the story will be affected because of a game mechanics nerf..? Man.

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