The truth of Wrathgate, at last.

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12/11/2018 15:13Posted by Sylanna
11/11/2018 11:19Posted by Frozenshadow

The Alliance pawn part is so over-exaggerated, wow Anduin gave Saurfang the choice to do whatever he wants. It isn't like Anduin has gave him financial support, military aid, allowed volunteers to go with him or anything inbetween. He freed him from prison.

And it does affect the argument, I no longer get to see Sylvanas supports say Saurfang is a traitor for far less than what she has done. And this also smashes the whole "Sylvanas does everything for the Horde" sh*te right in pieces so I no longer have to deal with that circle-jerk anymore unless people want to properly show their hypocrisy.

But naaa, here is a picture of these "traitors" in their full glory as they went against their warchiefs desires.

They would then mean he's dead soon too

I miss Cairne.
Sylvanus if she knew about it and did nothing the one person thats going to kill her for sure is Bolvar. He has the tools and is just binding his time I think to strike at her.
I'm going to chalk this one down as a mistake as literally nothing makes sense regarding Sylvanas either directly sanctioning or having knowledge of Wrathgate. What was there for her to gain from it? A pot-shot at the Lich King with the blight? Wouldn't gamble both the Horde and Alliance coming for you for that.

And we know that Putress was in liege with Varimathras who launched a coup at the same time that almost killed her. I don't know if this is a retcon, if it is then whatever; makes as much sense as everything else that's going on in the story.
12/11/2018 12:46Posted by Zarao
Why fight her undead/blood magic villainy if we can go against Bolvar and the Sanlayn?
You mean the San'layn she recruited into the Alliance and was a major focus of the Alliance war campaign? Well, the Alliance did systematically eliminate all of them present - though at great cost.

As for Bolvar… it still canon that his existence is unknown to the vast majority of people in Azeroth?
12/11/2018 17:51Posted by Elyssarain
As for Bolvar… it still canon that his existence is unknown to the vast majority of people in Azeroth?

Even my grandma knows by now that Bolvar is the Lich King...
12/11/2018 18:10Posted by Anthropea
Even my grandma knows by now that Bolvar is the Lich King...

In that case, you -could- go to Icecrown but people have a tendency to not return back from there \o\ Bolvar hasn't technically done much wrong either, keeping the Scourge in check. Even if we pin the red dragon massacre solely on Bolvar, it's still much less than Sylvanas' Horde at the moment.
12/11/2018 16:15Posted by Dudas
You missed the point where:

Durotan opposed Gul'dan. But he didn't start talking with humans to ally himself with them against the Horde. He was banished from the Horde. Later he was assassinated.

You miss the point. Anduin and Saurfang didn't ally with each other. Unless this is some new rule I have never heard of that releasing prisoners mean you ally with them.

12/11/2018 16:15Posted by Dudas
Ogrim used mak'gora to get the leadership of the Horde. Again he didn't run to the Alliance to settle internal conflicts.

Neither did Saurfang, and Orgim only did it once Gul'dan was in a coma because he was scared to face him. Much like the reason why Saurfang can't do it because Sylvanas won't play by the books.

12/11/2018 16:15Posted by Dudas
Cairne died in mak'gora when he didn't agree with Garrosh.

Indeed, but he can still be considered a traitor to falsely accuse the Warchief and challenge him to a duel to the death.

12/11/2018 16:15Posted by Dudas
Vol'jin was banished from the Horde also. The darkspear clan was under martial law.

How does this change anything?

12/11/2018 16:15Posted by Dudas
So we have an example of a leader that didn't agree with the warchief but still wanted to support the Horde. Plus diplomacy with Lor'themar and trying to get the blood elves on his side. He didn't need Anduin or Varian approval or stayed crying like a !@#$%. He valued the Horde and tried to keep it united and strong.

...Much like when Saurfang reluctantly agreed to Sylvanas about going to war with the Alliance? Right?

12/11/2018 16:15Posted by Dudas
And now we are at Saurfang.
First time he had the chance to declare mak'gora but refused because he had no reason to.

I could just use your argument and say it was for the betterment of the Horde right?

12/11/2018 16:15Posted by Dudas
2nd time: When the Horde rescues him. Yet he decides to do nothing AGAIN.

They didn't go to rescue him. He refused to go and brought time for the Horde members in the Stockades to escape.

12/11/2018 16:15Posted by Dudas
Hey I guess 3rd time is the charm... Somehow all the other mentioned leaders didn't need chance after chance after chance to do what they think is right for the Horde. They didn't need to talk with Alliance first to take action.

Neither did Saurfang, all Anduin did was make him confront what is going on. Saurfang would have come to that conclusion regardless of Anduin's intervention. All what you can argue is how long it would have taken.

12/11/2018 16:15Posted by Dudas
So yes tell me more about "traitors" cause at the moment we have a racial leader that wanted his faction to lose battles, one that spared two Alliance leaders when he had the chance to kill them and assure victories in those battles if not the war itself.

He wants the Horde to be what it is meant to be, the Horde. Not the Scourge 2.0.

Sure it can be considered dumb that he spared Malfurion and I do find the "no honor in the axe throw" stupid. It is just a example of bad writing to take Malfurion and Tyrande out of the picture.

I am not going to defend that, but I am going to defend what the Horde is meant to be. Why it was formed and kept going despite everything thrown at it.

12/11/2018 16:15Posted by Dudas
Somehow all the other didn't have this "I kill my enemies in moderation when I want to" dumb ^-* mentality.

They should just give him a new title already.
Saurfang< I spare my enemies for no reason in the wars I plan and agree with High WARLORD >

Better than Sylvanas still.

How does it make you feel now that she purposely killed you just to try and take Arthas out? Why do you follow your Warchief when she just doesn't care about you and you are nothing more than cannonfodder for her survival?

What a inspiring leader. To have both mindless slaves from within the game and outside of it defending her despite everything she has done.
Alliance cult is even worse than the Sylvanas fans at this rate.

Do you think there is a special basement where they plot against the Alliance fanbase?

I just want to know how bad it has gotten before I invest in Tin Foil.

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